Well, rub your arms and get all of those willy's out into the air.
Dave is the 126/127 expert. His comment is that if the glue bond between cone and center dome is continuous and filled right to the top of the crevasse, then a three ring pattern set is needed. If the glue joint is sunken into the crevasse then two, two ring, sets are needed, two rings on the cone and two on the center dome.
You do need the inner rings on this driver. It is only on the drivers with whizzer cones that you might not need these rings, or they may be further up on the cone surface, as will only be shown by a difficult to do tap test.
I would strongly suggest that you take a day off and go to a local hobby shop and look over their magnifying lens, eye shade style glasses. You can wear your normal glasses with them, they have two lens strengths and are binocular. Their real benefit comes from actually being able to see the ever finer dots, as you go down in circumference. And, they are less than $20 per glasses.
Bud
Dave is the 126/127 expert. His comment is that if the glue bond between cone and center dome is continuous and filled right to the top of the crevasse, then a three ring pattern set is needed. If the glue joint is sunken into the crevasse then two, two ring, sets are needed, two rings on the cone and two on the center dome.
You do need the inner rings on this driver. It is only on the drivers with whizzer cones that you might not need these rings, or they may be further up on the cone surface, as will only be shown by a difficult to do tap test.
I would strongly suggest that you take a day off and go to a local hobby shop and look over their magnifying lens, eye shade style glasses. You can wear your normal glasses with them, they have two lens strengths and are binocular. Their real benefit comes from actually being able to see the ever finer dots, as you go down in circumference. And, they are less than $20 per glasses.
Bud
I will give the target a good inspection before proceeding.
A concern I have is less about visibility than getting the dot size small enough. I have noted how the bead on the nib wants to stay a certain size.
Plus I have another small cone to practice on.
A concern I have is less about visibility than getting the dot size small enough. I have noted how the bead on the nib wants to stay a certain size.
Plus I have another small cone to practice on.
The size 66/99 nib (your choice in how to interpret those characters, assuming you can see them, as I cannot) has side curfs cut into the metal of the head, just before it becomes body. If you apply some pressure to the pen tip it will spread, in a very controllable fashion. This allows you to choose the size of dot you leave, so long as there is paint down at the tip and it will form a wet web across the nib tips as they spread. You can also use this characteristic to leave some startlingly thin lines, for very small blocks, rather than just blobs.
Bud
Bud
I recently joined Bud and dave in offering EnABL services for payment myself.
Although Bud has generously made his invention available to the diy community 'free for personal use', EnABL remains a patented process.
So I politely remind other "commercially-minded" folk to make arrangements with the patent owner before persuing a business venture.
Cheers,
Alex
Discussion from above was about 3 ring patterns and things. Here is the
mother load of all EnABL treatments. I enjoy looking at this to see the variations:
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine/
It prompts a question about the tap test:
Budp,
The larger drivers like the Nirvana on the Picassa link show multiple patterns.
Once one tap test is done and the pattern applied to, say the middle, is another tap test done to get additional null spots?
'Middle' is just for reference. When the tap test is done, the place on the cone is noted for pattern application.
mother load of all EnABL treatments. I enjoy looking at this to see the variations:
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine/
It prompts a question about the tap test:
Budp,
The larger drivers like the Nirvana on the Picassa link show multiple patterns.
Once one tap test is done and the pattern applied to, say the middle, is another tap test done to get additional null spots?
'Middle' is just for reference. When the tap test is done, the place on the cone is noted for pattern application.
Yes. The following ones can be found after the outer edge ring set and the mid cone ring set.
1.) Finding the actual best placement for an inner ring, assuming that one right at the voice coil to center dome is not needed. The lack of need for an inner ring here would be quite surprising, still it is possible.
For cones with domes that are not attached to the voice coil a ring may be needed at the cone / dome joint, or it may be needed further out on the cone. Regardless, a ring set will be needed at the beginning of the dome, on the dome.
When faced with a whizzer it is very likely that the inner ring will actually be near mid cone. Typically very near the same diameter as the outer edge of the whizzer. Some whizzered drivers have needed another ring set closer into the voice coil, well under the whizzer, and that is a pain in the ssa.
2. Once you have a mid cone ring and an outer ring, you can begin to look for spots where there is almost no sound when struck and very little, compared to just one side or the other of this dead zone,or no decay that goes in any direction, or even that happens at all. A ring in this place will bring the high frequencies closer in phase to the mids. Something clearly shown in Sonngsc's tests on a Jordan driver in the original thread.
3. On 8 inch drivers, out beyond the mid cone ring, though sometimes starting with it, a tap on the surface, that just brought you a small, localized sound and decay direction, will suddenly be quite a bit louder and seem to be coming from the entire circumference of the cone. This is an indication of a Raleigh wave, a circular wave motion that rings throughout the entire thickness of the cone, but only in the fairly narrow region at the outer 1/4 or less of the cone. A ring right at the beginning of this zone and a damping compound applied to the back side of the cone, in this area, will effectively kill these things. Alex has some fresh ideas on killing them and I believe he intends to pursue them shortly.
Then there are the ever unreasonable whizzer cones themselves.
Bud
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no clue
I must admit I have no clue as what a 99 nib is.
Lately I've done my hookups for some good listening tests with the DTA-1. The listening setup is still whacked but at least I removed the old amp which failed on one channel entirely. Still, I hate to throw things away. Maybe it's like drill bits: if you put them back in the box they get sharper.
🙂
I have some BIB box tweaks to settle off and so may be doing the Fostex soon. I have to get the inner ring process down for that though. Some good pics are at Budp's Picassa site for the details.
I must admit I have no clue as what a 99 nib is.
Lately I've done my hookups for some good listening tests with the DTA-1. The listening setup is still whacked but at least I removed the old amp which failed on one channel entirely. Still, I hate to throw things away. Maybe it's like drill bits: if you put them back in the box they get sharper.
🙂
I have some BIB box tweaks to settle off and so may be doing the Fostex soon. I have to get the inner ring process down for that though. Some good pics are at Budp's Picassa site for the details.
faith-based audio
Today I did the outer ring pattern on one of my Fostex 127e's. I knew the day was coming when I had to fish or cut bait.
The problem I ran into with this item treated with Damar (whole cone-- I didn't understand the right way at the time (6 months or more ago) is that I made a pattern with the stealth paint that all but vanished. That's why I call this subject faith-based audio.
The paint dries fast and, well, the dots were disappearing before my eyes as I went around the pattern. Jeez.
To do the second pattern on the outer ring I cut my template down to just show the inner ring. Then I positioned that template in direct sun light to judge where the bumps of paint were. On inspection I seem to have positioned the alternating ring ok, some spots not so much.
The end of a toothpick may work for the inner patterns. Smaller dots will dry even faster.
[time passes]
Inner ring pattern (a pair) is done.
Results will be questionable but for these one-off attempts with no do- overs,
I will be able to test by ear one treated and one untreated Fostex now with a t-amp that is installed.
Dome (dust cap) dots and things: I just made a single ring before I lost register of what I was doing. See above.
Toothpicks can make some pretty small dots. I didn't trust the fine point nib not to puncture the Fostex paper cone.
One question is how the Microscale will react to Damar and the Polyscale paint?
I'll put that on in a couple days. Or maybe not if there is a chemical reaction.
Today I did the outer ring pattern on one of my Fostex 127e's. I knew the day was coming when I had to fish or cut bait.
The problem I ran into with this item treated with Damar (whole cone-- I didn't understand the right way at the time (6 months or more ago) is that I made a pattern with the stealth paint that all but vanished. That's why I call this subject faith-based audio.
The paint dries fast and, well, the dots were disappearing before my eyes as I went around the pattern. Jeez.
To do the second pattern on the outer ring I cut my template down to just show the inner ring. Then I positioned that template in direct sun light to judge where the bumps of paint were. On inspection I seem to have positioned the alternating ring ok, some spots not so much.
The end of a toothpick may work for the inner patterns. Smaller dots will dry even faster.
[time passes]
Inner ring pattern (a pair) is done.
Results will be questionable but for these one-off attempts with no do- overs,
I will be able to test by ear one treated and one untreated Fostex now with a t-amp that is installed.
Dome (dust cap) dots and things: I just made a single ring before I lost register of what I was doing. See above.
Toothpicks can make some pretty small dots. I didn't trust the fine point nib not to puncture the Fostex paper cone.
One question is how the Microscale will react to Damar and the Polyscale paint?
I'll put that on in a couple days. Or maybe not if there is a chemical reaction.
The gloss coat will work perfectly with the Damar and Puzzlecoat finishes.
One thing you can do, to help with registration when using stealth paint, is to make tiny marks on the cone in a barely visible paint or ink, which line up with a start bar drawn on the pattern rings. Once you are confident in your penmanship..... you can use a single pattern for both rows by applying two lower blocks and then an upper in between them to begin with. Then apply the next lower block and then the next upper block around the cone. Again, a start bar and registration dot can help a lot here.
The sharp pen points are not a problem with a fiber cone. You do not need to point them straight down at the surface. If you apply them at an angle, though it can be a steep angle, the dots will be just fine. A benefit of this angle is that you can control dot size by how much pressure you apply to the pen tip. It will spread nicely, without damaging the surface.
Bud
One thing you can do, to help with registration when using stealth paint, is to make tiny marks on the cone in a barely visible paint or ink, which line up with a start bar drawn on the pattern rings. Once you are confident in your penmanship..... you can use a single pattern for both rows by applying two lower blocks and then an upper in between them to begin with. Then apply the next lower block and then the next upper block around the cone. Again, a start bar and registration dot can help a lot here.
The sharp pen points are not a problem with a fiber cone. You do not need to point them straight down at the surface. If you apply them at an angle, though it can be a steep angle, the dots will be just fine. A benefit of this angle is that you can control dot size by how much pressure you apply to the pen tip. It will spread nicely, without damaging the surface.
Bud
Thanks Budp,
Yes I have noticed the small amount of spread the dots and bars will make
before drying.
Tomorrow or so I'll apply the Microgloss coat at 50/50 with water.
I decided to do this one since I had the BIB apart and something with glue on it was drying.
But between not being able to hear and not being able to see I have to consider this experiment as an experiment. I don't doubt my own hearing but doing this solo I have no idea when it's right. I have not got my ears educated to what to look for as you mentioned earlier.
Yes I have noticed the small amount of spread the dots and bars will make
before drying.
Tomorrow or so I'll apply the Microgloss coat at 50/50 with water.
I decided to do this one since I had the BIB apart and something with glue on it was drying.
But between not being able to hear and not being able to see I have to consider this experiment as an experiment. I don't doubt my own hearing but doing this solo I have no idea when it's right. I have not got my ears educated to what to look for as you mentioned earlier.
don't drink the water
Our water is pretty good here. If you do not boil both together, what is the purpose of doing it? The last bunch I mixed up (just a cap full of each) it seemed to go on ok-- pretty runny though.
Our water is pretty good here. If you do not boil both together, what is the purpose of doing it? The last bunch I mixed up (just a cap full of each) it seemed to go on ok-- pretty runny though.
G'day lon,
AFAIK there's nothing wrong with the water here either.
Cooled boiled water just seems to combine better with the Micro Gloss than straight from the tap.
Cheers,
Alex
AFAIK there's nothing wrong with the water here either.
Cooled boiled water just seems to combine better with the Micro Gloss than straight from the tap.
Cheers,
Alex
weak paper dust caps
I was fooling around with putting the puzzlecoat on one of my inexpensive Pioneer 4 inchers. I had not experienced the problem of denting a dust cap dome before with just a brush. A very light touch and caution is given to those performing these modifications. The Fostex banana paper holds up much better than the Pioneer paper cones.
On the FE127e, I got the coat of Microgloss on. I have to consider that one done.
For my raw FE127e, I spent some time analyzing how my template for the trifoil pattern should be lined up with the cone wires-- actually how to make sure the cone wire dimples (I do not know the real name for these things) do not interfere with applying the trifoil pattern.
With all this there are many things that can be overlooked when doing one of these jobs with no "do-overs" or spoilage margin. It is still hard for me to catch them all.
I was fooling around with putting the puzzlecoat on one of my inexpensive Pioneer 4 inchers. I had not experienced the problem of denting a dust cap dome before with just a brush. A very light touch and caution is given to those performing these modifications. The Fostex banana paper holds up much better than the Pioneer paper cones.
On the FE127e, I got the coat of Microgloss on. I have to consider that one done.
For my raw FE127e, I spent some time analyzing how my template for the trifoil pattern should be lined up with the cone wires-- actually how to make sure the cone wire dimples (I do not know the real name for these things) do not interfere with applying the trifoil pattern.
With all this there are many things that can be overlooked when doing one of these jobs with no "do-overs" or spoilage margin. It is still hard for me to catch them all.
Does denting the dust cap on a FR driver say, FE127E, affect the sonics? I know its aesthetically bad, but is it worse than that?
keep it clean
The dust cap is there to keep dust out. And repair is possible with a piece of tape to pull it out and some have suggested using a vacuum cleaner nozzle
under a lot of pressure. On many of these Pioneers, I have removed the dust cap to put in home brew phase plugs.
Some say sound improves without the dust cap on there.
I believe you can live with it. Look for example at the recent update of the driver pictures file. There's more than one on there with dented paper and metal dust caps.
The dust cap is there to keep dust out. And repair is possible with a piece of tape to pull it out and some have suggested using a vacuum cleaner nozzle
under a lot of pressure. On many of these Pioneers, I have removed the dust cap to put in home brew phase plugs.
Some say sound improves without the dust cap on there.
I believe you can live with it. Look for example at the recent update of the driver pictures file. There's more than one on there with dented paper and metal dust caps.
Thanks loni...I may have dented one of my drivers last night as I was applying the ModPodge...I managed to get it back about 95% with a soda bottle that I cut a hole in the bottom of...You cant notice it unless you are right up to the driver...frustrating though...ugh...
The dust cap in many drivers is an integral part of the construction, and necessary for high frequency response.
Know the driver before hacking.
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