I am evaluating DSP options for a 4-way active speaker. The MiniDSP 4x10HD is an obvious choice, the performance is good, and the price is nice.
What other options are out there? I need 2 input channels (analog) and 8 output channels (analog). Either balanced XLR or unbalanced RCA is fine. Spdif / toslink digital inputs are a nice plus, but not necessary.
Thanks !
What other options are out there? I need 2 input channels (analog) and 8 output channels (analog). Either balanced XLR or unbalanced RCA is fine. Spdif / toslink digital inputs are a nice plus, but not necessary.
Thanks !
The MiniDSP Flex Eight has better performance and more options than the 4x10HD in the MiniDSP range.
A USB pro audio interface or 8 Channel DAC with software works very well if the source is a computer and offers ultimate flexibility but is not necessarily as straightforward to use.
A USB pro audio interface or 8 Channel DAC with software works very well if the source is a computer and offers ultimate flexibility but is not necessarily as straightforward to use.
From:
https://www.loudspeakers.audio/en/faq/
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Others listed here:
https://eclipseaudio.com/fir-capable-products/
Reference:
https://www.loudspeakers.audio
Editied: miniDSP openDRC and 4x10HD discontinued.
PS.
I have used Flex 8 since release. Ask away if you have any questions
https://www.loudspeakers.audio/en/faq/
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- QSC QSYS, max 16384 taps per channel (with max total about 4×8192 for model Core110F), completely configurable, multichannel ie 8in/16out , very very complete features but a bit costly (about 4000€ for the smaller Core110F)
- Trinnov, max (about) 4096 taps per channel (with total depending on stereo or multichannel model), high end product but you can only use Trinnov’s own software to mesure and EQ, not cheap (starts at 4000€ for stereo models)
- MiniDSP OpenDRC, max 6144 taps per channel (with total of 2×6144), cheap and stable, only available with digital I/O, less than 300€
- MiniDSP 2x4HD or Flex, max 2048 taps per channel (with total of 4096 for all channels), both cheap. For the Flex model, you need FIR correction file at 96kHz.
- Xilica Solaro QR1 or FR1, max 4096 taps per channel (with max total of 6×4096 but FIR cannot be loaded into presets so cannot be changed on the fly, contrary to QSys), completely configurable (not far from QSYS) with choice of different I/O boards and nice possibilities to remote with Ipad or Android tablets, (increased !) prices start at about 2000€ for QR1 (8 slots for I/O boards) and 3000€ for FR1 (16 slots) without I/O boards (analog boards are reasonably priced, strange that AES is highly priced). Note that those processor can ran at 96kHz but the FIR length is still 4096 taps so less efficient in the lows…
- t.racks FIR DSP408 : max 2048 taps per channel limited to a total of 4096 taps for all channels together but quite cheap, under 800€
Others listed here:
https://eclipseaudio.com/fir-capable-products/
Reference:
https://www.loudspeakers.audio
Editied: miniDSP openDRC and 4x10HD discontinued.
PS.
I have used Flex 8 since release. Ask away if you have any questions
What's the sonic benefit of the Flex eight over the 4x10HD? I've used the 4x10HD for prototyping for years, but I recognize it is not the highest sonic quality out there. I do wonder though if some of that is due to me only using the analog in and out. I should try all digital.
yeah, digital quality as its analog outputs really matter for sound quality.
Motu 5 maybe as well.
But the flex if no analog input is needed is the choice for you has you have some habits with Minidsp already.
Basicly, good multichannel dac is what you need to go a step beyond from what you have already! OctoDAC pro second hand too as a choice according stereophile but not cheaper than the flex8
Motu 5 maybe as well.
But the flex if no analog input is needed is the choice for you has you have some habits with Minidsp already.
Basicly, good multichannel dac is what you need to go a step beyond from what you have already! OctoDAC pro second hand too as a choice according stereophile but not cheaper than the flex8
in terms of D/A conversion vs 4x10 probably nothing audibly distinguishable that's worth writing home about, IMHO. At least if you're not a write for a magazine/online publication.
I got it because I waited too long to get the 4x10HD (had been using nanoDigi since 2013) and it 4x10HD was discontinued by the time I decided to dive in and get a all-in-one fully featured device. I haven't used analog in for a long time so missing it wasn't a a deal breaker. Besides it's got Bluetooth and USB input so you can prototype and play direct from your PC your XO. It would be nice if it did have analog but I find myself using analog much less these days.
It's got a more powerful DSP that can do FIR so you can do linear phase filters.
Supply chains have improved and I think Okto Dac 8 and MOTU Ultralite mk5 are now in stock, which wasn't the case when I put my order in in June 2022. I cancelled both when the Flex 8 arrived earlier. My point is I strongly feel they essentially all do the same thing in terms of crossovers/prototyping, including the miniDSP C-DSP 8x12 V2; it just depends on the feature set and cost.
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The other point to make about computer-based DSP is that the latency will be many times that of a hardware DSP. For a hardware DSP (e.g. miniDSP) the latency might be 2-4 milliseconds. For computer based DSP this might be 50-500 milliseconds. This only really matters if you intend or want to combine the audio with video e.g. as part of a home theater system. For audio only it doesn't matter at all.
Charlielaub, did you notice big sounding difference for loudspeakers filter between a UMC1820 and a Motu 5 ?
edit: btw I lurked on this as an UMC18820 as it will be used for designing filter proto only before passive : https://www.thomann.de/fr/esi_gigap...MIqaaHv9Cx-wIV_41oCR3HLAiCEAQYASABEgK71_D_BwE
https://www.esi-audio.com/products/gigaporthd/ as well
edit: btw I lurked on this as an UMC18820 as it will be used for designing filter proto only before passive : https://www.thomann.de/fr/esi_gigap...MIqaaHv9Cx-wIV_41oCR3HLAiCEAQYASABEgK71_D_BwE
https://www.esi-audio.com/products/gigaporthd/ as well
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hum forget ESi devices, seems too much noisy. B. UMC1820 or Focusrite Scarlett18i20 perhaps on the cheap side.
With carefully chosen buffers and direct hardware access the latency does not have to be as high as you suggest, but you are absolutely right that it can be a problem. I have in the past I played Virtual Instruments and triggered computer based drum samples with low enough latency to be able to play in real time, that needs to be under 10ms end to end and lower is better. Jriver has the ability to delay the video to the audio but that only works with already stored video.
True, only the 4 channel one does.
This one is the only other from MiniDSP that seems to fit the requirements
https://www.minidsp.com/products/car-audio-dsp/c-dsp-8x12
According to the manual its only pair of digital output does not support Delay (so I held back from buying it). Can still send midrange or HF (but not both) to a better DAC, the rest analogue with Delay. Two units could output mid+hi digitally but no Delay kills the idea dead.
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My budget is $600 - $1200 for 8 channels (i.e. stereo).
I do use a dedicated Windows computer when listening to high resolution audio, but I also do a significant amount of listening with CDs and video sources, i.e. smart TV and blue ray player.... And I listen to vinyl also. So I need a preamp to switch between all the sources, and to handle the phono RIAA equalization. The DSP unit will have to slide between my preamp and the amps.
Thanks for all the replies so far.
I do use a dedicated Windows computer when listening to high resolution audio, but I also do a significant amount of listening with CDs and video sources, i.e. smart TV and blue ray player.... And I listen to vinyl also. So I need a preamp to switch between all the sources, and to handle the phono RIAA equalization. The DSP unit will have to slide between my preamp and the amps.
Thanks for all the replies so far.
what not to like : https://motu.com/products/avb/ultralite-avb ...and USA ! (though I assume Far east plant)
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If I use Hypex fusion plate amps, an FA252 and FA122 per side will meet my needs. That is about $1100 per side, but it includes DSP and amplifiers... and I am very familiar with this product.
I am exploring other options, starting with a standalone DSP unit. All opinions are welcome.
I am exploring other options, starting with a standalone DSP unit. All opinions are welcome.
that's also call for standalone Hypex multichannels amp devices alternative (boxed with analog inputs and or digital multichannel input-hdmi?-)
What is great with the professional soundcard is you have your double channel mic stuff with phantom power for acurate measurement (latency). Analog inputs for your analog pre out that rules all your AVD devices at home. And digital inputs for managing further DSP, room correction and improve a standalone digital playback device (streamer) that avoid you an analogic to numeric conversion. The quality of your playback will also be improved by that IME.
With Hypex you have great amp but you are dependant of their ADC/DAC ! You also may want a day to improve the amps; for illustration stay with hypex in the low end and try class A for the treble and mid.
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I got this without FIR, the basic version. Its been working fine for few months I've had it hooked up and noise floor is acceptable (quite high sensitivity speakers), not sure about absolute quality, price was cheap like 300€ two years ago and its fine for the price.
Few things to note:
- settings are not too flexible, compared to Sigmastudio I had ealier. On DIY multiway speakers I've bumped into two issues: only 8 EQ per output channel. Inputs don't have matrix so running second pair of speakers (to A / B) on spare inputs and outputs require y-split on the input wires to route same sound to inputs 3-4. Point is to skip input processing I have set on inputs 1-2 for the DIY speakers due to limited EQ on the outputs. Perhaps the FIR version skips these issues altogether.
- noisy fan, had to replace it with a silent one AND cut proper hole on the chassis to get rid of wind noise. Bye bye warranty if you need it silent.
- no FIR capability, which I think is silly for DIY activities, I was too cheap saving on it.
- brief one or two second mute time while recalling presets, bit annoying trying to A / B settings.
Watching mark100 postings and how flexible the Qsys system is makes this look like a stone age tool. If you are looking to buy DSP for DIY speaker activities I highly recommend one of these highly flexible systems, some ADAU chip based systems so Sigmastufio stuff, or the Qsys looks even better because you can make a custom remote UI for it as well. Something computer based could be even better / bit cheaper. If you get 8 AD/DA for computer you can of course route external sources through it like the CD player, turn table, Casio, Karaoke, so on 🙂
All that said the system sounds better than ever so its not garbage, just another lesson that one gets what one pays for 🙂
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Are we talking about the same product?
If so, Flex 8 doesn't contain digital outputs.
It only has unbalanced analog outputs (8 channels) and digital inputs inputs.
Reference:
https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-flex-eight
This is how I use it it works (thanks Jim!)
No Airplay
No analog in
No balanced outputs