chrisb
Poor you!!!.... there are at least three more paradigm shifts, all of about the same caliber, give or take a few inches of diameter, just sitting here waiting for your arrival.
You might want to consider leaving the boxed Fostex drivers for EnABL treatment to the mounting face. Then pick them up, as you head back to the security fencing that normally keeps you foreigners from disturbing our myopia, the following day.
Hartono,
Sounds like a good plan. May I help by providing a correct diameter pattern that matches with your cone diameter? Keep in mind that the acrylic paint will squish out to a larger shape than the stamp, so some experiments will be needed.
Bud
Poor you!!!.... there are at least three more paradigm shifts, all of about the same caliber, give or take a few inches of diameter, just sitting here waiting for your arrival.
You might want to consider leaving the boxed Fostex drivers for EnABL treatment to the mounting face. Then pick them up, as you head back to the security fencing that normally keeps you foreigners from disturbing our myopia, the following day.
Hartono,
Sounds like a good plan. May I help by providing a correct diameter pattern that matches with your cone diameter? Keep in mind that the acrylic paint will squish out to a larger shape than the stamp, so some experiments will be needed.
Bud
Bud/Hartono
I've als reworked the hints of Bud into a method to dermine the pattern for a given diameter (and convert from circular pattern to a template required for a real speaker cone due to the cone shape). I need outer and inner diameter of the cone and also the distance a long the cone from surround to dustcap.
I've als reworked the hints of Bud into a method to dermine the pattern for a given diameter (and convert from circular pattern to a template required for a real speaker cone due to the cone shape). I need outer and inner diameter of the cone and also the distance a long the cone from surround to dustcap.
hi Bud, Lama,
thanks for your offer
the one I first shown at the store is without whizzer cone, and when they give me a new unused one , exact part number, I didn't open the enclosure (for mounting on ceiling) I just tried it and surprised that it sounds much cleaner and much better at the same price, so I just take it
so I'm surprised that it had whizzer
, this would be a bit hard to apply the pattern.
anyway here are the measurements:
the diameter of the cone is 127 mm.
distance from whizzer bottom to the cone surround is 60 mm
the whizzer is thin and have flat edge
diameter is 40 mm outer edge
inner edge is 36 mm
whizzer inner edge to the inner cone(bottom whizzer cone) is 15 mm
inner dome diameter is 17mm
this would be very hard experiment
PS: come to think of it, maybe the one I originally tried at the store might have whizzer , I don't know.......anyway it sound's ok
Hartono
thanks for your offer
the one I first shown at the store is without whizzer cone, and when they give me a new unused one , exact part number, I didn't open the enclosure (for mounting on ceiling) I just tried it and surprised that it sounds much cleaner and much better at the same price, so I just take it
so I'm surprised that it had whizzer
, this would be a bit hard to apply the pattern.anyway here are the measurements:
the diameter of the cone is 127 mm.
distance from whizzer bottom to the cone surround is 60 mm
the whizzer is thin and have flat edge
diameter is 40 mm outer edge
inner edge is 36 mm
whizzer inner edge to the inner cone(bottom whizzer cone) is 15 mm
inner dome diameter is 17mm
this would be very hard experiment
PS: come to think of it, maybe the one I originally tried at the store might have whizzer , I don't know.......anyway it sound's ok
Hartono
I've tried to come up with a template for the large cone, the dimensions of the wizzer are quite curious (or my script just f*cked up)
BTW it's 1:1 scale on A4 paper
edit due to the steep slope of the wizzer I cannot manage to put in the enable pattern with the guidelines given (height of block is related to the width and radius of the template, which with a very slender cone just renders an impossible pattern, at least for the amateur
)
BTW it's 1:1 scale on A4 paper
edit due to the steep slope of the wizzer I cannot manage to put in the enable pattern with the guidelines given (height of block is related to the width and radius of the template, which with a very slender cone just renders an impossible pattern, at least for the amateur
)
BudP said:
You are talking about EnABLEing the baffle? I was hoping we'd get some input on that. Chris will be bringing a finished pair of Fonkens and autility pair for the drivers you have in hand... pictures & plans are here if you'd like to think about it in advance.
http://planet10-hifi.com/fonken.html
dave
Bud - the 2 pairs of boxes we planned on bringing for comparisons are the bevel fronted design with symmetrical port slots along the sides, as shown at the top of the page.
You might want to take a look at these and the more conventional flat front GR design posted lower. If we are correctly anticipating that you're considering applying EnAbl patterns to the enclosure front baffles, would the latter better demonstrate the intended improvements? FWIW, there's probably room in the trunk for all 3.
as for beverages for the listening session (to be consumed after wielding of soldering iron and screw drivers, of course) ; domestic or imported?
You might want to take a look at these and the more conventional flat front GR design posted lower. If we are correctly anticipating that you're considering applying EnAbl patterns to the enclosure front baffles, would the latter better demonstrate the intended improvements? FWIW, there's probably room in the trunk for all 3.
as for beverages for the listening session (to be consumed after wielding of soldering iron and screw drivers, of course) ; domestic or imported?
Chris and Dave,
I am offering to treat the front baffles. The angled Baffle boxes will be fine and if you like we can do that first and you can see how easy it is. All just depends upon the time you want to spend and what you want to do.
You can get quite extreme with the box patterning and it is useful in removing the edge diffractions. I will leave further box face treatment up to you guys and your customers.
I will say that one side only EnABL'd drivers do not need to have more than the front face treated. Drivers that have patterns on both sides, a difficult thing to accomplish, have transient performance that responds well to a pattern treatment on all box faces. The box actually impacts how much information the drivers can get into the room and a fully treated EnABL driver is so sensitive that this boundary layer impedance on the box surfaces, and the lack of storage resonances, becomes important.
At this point box interiors also become extremely important. Where you put damping material, what type, how much, how the undamped walls are treated, all become very audible when both sides of a driver are treated with patterns and gloss coat.
You are not faced with this in these Fostex drivers, only the front surface has been dealt, with so that you may bring your own expertise with these devices to the party.
As for liquids, I am unfortunate in my response to alchoholic beverages and much as I like the taste of a good Lager or table wine, I can only consume small amounts before becomming tipsy. So I rarely drink in public and even more rarely in private. Twice a year with 8 ounces of wine is about my limit. So what ever you like best should be what you choose.
Bud
I am offering to treat the front baffles. The angled Baffle boxes will be fine and if you like we can do that first and you can see how easy it is. All just depends upon the time you want to spend and what you want to do.
You can get quite extreme with the box patterning and it is useful in removing the edge diffractions. I will leave further box face treatment up to you guys and your customers.
I will say that one side only EnABL'd drivers do not need to have more than the front face treated. Drivers that have patterns on both sides, a difficult thing to accomplish, have transient performance that responds well to a pattern treatment on all box faces. The box actually impacts how much information the drivers can get into the room and a fully treated EnABL driver is so sensitive that this boundary layer impedance on the box surfaces, and the lack of storage resonances, becomes important.
At this point box interiors also become extremely important. Where you put damping material, what type, how much, how the undamped walls are treated, all become very audible when both sides of a driver are treated with patterns and gloss coat.
You are not faced with this in these Fostex drivers, only the front surface has been dealt, with so that you may bring your own expertise with these devices to the party.
As for liquids, I am unfortunate in my response to alchoholic beverages and much as I like the taste of a good Lager or table wine, I can only consume small amounts before becomming tipsy. So I rarely drink in public and even more rarely in private. Twice a year with 8 ounces of wine is about my limit. So what ever you like best should be what you choose.
Bud
I am wondering what to do with the edge of the whizzers on FE206E / FE207E. They don't have the folded back rim the lowthers have.
should the outer row of blocks be right on the edge? or a block width back from the edge. I apologise of this has been asked before, I might have missed it.
I wonder if removing small amounts of material from the edge of the whizzer will have a similar effect, I am thinking small scallops cut out with a paper punch using the mambont blocks as a guide. About the shape and proportions of the mouth from the smiley face
should the outer row of blocks be right on the edge? or a block width back from the edge. I apologise of this has been asked before, I might have missed it.
I wonder if removing small amounts of material from the edge of the whizzer will have a similar effect, I am thinking small scallops cut out with a paper punch using the mambont blocks as a guide. About the shape and proportions of the mouth from the smiley face
OzMikeH,
I don't think I would remove any material from the whizzer. Having said that, I would love to know what a saw tooth whizzer that has a non repetitive pattern size would do. Please do not do this, I will find some cheap junk to work on, just to see what might happen.
I recommend that the pattern be at least one row width from the end of the whizzer. You are essentially going to be balancing impedances here. You add impedance with a pattern and selectively cut it back with the gloss coat. This means that a thicker gloss coat on the main cone will "suck" energy from the whizzer. I would also recommend that the lower ring on the whizzer cone be about 1/3 of the way up the cone from the voice coil joint. This will help to kill the whizzer resonance mode. See the pics and graphs in the two pages below and pay close attention to how far out onto the cone the lower ring set is. I, by default, used this exact position for the main cone lower ring set for the Lowthers I have treated to date.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1231568#post1231568
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1231856#post1231856
While I am sure soongsc will wince at the lack of rigorous testing to find the optimal spot for this lower ring, to allow maximum suppression of the major resonance as he shows in f his fabulous earlier postings, that 1/3 up distance seems to be fairly generic for whizzer cones.
If you already have a lower ring applied do not fret. You can add another ring set, on either inside or outside of the whizzer if the thing still resonates with the final ring applied. What you do to one side of the cone will strongly control the other side's surface characteristics
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1191987#post1191987
The picture shown at the above page in this thread, is of a Fostex driver. The pattern was not particularly carefully applied, with respect to number of block sets, or ring spacing, but the owner reported excellent results on this previously C37 treated cone. He did not attempt to reduce resonant modes vis a vis where the lower ring was placed, but insisted that the sound was noticeably clearer and much easier to listen to.
I point this out just to help remove performance anxiety, as you will get a very good improvement in clarity and ease of portrayal, no matter what you do.
I will be treating a ledge less Lowther shortly and posting pics and results, if you want to wait, but really I think you will be in fine shape.
Bud
I don't think I would remove any material from the whizzer. Having said that, I would love to know what a saw tooth whizzer that has a non repetitive pattern size would do. Please do not do this, I will find some cheap junk to work on, just to see what might happen.
I recommend that the pattern be at least one row width from the end of the whizzer. You are essentially going to be balancing impedances here. You add impedance with a pattern and selectively cut it back with the gloss coat. This means that a thicker gloss coat on the main cone will "suck" energy from the whizzer. I would also recommend that the lower ring on the whizzer cone be about 1/3 of the way up the cone from the voice coil joint. This will help to kill the whizzer resonance mode. See the pics and graphs in the two pages below and pay close attention to how far out onto the cone the lower ring set is. I, by default, used this exact position for the main cone lower ring set for the Lowthers I have treated to date.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1231568#post1231568
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1231856#post1231856
While I am sure soongsc will wince at the lack of rigorous testing to find the optimal spot for this lower ring, to allow maximum suppression of the major resonance as he shows in f his fabulous earlier postings, that 1/3 up distance seems to be fairly generic for whizzer cones.
If you already have a lower ring applied do not fret. You can add another ring set, on either inside or outside of the whizzer if the thing still resonates with the final ring applied. What you do to one side of the cone will strongly control the other side's surface characteristics
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1191987#post1191987
The picture shown at the above page in this thread, is of a Fostex driver. The pattern was not particularly carefully applied, with respect to number of block sets, or ring spacing, but the owner reported excellent results on this previously C37 treated cone. He did not attempt to reduce resonant modes vis a vis where the lower ring was placed, but insisted that the sound was noticeably clearer and much easier to listen to.
I point this out just to help remove performance anxiety, as you will get a very good improvement in clarity and ease of portrayal, no matter what you do.
I will be treating a ledge less Lowther shortly and posting pics and results, if you want to wait, but really I think you will be in fine shape.
Bud
Hartono,
Here is my entry in your cone ring competition. Please let me know just how poorly it fits. I am a bit unclear about the inner cone dimension so I used 40 mm and that may be enough to throw it all off as it is a 4 pole interactive balancing act in the lisp routine. This upload is on an A4 page size. If you need a standard US letter size let me know as I have one of those also.
LaMa,
Nice work on your script. May I ask what program it runs in? Would a copy of the code in the EnABL Auto Cad Lisp routine help you in any way? You would need a copy of an auto cad lisp programming booklet, from any thing after Auto Cad nine, to translate the thing I think.
Ed,
Definitely a balancing act between cones. In the Lowthers, so far, the main cone provides for 35 to about 3k and then again above 7 k. The whizzer provides for in the middle and also out past 10 k, so that 7k to 10 k area can get a might hot.
So that means the coatings are not always across the whole cone either. I will get into this confusing bit in a few days. I have a Lowther PM6A set being treated and learned on and I will be posting the details as soon as I am finished and I think it cured and stable, in the two cone impedance dance. Quite intriguing to deal with.
Bud
Here is my entry in your cone ring competition. Please let me know just how poorly it fits. I am a bit unclear about the inner cone dimension so I used 40 mm and that may be enough to throw it all off as it is a 4 pole interactive balancing act in the lisp routine. This upload is on an A4 page size. If you need a standard US letter size let me know as I have one of those also.
LaMa,
Nice work on your script. May I ask what program it runs in? Would a copy of the code in the EnABL Auto Cad Lisp routine help you in any way? You would need a copy of an auto cad lisp programming booklet, from any thing after Auto Cad nine, to translate the thing I think.
Ed,
Definitely a balancing act between cones. In the Lowthers, so far, the main cone provides for 35 to about 3k and then again above 7 k. The whizzer provides for in the middle and also out past 10 k, so that 7k to 10 k area can get a might hot.
So that means the coatings are not always across the whole cone either. I will get into this confusing bit in a few days. I have a Lowther PM6A set being treated and learned on and I will be posting the details as soon as I am finished and I think it cured and stable, in the two cone impedance dance. Quite intriguing to deal with.
Bud
It is most interesting that ther best spot has been found to be 1/3 of the way up...
Let's consider the outer pattern to be "zero",
the point the whizzer is bonded to the voice coil "1.618"
then the inner pattern would be positioned at "1"
I use this method to hang pictures on the wall where the floor is zero, since I started doing this the wife has never asked me to re-hang a picture. If it is close to the golden ratio I may as well try to place it precisely according to the ratio.
Let's consider the outer pattern to be "zero",
the point the whizzer is bonded to the voice coil "1.618"
then the inner pattern would be positioned at "1"
I use this method to hang pictures on the wall where the floor is zero, since I started doing this the wife has never asked me to re-hang a picture. If it is close to the golden ratio I may as well try to place it precisely according to the ratio.
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