Alex from Oz said:
Alex,
You have me absolutely intrigued about the room corners. I will get to trying it one of these days. I think one could decorate this into the room repainting after putting a raised pattern around the edges. Upstairs, I have cornice moldings with block pattern in the plaster around all the rooms. This stuff could be built into a decorating scheme without looking like a science project in the same way a modern concert hall has acoustic treatments that look good.
Yeah, form and function...aesthetics and acoustics! 😀
The 60cm strips in each of the corners is enough to transform the room - without resorting to full re-decoration. 🙂
If your lovely wife will permit you to do it, then you really should try it.
Given her sensitivity to noise, is she able to enjoy listening to music?
She would probably be quite sensitive to the audible changes (positive/negative) that the room corner EnABL brings.
I'm still trying to figure out exactly how much of the pattern you need in the room and the ideal location for it.
I've done the clap test a few times to see if I can locate specific areas that may require the pattern applied.
Haven't been able to find anything - yet!
The depth and clarity in the bass frequencies is astounding.
Acoustic instruments like double bass, french horn, tuba have a richness that wasn't there before I treated the room corners.
Cheers,
Alex
The 60cm strips in each of the corners is enough to transform the room - without resorting to full re-decoration. 🙂
If your lovely wife will permit you to do it, then you really should try it.
Given her sensitivity to noise, is she able to enjoy listening to music?
She would probably be quite sensitive to the audible changes (positive/negative) that the room corner EnABL brings.
I'm still trying to figure out exactly how much of the pattern you need in the room and the ideal location for it.
I've done the clap test a few times to see if I can locate specific areas that may require the pattern applied.
Haven't been able to find anything - yet!
The depth and clarity in the bass frequencies is astounding.
Acoustic instruments like double bass, french horn, tuba have a richness that wasn't there before I treated the room corners.
Cheers,
Alex
Alex,
The clap test is done to listen for echoes. What you are listening for is the decay of the echo. As you move about the room, clapping madly at your madness, you should find areas where the decay is quite a bit shorter than in other spots.
Move to the nearest wall and clap again to see if the same shortened echo happens there too. If not, move along the wall to see if you find any difference in the decay tail length. If you find a null or short decay tail right next to the wall, put a set of blocks there, floor to ceiling and preferably removable.
Listen to your audio system for a bit and then remove the blocks. Listen again and then replace them. You may have to block strip both sides of the room at this location, or the other side may be moved slightly one way or the other.
You are looking for the same decay tail throughout the room. If you already have that, then put a set of blocks in the corners, at the other end of the room and call it good. There will be frequency specific decay nulls in the room, but finding them can be a pain and take quite a bite out of your lifetime. The benefit will usually be very slight, compared to the major null removal.
Bud
The clap test is done to listen for echoes. What you are listening for is the decay of the echo. As you move about the room, clapping madly at your madness, you should find areas where the decay is quite a bit shorter than in other spots.
Move to the nearest wall and clap again to see if the same shortened echo happens there too. If not, move along the wall to see if you find any difference in the decay tail length. If you find a null or short decay tail right next to the wall, put a set of blocks there, floor to ceiling and preferably removable.
Listen to your audio system for a bit and then remove the blocks. Listen again and then replace them. You may have to block strip both sides of the room at this location, or the other side may be moved slightly one way or the other.
You are looking for the same decay tail throughout the room. If you already have that, then put a set of blocks in the corners, at the other end of the room and call it good. There will be frequency specific decay nulls in the room, but finding them can be a pain and take quite a bite out of your lifetime. The benefit will usually be very slight, compared to the major null removal.
Bud
BudP said:
G'day Bud,
Actually I have put the pattern in all four (4) corners already.
Which might explain why the clap test is proving a challenge.
I can hear very slight changes to the echo decay as I move around the room.
Pinning down the exact location of the shorter decay is proving a little tricky.
I may try moving the chairs and lounge out on the weekend and try the clap test in an empty room.
Cheers,
Alex
3D in sound stage
Clearly a change in my system since finishing the Tweeters is an increase in 3D sound stage (whether subjective, imagined or delusional) It is there. I am listening now to Mozart Requiem d-moll,- Karl Bohm, Wiener Philharmoniker as I write. It always seemed a quality recording and a great piece of music. The placement of voices around the soundstage is now distinctly 3 dimensional. Some are in front, some mid stage and some back stage. Previously they were good, but in a wide but more 2D semicircular space.
Now to be fair to the trolling engineering crowd I cannot be sure exactly how much I can attribute solely to the Microgloss step of tweeter EnAble. I tend to get captured by improvements and motivated to implement changes in bursts. (kid in the candy shop)
When I applied the EnAble pattern to the tweeters the improvement excited me to finish two other partially completed projects. I put in bi wired speaker cables, and finished the power conditioning project with the addition of 2 filter caps at the AC entry to my system. While the Cap effect was immediate and startling, the cables took 100 hours to settle in to their full potential.
I have 100's of hours of music online so I can't be sure when I last heard this piece or how much of the 3d effect is due solely to the microgloss and how much to the other two changes, so your mileage may vary. I'm not sure that it matters as I believe that all these changes are cumulative, and my system hits tipping points where enough information is presented clearly, faithfully and in correct timing so that the audio illusion takes a jump closer to the real thing. EnAble is a contributor to that quest.
Clearly a change in my system since finishing the Tweeters is an increase in 3D sound stage (whether subjective, imagined or delusional) It is there. I am listening now to Mozart Requiem d-moll,- Karl Bohm, Wiener Philharmoniker as I write. It always seemed a quality recording and a great piece of music. The placement of voices around the soundstage is now distinctly 3 dimensional. Some are in front, some mid stage and some back stage. Previously they were good, but in a wide but more 2D semicircular space.
Now to be fair to the trolling engineering crowd I cannot be sure exactly how much I can attribute solely to the Microgloss step of tweeter EnAble. I tend to get captured by improvements and motivated to implement changes in bursts. (kid in the candy shop)
When I applied the EnAble pattern to the tweeters the improvement excited me to finish two other partially completed projects. I put in bi wired speaker cables, and finished the power conditioning project with the addition of 2 filter caps at the AC entry to my system. While the Cap effect was immediate and startling, the cables took 100 hours to settle in to their full potential.
I have 100's of hours of music online so I can't be sure when I last heard this piece or how much of the 3d effect is due solely to the microgloss and how much to the other two changes, so your mileage may vary. I'm not sure that it matters as I believe that all these changes are cumulative, and my system hits tipping points where enough information is presented clearly, faithfully and in correct timing so that the audio illusion takes a jump closer to the real thing. EnAble is a contributor to that quest.
Re: Can we put your opinions in context
Forgive me for being off topic, but anyone that believes that resitiors in the signal path can make a difference must check out the Lightspeed Passive Attenuator thread.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80194&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Its a perfect compliment to EnAble.
Forgive me for being off topic, but anyone that believes that resitiors in the signal path can make a difference must check out the Lightspeed Passive Attenuator thread.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80194&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Its a perfect compliment to EnAble.
...successful enough to warrant proceeding.
Bud, Thank you for not letting these guys dampen your natural generosity to share your insights. It is valued around the world and by this listener.
Another impression. Something you predicted earlier, I am clearly now experiencing. EnAble enables multiple drivers to function as one coherent source as if its one very full range driver. I'm now listening to Dianna Krall's - The Girl in the Other Room. There is an incredible amount of information available across the audio spectrum. I actually have to turn down the volume to avoid being overwhelmed. This is coming from a pair of 2 way drivers supported by an EnAbled sub. The whole thing functions as one. As posted earlier, the EnAble supported innovation here is that none of this stuff is hi end.
BudP said:
Bud, Thank you for not letting these guys dampen your natural generosity to share your insights. It is valued around the world and by this listener.
Another impression. Something you predicted earlier, I am clearly now experiencing. EnAble enables multiple drivers to function as one coherent source as if its one very full range driver. I'm now listening to Dianna Krall's - The Girl in the Other Room. There is an incredible amount of information available across the audio spectrum. I actually have to turn down the volume to avoid being overwhelmed. This is coming from a pair of 2 way drivers supported by an EnAbled sub. The whole thing functions as one. As posted earlier, the EnAble supported innovation here is that none of this stuff is hi end.
DNFTT
dviswa
Right you are. Problem is they can endure like a spore almost indefinitely and still spring to life with the least hint of food for fodder.
In the enduring drought its the rest of us who starve.
dviswa
Right you are. Problem is they can endure like a spore almost indefinitely and still spring to life with the least hint of food for fodder.
In the enduring drought its the rest of us who starve.
cplay
BTW, just realized there is a new version of CPLAY. Another amazing compliment to EnAble.
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/3/31286.html
BTW, just realized there is a new version of CPLAY. Another amazing compliment to EnAble.
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/3/31286.html
Dot's on a wall, eh!! This must seems totally Crazy to the most engineers!! Speaker cones, maybe. Baffles a possible 1/10, but WALLS, and even worse.... CORNERS!!!
Sorry Alex, just kidding!!
Thanks BudP for all your work and unbelievable patience.
And for the continuing support from everyone that have also shown just how well this crazy idea actually works.
It's good to see your patent has been okayed and even better that Dave (Planet 10) has added a note to say he's one of your liscenced manufacturers. Great stuff.
It's interesting how this "thing" about room EnABL patterns dovetails quite well with many of the ideas of Michael Green - "Tuneland", and other lateral thinkers. Unfortunately, a lot of the classical engineers give him a hard time also, for "thinking outside the box". It's a pity really, as much information, work and development is lost to us.
I'm fascinated by the way that the Dolphins Sonar and Hearing system works - now THAT'S a microphone/speaker/ear/brain/ acoustic system to strive for!
And many whales have bumpy skin, and the Airforce is using rough edges on wings and things - this EnABL thing pops up (!) everywhere!
My .02c on a Saturday!
Sorry Alex, just kidding!!
Thanks BudP for all your work and unbelievable patience.
And for the continuing support from everyone that have also shown just how well this crazy idea actually works.
It's good to see your patent has been okayed and even better that Dave (Planet 10) has added a note to say he's one of your liscenced manufacturers. Great stuff.
It's interesting how this "thing" about room EnABL patterns dovetails quite well with many of the ideas of Michael Green - "Tuneland", and other lateral thinkers. Unfortunately, a lot of the classical engineers give him a hard time also, for "thinking outside the box". It's a pity really, as much information, work and development is lost to us.
I'm fascinated by the way that the Dolphins Sonar and Hearing system works - now THAT'S a microphone/speaker/ear/brain/ acoustic system to strive for!
And many whales have bumpy skin, and the Airforce is using rough edges on wings and things - this EnABL thing pops up (!) everywhere!
My .02c on a Saturday!
I have started a new thread for all you still intent on going against the flow here. I am getting tired of going through all this mess. I think from now on I'll just delete any posts that don't conform to the requested format. If you have any questions it's because you choose not to understand. I'm not likely to be very empathetic but feel free to email me. I love to hear someone other than dog whine.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=145033
Thanks Cal, good move - getting really "jack of the crap" - don't know where you guys get the patience.
Dayton DA 175-8
When these drivers first arrived I was certain I was going to hate them and equally certain I would not be able to overcome their imagined short comings. When first played, full range and nude, I was surprised at their inherent amount of detail. They were ok below 1 kHz for tonality, pretty good to 3 kHz and very spiked and tizzy above that. The dust cap forced all illusion of a center channel to flee. A very buzzy, composite fiber dust cap, with very odd overtones above the pass band. And, to top it all off, a VERY ALUMINUM sound quality to everything. 8 months later they are in my top category for drivers. And, you can vary the sound from fast, light, open, faintly metallic to fast , liquid, open, and neutral. In either case, the most complete sound I have ever heard. Not quite as dynamic as the Lowther PM6A 16 ohm, not quite as intellectual as the Fostex F 200 A, but more detailed and every bit as capable as either, at musical reproduction, and all of this right out to the 10 kHz top end.
Start by applying the patterns on the front of the cone. There are three rigs on the aluminum portion. Then flip the cone over and apply the back side patter to the cone, out on the edge. A number two pen tip works well for the outer patterns, on both sides, but a #66 quill pen will be useful everywhere else. If you listen at this point you will hear what friend Rene' heard, when he commented that they were utterly transparently aluminum.
You must obtain the ever sticky glue for the next part. It is mandatory. If you cannot obtain this glue, don't buy the drivers to EnABL them. This glue is marketed by ZIG memory systems and is called "Two Way Glue". Manufacturer is Kuretake Co Ltd. in Japan and imported to the states by EK success Ltd, PO box 1141, Clifton NJ. 07014 WWW.eksuccess.com . Perhaps we can talk Ed into making it a part of the EnABL kit he sells. I purchase my supply from the scrap book section at Michaels, here in the USA.
Dab the glue out on a piece of plastic and use a 3/8 inch wide, flat, sable brush to apply it directly onto the center dome. One brush load per radial stripe, from outer edge to center. Allow to dry and apply another coating in the same fashion. You have enough on when the entire surface feels slightly sticky to the touch. Wait 24 hours and apply a single coat of 50% cut Gloss to the dome with a well tamped brush using radial strokes from outer edge to center. Once set, the surface should now be just barely sticky and have a very fast response to a light finger nail tap.
Now use the #6 quill pen to apply the three ring sets to the dome, plus the typical center round spot, 1/16" in diameter and two, three block set rings, around that spot. Once this has set up, about a day, listen again. You should find that the ragged top end is smooth, very open, fast and transparently aluminum, though less so than before.
Using the same glue, apply a single coat on the backside of the cone, from the voice coil joint to just past where the braided wires pass through the cone. About half way down the cone, toward the edge. Apply it with the 3/8" brush and make as even a coating as you can, but don't be picky here. Wait a day and listen. The sound should be smooth, very open, fast and transparent. No aluminum sound left, though you will hear a faint hint of metal with instruments that use metal in their construction.
You should stop here and build your system. If you use Zaphs recommended aluminum dome tweeter, you should remove the grill, use the #66 pen tip to apply the patterns around the outer edge and on the flat bezel, at both inner and outer edges. You should also apply the center dot and two rings of three block sets to the center of the dome. Then, coat the dome, using a thin, pointed, fine line brush, very well drained, and also the surround including the horn curve on the bezel next to the surround, with one very light coating of 50% gloss. Coat the bezel out beyond the screen with a 3/8" one side tamp drained 50% gloss coating.
At this point in the Dayton treatment, you could mate them with the very best ribbon tweeter you can afford, quite successfully indeed. They will be every bit as fast, open and transparent as even RAHL's excellent drivers. If you choose to do so, seriously consider stopping here and apply no more gloss to the Dayton drivers.
The final stage will elevate the top end slightly and turn the drivers into the sonic equivalent of liquid glass. Slightly slower than the bare aluminum surface provides, but with the same amount of detail, unbelievable transparency and completeness, with the best "settling time" performance I know of.
Apply the outer rim pattern, use the same #2 pen tip as before and when it has dried apply one coat of 50% gloss with a lightly drained brush. You just want good coverage here and three brush loads will likely finish the job. From the final brush load, very light ly coat the surface of the surround bump. The brush should be nearly empty of gloss for this and just a dry brush technique should be used. This means that the brush fibers are still coated but no welling occurs if you bend the fibers against a surface. This coating should just barely darken the surround material.
Next, apply a PVA drop on the center spot of the dome, allow to dry over night and coat lightly with 50% gloss , using a thin, pointed fine line brush. Coat out onto the dome enough to cover those two rows with three block sets each there at the center. Next, apply a single coating of Gloss, 50% cut, over the entire backside of the cone. Use whatever stroke pattern seems useful, use a half tamped 3/8" brush and get as even a coating as you can. Listen to this after another 24 hour curing period. The driver should be without any on axis emphasis to the sound and moving off axis should provide the same characteristics as on axis.
Now apply a coating of 50% gloss to the aluminum cone front. Apply it circumferentially, in three steps, from the center dome edge out onto the surround glue surface, but not onto the surround bump. Use a single side tamped 3/8" brush for this and drain it medium well. The inner stroke should take two brush loads and you should even the material out with over brushing. The same with the next two steps, though they may both require three brush loads. Allow this to cure for 24 hours and listen carefully. If the sound is still not as liquid and clear as you prefer, apply a second coating in exactly the same manner. Listen again and if desired, apply a third coating in the same fashion..
Once thoroughly dry, no matter where you stopped and what you have teamed them with, these are amazing drivers. Kudos’ to the designers at Dayton, and then there is the price Parts Express wants for these gems. As far as using them in a multi-way system, I will apply the tweeter I use in my eventual MTM pair, with a slant in aimed at 3db down at 10 kHz. and no inductor to roll off the top of the Dayton’s. Just to provide the top to brushes and the spatial depth to beyond 10kHz. I am equally sure you can cross them over, just as Zaph calls for, and end up with a superb sounding system.
I will post pictures in the usual Picasa site this weekend and have attached the pattern ring guides for the DA 175-8 and the 27TBFC/G H1212-6ohm tweeter below.
Bud
When these drivers first arrived I was certain I was going to hate them and equally certain I would not be able to overcome their imagined short comings. When first played, full range and nude, I was surprised at their inherent amount of detail. They were ok below 1 kHz for tonality, pretty good to 3 kHz and very spiked and tizzy above that. The dust cap forced all illusion of a center channel to flee. A very buzzy, composite fiber dust cap, with very odd overtones above the pass band. And, to top it all off, a VERY ALUMINUM sound quality to everything. 8 months later they are in my top category for drivers. And, you can vary the sound from fast, light, open, faintly metallic to fast , liquid, open, and neutral. In either case, the most complete sound I have ever heard. Not quite as dynamic as the Lowther PM6A 16 ohm, not quite as intellectual as the Fostex F 200 A, but more detailed and every bit as capable as either, at musical reproduction, and all of this right out to the 10 kHz top end.
Start by applying the patterns on the front of the cone. There are three rigs on the aluminum portion. Then flip the cone over and apply the back side patter to the cone, out on the edge. A number two pen tip works well for the outer patterns, on both sides, but a #66 quill pen will be useful everywhere else. If you listen at this point you will hear what friend Rene' heard, when he commented that they were utterly transparently aluminum.
You must obtain the ever sticky glue for the next part. It is mandatory. If you cannot obtain this glue, don't buy the drivers to EnABL them. This glue is marketed by ZIG memory systems and is called "Two Way Glue". Manufacturer is Kuretake Co Ltd. in Japan and imported to the states by EK success Ltd, PO box 1141, Clifton NJ. 07014 WWW.eksuccess.com . Perhaps we can talk Ed into making it a part of the EnABL kit he sells. I purchase my supply from the scrap book section at Michaels, here in the USA.
Dab the glue out on a piece of plastic and use a 3/8 inch wide, flat, sable brush to apply it directly onto the center dome. One brush load per radial stripe, from outer edge to center. Allow to dry and apply another coating in the same fashion. You have enough on when the entire surface feels slightly sticky to the touch. Wait 24 hours and apply a single coat of 50% cut Gloss to the dome with a well tamped brush using radial strokes from outer edge to center. Once set, the surface should now be just barely sticky and have a very fast response to a light finger nail tap.
Now use the #6 quill pen to apply the three ring sets to the dome, plus the typical center round spot, 1/16" in diameter and two, three block set rings, around that spot. Once this has set up, about a day, listen again. You should find that the ragged top end is smooth, very open, fast and transparently aluminum, though less so than before.
Using the same glue, apply a single coat on the backside of the cone, from the voice coil joint to just past where the braided wires pass through the cone. About half way down the cone, toward the edge. Apply it with the 3/8" brush and make as even a coating as you can, but don't be picky here. Wait a day and listen. The sound should be smooth, very open, fast and transparent. No aluminum sound left, though you will hear a faint hint of metal with instruments that use metal in their construction.
You should stop here and build your system. If you use Zaphs recommended aluminum dome tweeter, you should remove the grill, use the #66 pen tip to apply the patterns around the outer edge and on the flat bezel, at both inner and outer edges. You should also apply the center dot and two rings of three block sets to the center of the dome. Then, coat the dome, using a thin, pointed, fine line brush, very well drained, and also the surround including the horn curve on the bezel next to the surround, with one very light coating of 50% gloss. Coat the bezel out beyond the screen with a 3/8" one side tamp drained 50% gloss coating.
At this point in the Dayton treatment, you could mate them with the very best ribbon tweeter you can afford, quite successfully indeed. They will be every bit as fast, open and transparent as even RAHL's excellent drivers. If you choose to do so, seriously consider stopping here and apply no more gloss to the Dayton drivers.
The final stage will elevate the top end slightly and turn the drivers into the sonic equivalent of liquid glass. Slightly slower than the bare aluminum surface provides, but with the same amount of detail, unbelievable transparency and completeness, with the best "settling time" performance I know of.
Apply the outer rim pattern, use the same #2 pen tip as before and when it has dried apply one coat of 50% gloss with a lightly drained brush. You just want good coverage here and three brush loads will likely finish the job. From the final brush load, very light ly coat the surface of the surround bump. The brush should be nearly empty of gloss for this and just a dry brush technique should be used. This means that the brush fibers are still coated but no welling occurs if you bend the fibers against a surface. This coating should just barely darken the surround material.
Next, apply a PVA drop on the center spot of the dome, allow to dry over night and coat lightly with 50% gloss , using a thin, pointed fine line brush. Coat out onto the dome enough to cover those two rows with three block sets each there at the center. Next, apply a single coating of Gloss, 50% cut, over the entire backside of the cone. Use whatever stroke pattern seems useful, use a half tamped 3/8" brush and get as even a coating as you can. Listen to this after another 24 hour curing period. The driver should be without any on axis emphasis to the sound and moving off axis should provide the same characteristics as on axis.
Now apply a coating of 50% gloss to the aluminum cone front. Apply it circumferentially, in three steps, from the center dome edge out onto the surround glue surface, but not onto the surround bump. Use a single side tamped 3/8" brush for this and drain it medium well. The inner stroke should take two brush loads and you should even the material out with over brushing. The same with the next two steps, though they may both require three brush loads. Allow this to cure for 24 hours and listen carefully. If the sound is still not as liquid and clear as you prefer, apply a second coating in exactly the same manner. Listen again and if desired, apply a third coating in the same fashion..
Once thoroughly dry, no matter where you stopped and what you have teamed them with, these are amazing drivers. Kudos’ to the designers at Dayton, and then there is the price Parts Express wants for these gems. As far as using them in a multi-way system, I will apply the tweeter I use in my eventual MTM pair, with a slant in aimed at 3db down at 10 kHz. and no inductor to roll off the top of the Dayton’s. Just to provide the top to brushes and the spatial depth to beyond 10kHz. I am equally sure you can cross them over, just as Zaph calls for, and end up with a superb sounding system.
I will post pictures in the usual Picasa site this weekend and have attached the pattern ring guides for the DA 175-8 and the 27TBFC/G H1212-6ohm tweeter below.
Bud
Oh Captain, my Captain
Good morning, Peace to you. 😉 I'm on it.
Micheal's is nearby. The Zig's "Two Way Glue" appears to be available only in dispensing pens. Did you find a different package?
A request for clarification: Which pen tip?:
I provide a #56 in the kit. Bud has referred to the #66, Dave has referred to a #99. Is this splitting hairs?
The H1212 is of particular interest, Thanks for that.
Which leads me to request from any source:
Does any pattern set exist for the Dayton RS180?
Good morning, Peace to you. 😉 I'm on it.
Micheal's is nearby. The Zig's "Two Way Glue" appears to be available only in dispensing pens. Did you find a different package?
A request for clarification: Which pen tip?:
I provide a #56 in the kit. Bud has referred to the #66, Dave has referred to a #99. Is this splitting hairs?
The H1212 is of particular interest, Thanks for that.
Which leads me to request from any source:
Does any pattern set exist for the Dayton RS180?
more on the H1212
This tweeter has a removable faceplate/voice coil assembly. This allows treating the backside of the dome.
The hexagrid cover can be removed and replaced, which allows treatment of the dome surface.
This tweeter has a removable faceplate/voice coil assembly. This allows treating the backside of the dome.
The hexagrid cover can be removed and replaced, which allows treatment of the dome surface.
Re: Oh Captain, my Captain
When i 1st started using them, i called them 66, later the fellow at the store pointed out i was reading the number up-side down. I use 66 for the smallest spots... ff85k dustcaps, dustcap stealth ring & such. For something like this 7" woofer i'd probably try a 56.
dave
Ed LaFontaine said:
When i 1st started using them, i called them 66, later the fellow at the store pointed out i was reading the number up-side down. I use 66 for the smallest spots... ff85k dustcaps, dustcap stealth ring & such. For something like this 7" woofer i'd probably try a 56.
dave
Do they come with glasses!?
Being the happy owner of 126 eN's, there's some very painstaking time spent on the application!
Don
Being the happy owner of 126 eN's, there's some very painstaking time spent on the application!
Don
Ed,
The 2 way glue comes in an applicator, with a 1/2" wide fiber tip. The stuff is a hideous color of blue as you dab it onto the intermediate surface and it remains a viable liquid for about 10 minutes, when in a puddle. I know of no other container, but the inporter might have something.
Most of the quill type pen points will work. I just use the #66/99 because it has those nice tip relief slots, that allow you to spread the quill tips with pressure and control the line width in that fashion.
You can remove the dome platter for that tweeter, I did, just to make sure. You must mark both the platter and the magnet assembly for position before you remove the dome platter. I use a colored dot, actually two of them in a line and different colors for separate drivers, on adjacent surfaces. Otherwise you could easily mis-align the dome, or even mount it on the wrong magnet assembly, when reassembling the tweeters.
Dome tweeters in general can be made into spectacular tweeters when treated on both sides of the dome. Helps to treat the pole piece too, and most do not need any damping material applied here. Just a ring set around the pole face, just inside of the gap will do. Those tweeters with a back cavity are leagues ahead of closed units, when it comes to handling extreme dynamics, without sudden shrieks.
Vifa's 3 inch dome mid range can be converted into a dark but superb mid driver, by applying the patterns to both sides, removing the perforated aluminum safety support and also removing the center section of the magnets back plate. This plate is already porous but does reflect signal when the driver is driven hard. I use a 3"PVC schedule 40 pipe end cap for a simple back cup, filled with long fiber cotton. Vifa wants you to use a 1.7 liter cup, but the cap works fine until you get into the low hundreds for spl, and I never go there any more.
For the RS 180, I suspect that you can scale up the FE 126/127 patterns and use the dome placement for the phase plugs. I do think you will end up with a large number of ring sets in the mid cone area. I would apply inner and outer rings first and then begin radial tap testing. When you find a null you will likely also find one or more drop out sectors adjacent to that null. On the aluminum cones, or at least the DA 175, these drop outs do not show up until you have the null corrected. Pattern rings centered on the drop outs will eliminate them, so you can end up with three patterns sets right next to each other This is a lot of fooling around, but the end result is amazingly musical.
Next worry is how and where to damp the cone, to eliminate those resonances that cause the aluminum character. I suspect most will be taken care of with back side damping, of the voice coil join to mid cone area, but that curved cone does cause me to pause.
Bud
The 2 way glue comes in an applicator, with a 1/2" wide fiber tip. The stuff is a hideous color of blue as you dab it onto the intermediate surface and it remains a viable liquid for about 10 minutes, when in a puddle. I know of no other container, but the inporter might have something.
Most of the quill type pen points will work. I just use the #66/99 because it has those nice tip relief slots, that allow you to spread the quill tips with pressure and control the line width in that fashion.
You can remove the dome platter for that tweeter, I did, just to make sure. You must mark both the platter and the magnet assembly for position before you remove the dome platter. I use a colored dot, actually two of them in a line and different colors for separate drivers, on adjacent surfaces. Otherwise you could easily mis-align the dome, or even mount it on the wrong magnet assembly, when reassembling the tweeters.
Dome tweeters in general can be made into spectacular tweeters when treated on both sides of the dome. Helps to treat the pole piece too, and most do not need any damping material applied here. Just a ring set around the pole face, just inside of the gap will do. Those tweeters with a back cavity are leagues ahead of closed units, when it comes to handling extreme dynamics, without sudden shrieks.
Vifa's 3 inch dome mid range can be converted into a dark but superb mid driver, by applying the patterns to both sides, removing the perforated aluminum safety support and also removing the center section of the magnets back plate. This plate is already porous but does reflect signal when the driver is driven hard. I use a 3"PVC schedule 40 pipe end cap for a simple back cup, filled with long fiber cotton. Vifa wants you to use a 1.7 liter cup, but the cap works fine until you get into the low hundreds for spl, and I never go there any more.
For the RS 180, I suspect that you can scale up the FE 126/127 patterns and use the dome placement for the phase plugs. I do think you will end up with a large number of ring sets in the mid cone area. I would apply inner and outer rings first and then begin radial tap testing. When you find a null you will likely also find one or more drop out sectors adjacent to that null. On the aluminum cones, or at least the DA 175, these drop outs do not show up until you have the null corrected. Pattern rings centered on the drop outs will eliminate them, so you can end up with three patterns sets right next to each other This is a lot of fooling around, but the end result is amazingly musical.
Next worry is how and where to damp the cone, to eliminate those resonances that cause the aluminum character. I suspect most will be taken care of with back side damping, of the voice coil join to mid cone area, but that curved cone does cause me to pause.
Bud