Dx Precision, finally released... now debugged and better than HRII

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Each case is different, each person different, also speakers, tastes,

home acoustics (some houses are a mess about that) and the kind or audio sources.

Billabong you are free to do with your boards whatever you want do to and think it is correct or better to you.

Not only Billa, but all of you are free to install, into your personall constructions, the capacitor you decide as the better one to your needs... and be happy!

To the ones needs some advices, i am informing what i have found....if my opinion has some value, so take it as reference or not.

But the real decision must be taken listening, testing, replacing and them you gonna have something tuned to your ears, speaker, home acoustics, personal taste and kind of audio source..also musical program material, kind of music.

We are talking about sound reproduction, sonics, quality...not talking about beliefs.... or people ideas, or highly technically precise things.... sound....to human ear, to your ear.

This is Do It Yourself...... so, was made for people that do things, test things, explore new ideas, test new values, checking rules and theories,.... to DO is the main objective, not to talk or discuss or argue...to DO.... soldering iron into the rigth hand, or left hand and working into boards and having experiences about.

So.... DO it the way you want!

Carlos
 
Rabbitz use to build his speakers and when he try a new amplifier

he use to tweak the speaker crossover to try to match the amplifier, sometimes not possible and then he use to return the bad amplifier to the factory.... money back!

He is much more experienced than i am... and exactly into the weakest point we have into the High Fidelity chain.... the speakers.

It is easier to match the speaker to the amplifier than the opposite, and sometimes not possible, some amplifier just do not like to have any kind of conversation with speakers.. designed by personel that tested into instruments and found it wonderfull...but when plugged into the speakers...heheheheheh....only they found the unit good!.... there are those cases, and Rabbitz have lived this experience, once again into last weeks.... i think he will not comment not to burn a famous factory name and a famous designer name.

He tried several speakers... he tuned all them.... and found the sound strange.... then he imagined the amplifier was damaged... sent to the repair, to the service, and returned bad as always..... because it is bad...just that!.... this happens.... people do things watching instruments, feel happy with low IMD and THD and them put the speaker, observe sound strange and wait seconds to the ears to adjust the mess...and them evaluate as good or excelent...and the unit not good....first 4 seconds...you see the true and do not let the brain adjust nothing....just do not give time to the brain to do his work.

When you go replacing capacitors, very fast, into A to B method, you do not give time to the brain to adjust..... the burn in period, is not more than your brain to adjust..... switch it on and off and you gonna see the truth.

Belief is the bad thing we have, also pride to think we are good..that we have good ears, that we have musical memory...those things are the nigthmare, as only create mess..and those folks are not happy too, so big the mess they create into their imagination to themselves.

A friend have bougth a heavy supply...he found the supply strong.... we made the joke with him because his idiotics beliefs.... we put a normal transformer...just the enougth...and together, very well glued into the chassis, a stone.... heavy!...he found excelent..... them we explained him.... we have opened and removed the stone....he said that was already perceiving that something was not very good...ahahahahha...just pride!

Some folks, if you put a teflon condenser... ready!.... sound is good!

regards,

Carlos
 
Re: Re: Re: Public apologize folks...i am an idiot

AndrewT said:
using small speakers that roll off @ 60Hz, I can hear the difference between F-3dB=8Hz and F-3dB=2Hz.
I much prefer the sound when using F-3dB<=2Hz and have settled on using input filter set to 90mS (F-3dB=1.8Hz). I use the same filtering for amplifiers feeding bass only speakers and for Sub-bass speakers.

for 90mS the R & C components are simply multiplied together to obtain the RC time constant.
i.e. Zin=47k and Cin=2u2F gives RC=103mS (47,000*2.2^10-6=0.103).

Remember, that the DC blocking capacitor in the source must be taken into account if both capacitors are operating as high pass filters. i.e series caps add like resistors in parallel.

For F-3dB=1.8Hz (RC=90mS) to work correctly, the NFB RC must be set to >=130mS and the PSU RC must be set to >=180mS. i.e. smoothing capacitance per channel >=+-22mF for 8ohm speakers.

Excellent post. Thanks Andrew! I guess a 4-ohm load would require double the smoothing capacitance. Ouch$$.

..Todd
 
Only you dear TAJ, to make me read "the calculator" messages

you have copied and pasted!...... ahahahaha.

Oh!.... he said that to the condensers?..... delayed, i am saying that since last year.... Self told that years before i did, and others years before he did.... i use to be a parrot repeating those things..good that we have one more...... to repeat.

Let him return to the cave dear TAJ, in peace, cave of wine and fromages, the milenium place to old souls.

Tell me dear TAJ, do you think this man have built something in his life... say.... the last 200 years?

The image show how i am surprised with the electrolitic condenser to 4 ohms..... really?

Vade retrum!... revertere ad locum tum!

heheheh

regards,

Carlos
 

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Re: Only you dear TAJ, to make me read "the calculator" messages

destroyer X said:
you have copied and pasted!...... ahahahaha.

Oh!.... he said that to the condensers?..... delayed, i am saying that since last year.

Tell me dear TAJ, do you think this man have built something in his life... say.... the last 200 years?

heheheh

regards,

Carlos


Stop it Carlos. He provided some very worthwhile information. He answered my question in a very helpful way. Not just yes or no, but explained some of the basic math. I appreciate that.

I have only built one amplifier so far, but I spent 15 years listening carefully in the recording and mastering studio and mixed over 2700 concerts. I understand sound (like you, maybe more) and music, but I don't understand circuits, so I value that basic information.

peace :yinyang:

..Todd
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Public apologize folks...i am an idiot

taj said:
I guess a 4-ohm load would require double the smoothing capacitance.
if you accept the logic of that sequence of decision making then it follows that F-3db~=1.8Hz for 4ohm speakers requires +-45mF on each channel.
Not everyone agrees, but it's what I've found to work. 15//15//15mF on every power rail for 4ohm capability.
Bought mine in bulk from the US, about 2F worth from that capacitor guy.
 
Sorry by that TAJ, to bother you

Forum has 96 thousand folks....only this one bothers me.

Because do not build things... do not expose himself and go exploring the other folks failures, under that sittuation of cooperator.

If the man show me one thing build, or tell that cannot build because have a broken hand or other problem i would accept him better.

This is a Do It Yourself forum dear TAJ.... to people that Do things, not only talk things or Evaluate or Simulate.

I use to work hard to cooperate with folks, i feel good, this is my payment, and i have opened threads, i have built amplifiers, have passed all information gladly and for free.... I have earned no shilling or pennie or dollar because of that....but i did the correct to DIY audio forum.

Others feel they have the rigth to go hidden, without expose themselves, evaluating other guy's work without be invited for that.

Will stop....but please, do not invite him to this thread..let him go in peace, there are other places he can be more helpfull.

There are hundreds alike me that do not like this behavior into DO IT YOURSELF forum.... we are more than 90 thousand.... just one i have strong reserves about....cannot say i am anti social.

They use to write to me supporting my reaction, unfortunattely they have no courage to expose their feelings the way i use to do...so...seems i am the only one.

I could read moderator suggesting:

- "hey, what about to build something"

regards,

Carlos
 
I think that's irrational Carlos. Not professional. Your emotions are controlling your brain. You know how that affects peoples' judgement of audio and amplifier brands.

Continue to 'ignore' if you don't like Andrew or his responses, but I think your public reaction is irrational. :judge: I promise not to quote Andrew's replies again, but discouraging his participation here would be counterproductive to the rest of us.

😎

..Todd
 
Denial. :clown:

Seriously, I will try 1uf and 2uf and electrolytic 10uf and form my own opinion about what is worthwhile to worry about. Sadly, it will be months before I can work on amps again, or risk getting beat up by my wife :fight:

..Todd
 
As always, it is a conundrum, without the years of trials and errors and sucsesses Carlos has, the rest of us only have the language of math to communicate basic operational principles...

I ALWAYS find Andrew's comments and information helpfull, accurate and I don't think he has ever been pointed out as haveing made a theory error here...

Some of us needs math, needs science, need graphs ad theories... in fact without them, we'd be out there in the bush sharpening our stone axes for a hunt.

I think Andrew is smarter than the two of us, none of his ideas are being copied and sold without his permision...

I think there is place and need for all types, those who theorise and those who prove and disprove the theories through actions...

We should try and get past belief, and like you said DO, and listen...undo and listen again... We must not believe, we must listen. If I start believeing x or y component sounds better just because of the price or brand, it will probably sound better to me... on the other face of the coin, if you believe all components are the same, you may FORCE yourself to ignore or deny atcual improvements if they do occur due to a part selection... It is better to just listen...

For me there is a bit of of funny period when listening to a new amp, it is easy to get emotionaly carried away with it then... luckily I move slow like a cameleon... When I get it right... the music may strike me one morning while working in the house, and I would be like "YEAH!!! that sounded good", or I would suddenly find myself disillusioned, becomming aware of a veil... With the positive moves the amount of Yeah moments increases... the amount of time spend actively listening to music increases....
 
Dear Space 2000, can i see pictures of your speaker,

your face, dog, neighboors, bicicle, automobile, wife, children, house, sky, building, houses, plants, cats and whole thing?

I have some empathy about you..... i really appreciate you, reason why i started to make jokes with you... a Brazilian way.... respect and distance is something we give only to enemies.

Our culture is different.

While in Japan, i have someone taking care of me all time long i was there in Sony.... long time with the guy with me.

Once he told me that i was important and he had order to do whatever i want, to give me everything i need.

As a Brazilian, i started a joke immediatelly, i have pointed the other side of the street and a Mazda (wankel engine) ...beautifull yellow car was there.... very expensive....i said very serious...

- "I want that one, and now!... do not want to walk anymore or use subway....i am not happy..very tired!"

The man changed the face colour...

-"Oh!... Sony has cars, not needed that one, i can pick a limousine at Sony with a driver for us all day long, and for those monthes you will be here with us"

Then i told him was kidding.

One day he said:

- "You do not like me, do not appreciate me, you do not respect me!"

them i have explained...the opposite, we have broken barriers when we start to be kidding one each other.... we, Brazilians, we do not even smile to the ones we do not like.... if i am kidding is because you mind to me, because i like you and want you as a brother.

Years ago i entered to Sony, he called me from Tokyo, by phone, my "maid" was a big boss those early days....he said that wanted me to buy a Ship to him.

We laugh a lot!

My boss...... Yoshida

Gimme the pleasure to know you more dear Space, send pictures or links to picture to:

panzertoo@yahoo.com

Carlos
 
Oh!... now Nordic wants Mathematics...good to the ones needs an easier

short cut to the know how.

But is a wrong way Nordic.... sound is not numbers, it is analogic, vibrations into the air.... need listening experience, more and more and more.

Good numbers do not guarantee good sound...but good evaluation made by experienced folks, into A to B.... and even non experienced folks shows the quality.

But you have evoluted, have learned a lot, and now a days have knowledge enougth to detect some small errors or no logical consistences into other folks design.... will enter other side club...not my side man.

You must do your own design, as you already have knowledge to that, to jump to another level, a more practice level... and do that by yourself in the place to be helping Dx or other folks.

I have to thank you by the enormous help you gave me, and the offer to make an amplifier to you, the basic one, and then you go evolute it to make it the way you want.

The forum has enougth informations about the Precision, the HRII and the Dx Amplifier..... soon Greg will provide Precision data too, and maybe others in the future, depending on his will and time to spent on that.

You can use half or more than half of Dx home page, as now a days is loosing some value, people already bougth, now assembling and the follow up will be better than the home page...already made the main work....maybe you prefer to keep it there, no problems to me.

But i really think you should put it as secondary, second page, and to start you real adress.... Nico's amp dot com...or something.

I think, in my point of view, the service was almost done...mission acomplished...you can explore HRII and Precision I... also the Precision II the way you want... just do not change a part value, keeping the original schematic the way it is.

The Student now grown up and is a doctor...you are free to follow your own destiny.

regards,

Carlos
 
Hi carlos,

I am using kenwood speaker original setup. It has two woofer one twtr and one mid. Two woofer is 16ohms so its give me 8ohms total, just nice. Speaker is 120w each.

I am using panasonic DVD player to listen song and the equalizer is kenwood 27 band.

I will post more pic until I complete my amp. I can’t make the box as like others. But I put it in wooden box as I construct my own. May be not nice too. I don’t care about the nice, I like sound quality.

I am not an electronics enigneer. Here I don’t have any friends who knows electronics things. I am doing completely my own into different world. Nothing advice from my any friends around here. Only I have advice from all of you in this forum. That’s why I had to ask many questions until I can solve it.

I want to change my speaker but I can’t find the good one until now. Here is not easy to find speaker. Those are made from china, I don’t like it. I am still waiting to find good speaker.

I don’t mind any joke from you, as long I can learn things.

Best regards.
michael



speaker.jpg
 
hi,

I just made my equalizer nice tune to producing nice sweet balanced sound.

Thanks carlos for your circuit design and help too....

i am still keen to make another amp. All for to keep my own. I am still waiting for your next precision version.

Also want to make a “CLASS A” amp, still searching for circuit design (easy one with transistor). I never made like (dx prc-I) so powerful amp in my life. I just want to see how the sound quality comes from class A (really good). I can’t make too complicated amp like many types of voltage power supply used.

Best regards
michael
 
You're right Carlos that it's a lot easier to tune a speaker to an amplifier than the other way around.

I received a refund on the other amp and unfortuneately never found out what is sounded like which is a shame. I'm sure there was rail voltage or biasing problems.

I have another amp (a cheap one) I picked up today that has some quartz halogen globes inside. It replaces my Pioneer A400X in the office. I'll send you an email on it.
 
Yes Space... I am also trying and trying and trying

and searching and searching for the perfection...i have found 13 nice amplifiers, including mine one (or blessed or biased)...but still searching the best possible sonics.

I think the answer may be into Nelson Pass pages, seems to me that simple sounds better..... i have not built his amplifiers because FET transistors (now i have them... and a lot of them...because gift from Duda, a nice forum friend) and because of the heat...and this is the main problem into a place like mine...temperature around 30 degrees during summer, winter, autumn and spring.

Also in 2004 i have asked some opinions of the sonic differences between his amplifiers and JLH famous unit, the one several hundred of forum folks have built...he said had never listened...hummm...i found that so snobish... and so distant from the true that i decided to keep distance not to have a frontal (other) crash with him..... people said he is fine, no snobish, that maybe he never had time to listen (do not believe that).... well...i use to follow my instincts...animal perception..when i sniff something strange i do not use to go to check...all times i did that i had problems..so...i use to follow what i "Feel into the air"...and this is never totally precise.

All the year hot....very unconfortable to have a heater amplifier inside my hoem...if i switch those amplifiers i have to go out from the house or to put the amplifier out from the house...but has not conditions to stay both of us at the same place, same time.

I feel class A interesting, but i have worries about dinamics and saturation....the headroom.....but i feel sounds great and have built several units..including the famous 1969 JLH amplifier, the one i suggest you to listen, to build and to explore...have some upgrades very interesting, and the last upgrade published is gread...Jeff something.... Jeff home pages....has those amplifiers there....Jeff Moss....or something alike this name...Jeoff Moss....do not remember, but forum folks may remember because they are younger and have better memory, have only to ask them.

I agree into the search, into try new thing, and i really thank you be the preference and value into my amplifier because your intention to try the next one i may produce (not sure to make something even better)

Go into your long search my dear...i am doing this last 47 years...well..the interest started listening Little Red Hat and the big bad wolf when i had 4 years old and had an RCA turntable in my room playing all day....front was transparent kind of plastic (1955) with white lamps behind...was some fishes swiming the image..had one knob to on off and other to volume... a tube unit with internal speaker...RCA.... the dog listening was there into the panel...nice...great...lovely....wonderfull....sweet rememberings..that has some sound, some smell and some peace.

regards,

Carlos


.......................................................................................................

Rabbitz

I am deeply interested into your things, your pictures, your ideas, your feeling, your thougths, you interests, our friendship and your amplifiers.

All you can send me will be very, very, very welcome.

regards,

Carlos
 
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