Actually, I have heard it for myself, have two identical sets of drivers here -- one with the treatment, one without. And yes, I am blind -- totally nblind -- as in no light perception in either eye and thus am not fooled by seeing patterns of dots, fancy cabinets, exotic designs, whatever, I rely strictly on what I hear with my ears, which I'd wager are far more tuned into my surroundings than those of most others.
Next?
-- JR
Next?
-- JR
Nordic said:
Come on - I never said that! I said painting dots on a baffle will not make the cabinet baffle effects disappear! Where am I calling anyone a liar? A fool?
Maybe we are getting off on the wrong foot...
But surely you have to understand if you say what people claim to be hearing is make believe, you may as well say they are lieing...
Why not try to investigate it... ? find the answer... insert $2 here....
But surely you have to understand if you say what people claim to be hearing is make believe, you may as well say they are lieing...
Why not try to investigate it... ? find the answer... insert $2 here....
Magnetar said:
My experience in using various patterns is that if applied properly, there is significant improvement in the spectral decay. This itself does provide much cleaner sound and presenting more detail. In many cases there is some change in phase which shows up as changing in a phase lead direction, one driver data I have posted some time ago, and which suggests probably the wave somehow might be leaving the surface earlier than without the pattern, whether or not this will make the box disappear depends on the driver off-axis response.
Just putting out some personal experience, and not trying to convince anyone.
Zen Mod said:
Will someone please explain to me how the dots erase the effects of the baffle and I'll go kindly away. I can except the truth. Can you?
Thanks
I would place a rectangle on the front baffle, Another on the top and bottom and a seperate line down the middle of both long side panels. You will likely end up placing horizontal lines of blocks across the front baffle, between the woofers and high frequency driver.
Lot of blocks of acrylic paint, but should make the box disappear, through lack of diffraction effects and surface ringing. The mid side line of blocks will set the depth of field to behind the boxes, from a perception stand point.
soongsc said:
Thanks, what box are you talking about and hat pattern did you use to eliminate the baffle effects?
Apparently, no amount of explanation is going to convince you and seeing as you are completely unwilling to even try the experiment for yourself -- and "haven't even started on the drivers yet", then the only explanation is that you are either a troll or blessed with such a superior intellect that complex fluid mechanics problems can be easily simulated without empirical studies.
I'm going with the former and therefore won't waste anymore of my time either.
-- JR
I'm going with the former and therefore won't waste anymore of my time either.
-- JR
jrebman said:
Actually I have somewhat of an understanding of what happens to a sound wave when it goes from half space to free space, and I have somewhat of an understanding of edge diffraction means and how it happens. Now to know this and then to say these effects are erased by changing the 'loading' of the microscopic boundary layer of air on the surface of the baffle is plain wrong. If this was the case I could take a horn, paint it with dots and eliminate the longitudinal effects of the horn or baffle with them.
I think "baffle effects" might mean different things here to different parties.
Baffle effects may include baffle step diffraction that is routinely compensated for in a crossover. Baffle effects also include the intermodulation distortion resulting from reflections off of cabinet & driver edges. Additional effects include the change in speed of sound as it progresses across different materials; ie. Paper, rubber, metal or composites and wood or whatever the baffle is made of.
I don’t think EnABL is represented as totally eliminating baffle step. I think the “disappearing act” Bud refers to is an elimination of some of those things that baffles add to the intended signal.
Until you have heard it (or not), one is unable to respond to the question: “How much is gone?” This question remains until a method is devised to measure things that up to now were not well understood (at least by me).
What does exist is the testimony of users who may not care as much for how it measures.
Baffle effects may include baffle step diffraction that is routinely compensated for in a crossover. Baffle effects also include the intermodulation distortion resulting from reflections off of cabinet & driver edges. Additional effects include the change in speed of sound as it progresses across different materials; ie. Paper, rubber, metal or composites and wood or whatever the baffle is made of.
I don’t think EnABL is represented as totally eliminating baffle step. I think the “disappearing act” Bud refers to is an elimination of some of those things that baffles add to the intended signal.
Until you have heard it (or not), one is unable to respond to the question: “How much is gone?” This question remains until a method is devised to measure things that up to now were not well understood (at least by me).
What does exist is the testimony of users who may not care as much for how it measures.
Please see the tests on the JX92S earlier in this thread. Later I also posted two comparisons using a different pattern on a propietary driver, the pattern of which will not be anounced until product release to market. But if you can interpret the data presented on the JX92S, it is easy to see that the spectral decay is improved, although no attempt was made to achieve best pattern for best results. The phase change for test on the JX92S suggests that it will not benefit baffle edge diffraction performance for this particular driver.Magnetar said:
soongsc said:
Does the boundary layer stay put on the cone when it's operating or does it float in front of or behind the cone?
I don't think there is enough data to make a better judgement on this, but theoretically the pattern is supposed to change a laminar boundary layer to a turbulent boundary layer. How sound waves react to these boundary layers really need finite element type analysis or some other means of test. I have not studied this part yet. Hope someone else does.Magnetar said:
By the way, I think there has been other discussion on putting this pattern on speaker enclosures. I have not tried this, and do not plan to do so in the near future until I find some pattern that looks less like a special purpose pattern that combines some artistic flavor compatible with my designs. Theoretically it should work in a similar manner as locating a driver to a location on the baffle that minimizes baffle diffraction effects. That's one of the reasons why many speakers have drivers located at odd locations like my designs.😀
soongsc said:
I can't see how the boundary layer can stay stationary with an operating cone.
If that is the case then the transverse waves become longitude waves, as all sound waves appear in air.
Well the transverse waves are the cone vibration. The pattern is to break up the standing waves, and is the main reason for better spectral decay performance.Magnetar said:
soongsc said:
Hmm - to relate that back to painting the enclosure with a pattern and eliminating baffle effects or for the box to disappear is quite a bit different.
In your cone example you are speaking of energy being stored and released from a moving cone. I believe you are saying there is mechanical energy being released and absorbed with in the cone itself, not the layer of air on the surface of the cone correct?
The box has some energy storage too but I can not see how a couple of microns of paint is going to alter an inch of braced MDF.
Bud,
A few posts back you discussed Enabling a Tangband driver. Regarding the metal phase plug, would the conformal coat cover the entire phase plug or only the areas with the pattern rings?
A few posts back you discussed Enabling a Tangband driver. Regarding the metal phase plug, would the conformal coat cover the entire phase plug or only the areas with the pattern rings?
The same way a couple of bumps makes sharks swim faster and jets fly faster....
the boundary layer is anywhere there is movement... in fluids (which air is) when you stick your hand out the window while driving... even if you hold it sidewise the boundary layer will drag on it... sure there will also be some "pushing" against the surface area...
the boundary layer is anywhere there is movement... in fluids (which air is) when you stick your hand out the window while driving... even if you hold it sidewise the boundary layer will drag on it... sure there will also be some "pushing" against the surface area...
- Status
- Not open for further replies.