Bud,
Looking at all the data, I am confinced that the mass distribution controls the frequency response and the pattern controls the phase response for metal cones. I beleive I've mentioned this earlier. If the cone was softer, then it would be a different case, and probably more difficult to tune if one uses process that cannot be undone.
Note that in one of my earlier posts, another JX92S had a different response above 6KHz, this will result in a different pattern.
Looking at all the data, I am confinced that the mass distribution controls the frequency response and the pattern controls the phase response for metal cones. I beleive I've mentioned this earlier. If the cone was softer, then it would be a different case, and probably more difficult to tune if one uses process that cannot be undone.
Note that in one of my earlier posts, another JX92S had a different response above 6KHz, this will result in a different pattern.
Hi SoongSc,
Your CSD on post #273 show very good improvement!! , When I looked at the one on post#255 it didn't look like much improvement happen, does this improvement came just by removing the pattern near the dust caps and putting 2 more layer in the middle part of the cone ?
Hi BudP,
"I am so glad that you did this. It is the most convincing activity I know of, to just apply the pattern and listen to how the sound changes as you apply it. What is lost and what shows up to take it's place. Then to realize nothing was really lost, or gained, it has just been redeployed by applying this powerful tool."
yes this was real eye (ear ? )opening for me, I used to gave up on full-range speaker for serious system, but this might change my mind. And it's amazing what it can do to lower cost paper fullrange, I guess it would be very beneficial for multiway system, by further reducing "cone noise". EDIT : "cone mode" might be more appropriate term here.
Hartono
Your CSD on post #273 show very good improvement!! , When I looked at the one on post#255 it didn't look like much improvement happen, does this improvement came just by removing the pattern near the dust caps and putting 2 more layer in the middle part of the cone ?
Hi BudP,
"I am so glad that you did this. It is the most convincing activity I know of, to just apply the pattern and listen to how the sound changes as you apply it. What is lost and what shows up to take it's place. Then to realize nothing was really lost, or gained, it has just been redeployed by applying this powerful tool."
yes this was real eye (ear ? )opening for me, I used to gave up on full-range speaker for serious system, but this might change my mind. And it's amazing what it can do to lower cost paper fullrange, I guess it would be very beneficial for multiway system, by further reducing "cone noise". EDIT : "cone mode" might be more appropriate term here.
Hartono
The previous posts were just to show how the pattern location effects phase, no attempt was made to tune the driver.Hartono said:
The current one was focused on tuning the driver. where 1mm difference makes a difference in the breakup modes and SPL response. Not as simple as it looks. The exact location of the patterns have changed.
el`Ol said:
If I'm not mistaken this is a bending wave transucer (compare to Manger, German Physiks) but in the NXT fashion. See e.g. the following llink
NXT tech paper
The whole EnABL procedure is very interesting, it's on my todo list. Also, when I've enabled a driver I can also perform some measurements (including CSD).
soongsc are you still using toothpaste for the pattern?
Some thoughts about the paint:
Although the type of paint is specified as a material in which sound propagates faster than in air, I assume that the most important part is that the enable pattern has significantly different properties when compared to the cone material. Such that the waves travelling parallel to the cone are disturbed by very by encountering very different material properties. Am I thinking correctly on this one?
el'Ol: how do you want to print? It's a bit difficult on an already mounted cone.
Although the type of paint is specified as a material in which sound propagates faster than in air, I assume that the most important part is that the enable pattern has significantly different properties when compared to the cone material. Such that the waves travelling parallel to the cone are disturbed by very by encountering very different material properties. Am I thinking correctly on this one?
el'Ol: how do you want to print? It's a bit difficult on an already mounted cone.
Theoretically, we want the wave to travel faster in the pattern material than the cone material so that the wave is not reflected until it reaches the terminal. If the wave in the pattern material travels slower there will be earlier reflections, which I think is the case with the JX92 driver.
It's not easy to find applicable material that has acoustic impedance lower than aluminum. Any ideas to try out?
It's not easy to find applicable material that has acoustic impedance lower than aluminum. Any ideas to try out?
Hi Bud,
If golden ratio is used in the pattern, maybe will result in better effect. This would also reduce the need for endless tweaking, especially if the application of the pattern is undo able. specific tweaking still can bring beneficial effect, probably some sort of simulator would be needed for optimum result.
I apply my pattern using water color brush, I already have a plan to simplify the patterning, without using pen or brush. I'll let you all know after I do some testing.
Hartono
If golden ratio is used in the pattern, maybe will result in better effect. This would also reduce the need for endless tweaking, especially if the application of the pattern is undo able. specific tweaking still can bring beneficial effect, probably some sort of simulator would be needed for optimum result.
I apply my pattern using water color brush, I already have a plan to simplify the patterning, without using pen or brush. I'll let you all know after I do some testing.
Hartono
BudP and planet10,
I've been considering the Fostex FE127E Fonkens for a project to give as a gift to a friend. Then today, somehow, I was led to this post. Wow! I suppose that today fortune is smiling on me. I understand just enough of this whole concept to know that I understand absolutely nothing about it. Still...
Can't wait to hear about the Fonkens with BudP's EnABLed FE127Es (post 242 and 248).
Mike
I've been considering the Fostex FE127E Fonkens for a project to give as a gift to a friend. Then today, somehow, I was led to this post. Wow! I suppose that today fortune is smiling on me. I understand just enough of this whole concept to know that I understand absolutely nothing about it. Still...
Can't wait to hear about the Fonkens with BudP's EnABLed FE127Es (post 242 and 248).
Mike
speed of sound
here is a list of the speed of sound in different materials. As you can see aluminum and glass are both very fast. One can purchase aluminum shim stock in just about any thickness and it can be cut with a small paper shear or sicssors. You could also use small glass beads which are availabel in suitable sizes and are hollow. I think that aluminum shim stock would be ideal. Of course diamond studs would look very sheek and tripple your transmission speed.
METALS m/s m/s
A ALUMINIUM 6 320 - 6 400 M MOLYBDENUM 6 250 - 6 300
ALUMINIUM 2024-T4 6 380 MERCURY 1 450
ASBESTOS CEMENT 2 200 NICKEL 5 480 - 6 040
B BERYLLIUM 12 890 PLATINUM 3 960
BORON CARBIDE 10 920 S SILVER 3 600 - 3 700
BRASS 3 800 - 4 700 STEEL, MILD 5 900 - 6 100
C CAST IRON 3 500 - 5 600 STEEL, CASTING 5 850
" " (MODULAR GRAPHITE) 5 600 STEEL, STAINLESS (AUSTENITIC) 5 660 - 6 120
CAST GREY MIDDLE 4 600 STELLITE 7 050
COPPER 4 650 - 4 720 T TIN 3 300 - 3 330
CADMIUM 2 770 - 2 800 TITANIUM 5 900 - 6 100
CHROMIUM 6 200 TUNGSTEN CARBON 6 650
G GOLD 3 200 - 3 250 TUNGSTEN 5 180 - 5 400
INCONEL 5 820 URANIUM 3380
IRON 5 890 - 5 930 W WOLFRAM 5 460
LEAD 1 960 - 2 400 ZINC 4 170 - 4 320
M MANGANESE 4 660 - 4 700 ZIRCALOY 2 4 700
MAGNESIUM 5 770 - 5 840 ZIRCONIUM 4 650
NON-METAL (m/s)
A ACRYLIC 2 870 NYLON 2 600 - 2 690
ACRYLIC RESIN 2 730 - 2 870 OIL (SAE 30) 1 740
AIR 330 P PARAFFIN WAX 2 200
ALUM. OXIDE 8 700 PERSPEX 2 860
C CERAMIC (MACOR) 5 631 PHENOLIC 1 400
DIAMOND 17 500 PLEXI GLASS 2 700
DIESEL OIL 1 250 POLYAMIDE 2 380
EPOXY RESIN 2 650 POLYETHYLENE 1 900 - 2 400
G GLASS (FLINT) 4 260 POLYURETHANE 1 780 - 1 900
GLASS (CROWN) 5 260 - 6 120 POLYSTYRENE 2 340 - 2 400
GLASS (QUARTZ) 5 570 PORCELAIN 5 600 - 5 900
GLASS (WINDOW) 6 800 PVC 2 400
GLYCERINE 1 920 Q QUARTZ X CUT 5 740
ICE 3 980 QUARTZ FUSED 5 980
H HI-DENSITY POLYETHELENE 2 220 - 2 300 RUBBER (BUTYL) 1 900
(GREY & WHITE NOT BLACK) R RUBBER (SOFT) 1 480
M METHYLENE-OXIDE 9 980 RUBBER (VULC.) 2 300
MONEL 5 360 - 5 400 S SILICONE RUBBER 948
MOTOR OIL (SAE 30) 1 750 TEFLON 1 350 - 1 520
NEOPRENE 1 600 WATER 1470
NB NOTE : THIS SCHEDULE IS ONLY A GUIDE
here is a list of the speed of sound in different materials. As you can see aluminum and glass are both very fast. One can purchase aluminum shim stock in just about any thickness and it can be cut with a small paper shear or sicssors. You could also use small glass beads which are availabel in suitable sizes and are hollow. I think that aluminum shim stock would be ideal. Of course diamond studs would look very sheek and tripple your transmission speed.
METALS m/s m/s
A ALUMINIUM 6 320 - 6 400 M MOLYBDENUM 6 250 - 6 300
ALUMINIUM 2024-T4 6 380 MERCURY 1 450
ASBESTOS CEMENT 2 200 NICKEL 5 480 - 6 040
B BERYLLIUM 12 890 PLATINUM 3 960
BORON CARBIDE 10 920 S SILVER 3 600 - 3 700
BRASS 3 800 - 4 700 STEEL, MILD 5 900 - 6 100
C CAST IRON 3 500 - 5 600 STEEL, CASTING 5 850
" " (MODULAR GRAPHITE) 5 600 STEEL, STAINLESS (AUSTENITIC) 5 660 - 6 120
CAST GREY MIDDLE 4 600 STELLITE 7 050
COPPER 4 650 - 4 720 T TIN 3 300 - 3 330
CADMIUM 2 770 - 2 800 TITANIUM 5 900 - 6 100
CHROMIUM 6 200 TUNGSTEN CARBON 6 650
G GOLD 3 200 - 3 250 TUNGSTEN 5 180 - 5 400
INCONEL 5 820 URANIUM 3380
IRON 5 890 - 5 930 W WOLFRAM 5 460
LEAD 1 960 - 2 400 ZINC 4 170 - 4 320
M MANGANESE 4 660 - 4 700 ZIRCALOY 2 4 700
MAGNESIUM 5 770 - 5 840 ZIRCONIUM 4 650
NON-METAL (m/s)
A ACRYLIC 2 870 NYLON 2 600 - 2 690
ACRYLIC RESIN 2 730 - 2 870 OIL (SAE 30) 1 740
AIR 330 P PARAFFIN WAX 2 200
ALUM. OXIDE 8 700 PERSPEX 2 860
C CERAMIC (MACOR) 5 631 PHENOLIC 1 400
DIAMOND 17 500 PLEXI GLASS 2 700
DIESEL OIL 1 250 POLYAMIDE 2 380
EPOXY RESIN 2 650 POLYETHYLENE 1 900 - 2 400
G GLASS (FLINT) 4 260 POLYURETHANE 1 780 - 1 900
GLASS (CROWN) 5 260 - 6 120 POLYSTYRENE 2 340 - 2 400
GLASS (QUARTZ) 5 570 PORCELAIN 5 600 - 5 900
GLASS (WINDOW) 6 800 PVC 2 400
GLYCERINE 1 920 Q QUARTZ X CUT 5 740
ICE 3 980 QUARTZ FUSED 5 980
H HI-DENSITY POLYETHELENE 2 220 - 2 300 RUBBER (BUTYL) 1 900
(GREY & WHITE NOT BLACK) R RUBBER (SOFT) 1 480
M METHYLENE-OXIDE 9 980 RUBBER (VULC.) 2 300
MONEL 5 360 - 5 400 S SILICONE RUBBER 948
MOTOR OIL (SAE 30) 1 750 TEFLON 1 350 - 1 520
NEOPRENE 1 600 WATER 1470
NB NOTE : THIS SCHEDULE IS ONLY A GUIDE
definetly a selling point.
maxro,
I cannot claim to have done definitive investigations into material speeds and EnABL. I can say that polycarbonate and titanium do not need any gloss coat except over the paint blocks that form the pattern. And, the titanium is optional here.
So, you can begin to draw some conclusions about what net speeds will provide a "natural" sound reproduction. One that your threat assessment system finds to be unworthy of sending alarm notices to you consciousness about.
I am pretty suspicious of the rote, "faster is better" mind set that is common. I think fast enough and just crammed to the gills with intelligible detail, color, transients and artistic beauty is a better target.
Dave and Liasom
Looks like July 7th is the day for Fostex evaluation. It will be fun to find out how pretty flat to 80 Hz and crystal clear, while leaning up against a metal speaker stand, on the floor, at a 60 degree angle, without any baffle, translates into a cabinet actually designed for the driver.
Bud
I cannot claim to have done definitive investigations into material speeds and EnABL. I can say that polycarbonate and titanium do not need any gloss coat except over the paint blocks that form the pattern. And, the titanium is optional here.
So, you can begin to draw some conclusions about what net speeds will provide a "natural" sound reproduction. One that your threat assessment system finds to be unworthy of sending alarm notices to you consciousness about.
I am pretty suspicious of the rote, "faster is better" mind set that is common. I think fast enough and just crammed to the gills with intelligible detail, color, transients and artistic beauty is a better target.
Dave and Liasom
Looks like July 7th is the day for Fostex evaluation. It will be fun to find out how pretty flat to 80 Hz and crystal clear, while leaning up against a metal speaker stand, on the floor, at a 60 degree angle, without any baffle, translates into a cabinet actually designed for the driver.
Bud
- Status
- Not open for further replies.