I enabled my bofus
Not the whizzers, yet, though. Still thinking about whether I want to dammar them, reduce/cut them off, or what.
It went surprisingly quickly, though I haven't applied the gloss coat yet. Once I got a few block sets aligned to the template, I just copied their size.
I also did it a little differently than dave and co. I used the pens and polly scale, but poured polly scale into one (disposable) cup and alcohol into another. When the application became slow/difficult (every 8 pairs or so) I swished the pen in the alcohol, then back into the paint and stirred with it. This kept the paint from drying out, and the pen from getting clogged. Some Q-tip use figured in there too for removing crud. Certainly more wasteful of paint and alcohol than a more traditional method, but it was really easy and went quickly. My time is worth a lot of pollyscale, to my way of thinking.
Not the whizzers, yet, though. Still thinking about whether I want to dammar them, reduce/cut them off, or what.
It went surprisingly quickly, though I haven't applied the gloss coat yet. Once I got a few block sets aligned to the template, I just copied their size.
I also did it a little differently than dave and co. I used the pens and polly scale, but poured polly scale into one (disposable) cup and alcohol into another. When the application became slow/difficult (every 8 pairs or so) I swished the pen in the alcohol, then back into the paint and stirred with it. This kept the paint from drying out, and the pen from getting clogged. Some Q-tip use figured in there too for removing crud. Certainly more wasteful of paint and alcohol than a more traditional method, but it was really easy and went quickly. My time is worth a lot of pollyscale, to my way of thinking.
Alex,
I would ask badman about the listening impression. I am still trying to get everything the same: speaker, box, source and a good setup. Then find someone with golden ears to do the listening impression.
The Pioneer NSBs can only go up the food chain so far. Still, I have squeezed a lot out of the one installed in a BIB from another build.
Today I prepared the other project which is the Roland piano speaker sold as full range with puzzlecoat and also made a pattern template for the null zone as described above. The null zone test has to be by feel so anything can happen with that.
I don't know that it IS a long way up the food chain. I love a good fostex as much as the next man, but the pioneers have a unique allure, in that they can do 'real' output levels, with 'normal' boxes, and the top end is much more tame and easy to integrate with a supertweeter. They're also really cool in that they can be heavily tweaked without too much fear, so you can be a little more aggressive, and find the 'tweakers sweet spot' more readily than with the fostex. They're also more tolerant, so where a little too much of this coating or that might totally ruin a fostex, you have to really overdo it with the pioneer to change it a ton from stock.
That said, it's not perfect. I've been working with trying to effect some improvements in the motor by doing some rough excursion linearity tests.
badman
Full disclosure is that my Pioneers are 50 cent 4 inchers gotten when Parts Express closed them out ages ago (originally maybe 10 bucks like the current A11's.)
But what you do and where you go with the BOFU might help with my Roland job.
Plus I am being persuaded that your sig is correct. My singular FE167e is very pleasant in an MLTL and that real full range starts there.
Nevertheless experiments continue.
But that reminds me of another thread to start: what ever became of caveman audio?
Full disclosure is that my Pioneers are 50 cent 4 inchers gotten when Parts Express closed them out ages ago (originally maybe 10 bucks like the current A11's.)
But what you do and where you go with the BOFU might help with my Roland job.
Plus I am being persuaded that your sig is correct. My singular FE167e is very pleasant in an MLTL and that real full range starts there.
Nevertheless experiments continue.
But that reminds me of another thread to start: what ever became of caveman audio?
Well, I'll be sure to let people know. After the pattern, without coating there does seem to be somewhat more dynamism, the soundstage is delfinitely deeper, and the localization to the speaker less of an issue.
Wonder where we'll be when I do what I'm going to with the whizzer.... this will require some measurements. In the meantime, despite how happy I am with the B20 in my little low-tuned vented boxes (near aperiodic), they really could use a little more help in damping excursions. So, I'm giving Nelson's TL design a try. Neither of the design sheets he's posted are dimensionally correct though, so be sure to add .75 to the depth if you're cutting from scratch for the PDF version. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60632&pp=25&page=4. I'm planning a removable super-baffle to allow mounting of the JBL LE8T-H as an alternate- it's close enough to be used in the same TL with some stuffing mods.
Wonder where we'll be when I do what I'm going to with the whizzer.... this will require some measurements. In the meantime, despite how happy I am with the B20 in my little low-tuned vented boxes (near aperiodic), they really could use a little more help in damping excursions. So, I'm giving Nelson's TL design a try. Neither of the design sheets he's posted are dimensionally correct though, so be sure to add .75 to the depth if you're cutting from scratch for the PDF version. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60632&pp=25&page=4. I'm planning a removable super-baffle to allow mounting of the JBL LE8T-H as an alternate- it's close enough to be used in the same TL with some stuffing mods.
here is mine macho cone mod 😀
cone is slit, then straightened paper clip soaked in gorilla glue inserted into the cut.
results are good, but there is still may be a room for improvement,
I may try to glue paper clips around cone edges.
measurements are taken 8in away in small enclosure with 5x5in baffle.
cone is slit, then straightened paper clip soaked in gorilla glue inserted into the cut.
results are good, but there is still may be a room for improvement,
I may try to glue paper clips around cone edges.
measurements are taken 8in away in small enclosure with 5x5in baffle.
Attachments
Have you seen this one? (we supposedly have higher limits on file sizes, we'll see if it sticks)
dave
bofu looks good
The file size on above attachment seems adequate.
I gave a thin coat of the Modpodge/puzzlecoat to the Roland. Just enough to seal the fibers as Dave says. That dried overnight
Today I got the first null ring done on the Roland. Patience is hard to maintain when doing this. I had to quit after doing half of the pattern (one ring) for dry time and to make another template. Other option is fill in the remaining ring freehand after things dry.
Using the stealth paint which Ed provided is a hoot. When dried, I wonder if I did anything. Looking on edge and in backlight the ring looks even and well-placed.
The cone edge pattern remains to be done as well. Using the pen gets a bit easier over time. Once you realize that you are never going to get little blocks with perfectly square edges what remains is to get them the right size and control the paint.
I'm still wondering how to do the phase plugs.
The file size on above attachment seems adequate.
I gave a thin coat of the Modpodge/puzzlecoat to the Roland. Just enough to seal the fibers as Dave says. That dried overnight
Today I got the first null ring done on the Roland. Patience is hard to maintain when doing this. I had to quit after doing half of the pattern (one ring) for dry time and to make another template. Other option is fill in the remaining ring freehand after things dry.
Using the stealth paint which Ed provided is a hoot. When dried, I wonder if I did anything. Looking on edge and in backlight the ring looks even and well-placed.
The cone edge pattern remains to be done as well. Using the pen gets a bit easier over time. Once you realize that you are never going to get little blocks with perfectly square edges what remains is to get them the right size and control the paint.
I'm still wondering how to do the phase plugs.
Hadn't seen it dave. Oh well. On the plus side, I got decent cutting and cheap ply quality at lowes so base box construction is going quickly. There's some warping but proper glue-up processs will take care of that.
I've seen no discussion of stuffing. Also in question is the performance of the line as a whole- the nearfield measurement technique nelson used for the bass has an F6 just below 50Hz, I'd expect a line this size to give us an extra half-octave below that with line contribution.
pattern drift
I have to do a message rewrite here, lost a long one.
Today I did the null band pattern and the outer cone edge pattern on the Roland. (See description of finding the null band on a cone above.)
The Roland has a peculiar design. There is a lacquered edge on the cone. So the pattern is close to cone edge within a bit of variation.
I made the fresh pattern in this method of work:
I used Dave's generic 6.25 jpg from above and reduced it to 4 7/8 using a reduction scale and then running the copier. They help with this at Kinko's which has the reduction scale tool.
After cutting out the pattern I make a handle of folded tape across the diameter for removal after the pattern is made. One row of the pattern at edge gives the guide for making the second outer row.
Holding the speaker at a diagonal gives better light. So I use a bit of folded over masking tape (that has weak stickiness) on the pattern edge to hold it in place.
Doing this by eye I got a little pattern drift at the outer edge.
[Dave can you give the link to the phase plug and whizzer treatments. It's still a puzzle box trying to remember where this stuff is -- buried in other subjects.]
No luck finding a #99 nib but I only looked at Hobby Lobby.
I have to do a message rewrite here, lost a long one.
Today I did the null band pattern and the outer cone edge pattern on the Roland. (See description of finding the null band on a cone above.)
The Roland has a peculiar design. There is a lacquered edge on the cone. So the pattern is close to cone edge within a bit of variation.
I made the fresh pattern in this method of work:
I used Dave's generic 6.25 jpg from above and reduced it to 4 7/8 using a reduction scale and then running the copier. They help with this at Kinko's which has the reduction scale tool.
After cutting out the pattern I make a handle of folded tape across the diameter for removal after the pattern is made. One row of the pattern at edge gives the guide for making the second outer row.
Holding the speaker at a diagonal gives better light. So I use a bit of folded over masking tape (that has weak stickiness) on the pattern edge to hold it in place.
Doing this by eye I got a little pattern drift at the outer edge.
[Dave can you give the link to the phase plug and whizzer treatments. It's still a puzzle box trying to remember where this stuff is -- buried in other subjects.]
No luck finding a #99 nib but I only looked at Hobby Lobby.
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Bud's gallery
Budp,
I was just looking at your gallery. It shouldn't have been a big deal to find and I
maybe was there before.
After having (maybe) found the null spot on the Roland and made a pattern there, I wondered how you did the metal cone speakers?
I cannot say that I am much of an expert at tapping on cones but the Roland has that now.
On the whizzer I completed half a pattern. I'll finish that when a bout of tendonitis goes away. I'm keeping one Roland plain vanilla for listening differences.
Budp,
I was just looking at your gallery. It shouldn't have been a big deal to find and I
maybe was there before.
After having (maybe) found the null spot on the Roland and made a pattern there, I wondered how you did the metal cone speakers?
I cannot say that I am much of an expert at tapping on cones but the Roland has that now.
On the whizzer I completed half a pattern. I'll finish that when a bout of tendonitis goes away. I'm keeping one Roland plain vanilla for listening differences.
The metal cone speakers also tell you what they need, once you know to listen. You will find that all surfaces tell you the same sad story, once you will listen. Sort of like they have been waiting so long, for someone to hear them....
I wasn't sure I understood you to have found the gallery, so here is a link, just in case.
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine for all pics
Bud
I wasn't sure I understood you to have found the gallery, so here is a link, just in case.
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine for all pics
Bud
Well for me it may be more like talking to the hand:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk_to_the_hand_(expression)
Just a small joke.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk_to_the_hand_(expression)
Just a small joke.
musing of the day
I have done a few test patterns on my old and cheap speakers now.
But my musing of the day is that EnABL is thing you do to a Fostex before you throw it out. I can't help it, I'm like Cal Wheldon.
To further the process I purchased a t-amp-- the one branded by Parts Express as the DTA-1. I needed to do this anyway. I want to go digital and get my classical music off the computer in a manner similar to what Bob Brines does.
The DTA-1 hasn't arrived yet. But I think it will give a good test of the Roland EnABL job. Also the ability to use Ogg Vorbis codecs. But I am now off-topic.
I have done a few test patterns on my old and cheap speakers now.
But my musing of the day is that EnABL is thing you do to a Fostex before you throw it out. I can't help it, I'm like Cal Wheldon.
To further the process I purchased a t-amp-- the one branded by Parts Express as the DTA-1. I needed to do this anyway. I want to go digital and get my classical music off the computer in a manner similar to what Bob Brines does.
The DTA-1 hasn't arrived yet. But I think it will give a good test of the Roland EnABL job. Also the ability to use Ogg Vorbis codecs. But I am now off-topic.
G'day lon,
In my experience EnABL - when done properly - transfoms what I might describe as 'character flaws' in Fostex drivers into 'character traits'.
The key is Micro Gloss - not just a finishing coat, but in fact critical to bringing out the full potential of the EnABL process.
I encourage you to take a pair of cheap speakers that have EnABL applied and applying one coat daily of 50/50 Micro Gloss/water for 1-2 weeks - with listening tests in between each coat. On the way to Micro Glossing these cones to death, you will gain an invaluable insight into the power of the stuff.
Cheers,
Alex
pardon the snark, and maybe I'm too tired and obtuse to parse the subtext Lon, but just what are you trying to say?
Have you actually pulled the trigger and EnAbled a pair (or a hundred or so) of Fostex (and other) drivers, to buttress such a comment? (i.e the "throw it out" part)
I think this is where Cal would say "gentlemen...."
From my limited experience 😉 with Fostex full range drivers over the past 6 years or so (i.e. several years prior to "indoctrination" by the Purvinator), regardless of the musicality of source, class T, class A SS (mini Aleph in my case), or "gain-clone" chip amps are not necessarily the most synergistic of matches with the FE/FF & Sigma series - but they sure does love them those tube amps, and a minimal amount of signal manipulation.To further the process I purchased a t-amp-- the one branded by Parts Express as the DTA-1. I needed to do this anyway. I want to go digital and get my classical music off the computer in a manner similar to what Bob Brines does.
The DTA-1 hasn't arrived yet. But I think it will give a good test of the Roland EnABL job. Also the ability to use Ogg Vorbis codecs. But I am now off-topic.
PURVINATOR - (Schwarzenegger voice)
EnABL be back!
Your cones... give them to me, now
Hasta la vista, Rayleigh
I need your cones, nibs and your micro gloss
😀
Cheers,
Alex
This is the first I've heard that chip amps and Fostex aren't a good match. I enjoy the sound of my SI Gen2 with the speakers I've built but I haven't experimented with any other audiophile grade amps. Not all of us can afford a top notch tube amp so what would you suggest instead? Point me to another thread if it has already discussed BTW 🙂
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