@ Allen and Dave, thx guys for the comments on Olsons's work. Smart dude he was!
@ freddi, Yes. felt around drivers was one of the few things I've found makes for a positive consistent difference.
Ignoring looks, I think best practice for sonics might be to flush mount drivers with felt around the drivers, at the same thickness of the driver flanges
...and maybe even covering the entire baffle.
@ freddi, Yes. felt around drivers was one of the few things I've found makes for a positive consistent difference.
Ignoring looks, I think best practice for sonics might be to flush mount drivers with felt around the drivers, at the same thickness of the driver flanges
...and maybe even covering the entire baffle.
It is up to anyone to decide what factor he feels is important and what not. Anyway, if we do not know the factors, how can we build good (state of the DIYS art) speaker? For some this is the plan. Not just some box making noise.
Any time someone mentiones what is better for a build, for example bracing a cabinet, someone feels the need to troll and denies it's audiability.
Take anything, from crossover parts to cabinet material. You can water down anything we know into irrelevance.
Today, we are in the vavorable position to know hardly all "secret's" of speaker building. Even the border to Voodoo is quite clear.
Never was solid measuring so easy for anyone.
For my first measuring system I could have bought a used car or go on vacation to Italy for 3 weeks. Today you can get such results for less than 40€.
Still people insist not to need it. OK, that is the freedom of DIYS.
Any time someone mentiones what is better for a build, for example bracing a cabinet, someone feels the need to troll and denies it's audiability.
Take anything, from crossover parts to cabinet material. You can water down anything we know into irrelevance.
Today, we are in the vavorable position to know hardly all "secret's" of speaker building. Even the border to Voodoo is quite clear.
Never was solid measuring so easy for anyone.
For my first measuring system I could have bought a used car or go on vacation to Italy for 3 weeks. Today you can get such results for less than 40€.
Still people insist not to need it. OK, that is the freedom of DIYS.
I‘m probably a troll according to you, but the last sentence could be changed to
“Never was solid measuring so easy to misinterpret“ Especially measuring at home and drawing conclusions…
One good thing about DIY is we don't have to care much what other people think of our projects and efforts.
You've just bored a hole in your baffle and created a puck you won't use anymore, but you're concerned about using 5% more wood to rebate the hole?
I love it! 🙂
One negative aspect of rebating is your screws have about one-third less meat to grab on to.
Over time, and experimentation, that might be an issue. But, we always have hurricane nuts to save the situation. Whew!
Dave.
You've just bored a hole in your baffle and created a puck you won't use anymore, but you're concerned about using 5% more wood to rebate the hole?
I love it! 🙂
One negative aspect of rebating is your screws have about one-third less meat to grab on to.
Over time, and experimentation, that might be an issue. But, we always have hurricane nuts to save the situation. Whew!
Dave.
Driver recessing / rebating makes a difference... the data is there to support it as indicated in earlier posts.
My take on it however is this... if you are making the effort to build you may as well build to the best of your ability and cover all the bases.
Incremental improvements add up.
Things like rebating drivers, relief cuts at rear of driver cutout, type and positioning of damping, using damping or not, ensuring joints are airtight, non rigid baffle mounting, no parallel surfaces, internal bracing / baffles, etc.
Maybe build two enclosures, one quick and one involved and check if you actually hear a difference.
A measurable difference may not be audible so you should be able to make a determination as to whether or not the extra effort is worth it to you.
Think of it like pocket change, it's neither here nor there until you fill a container and then you have enough to do something worthwhile with.
My take on it however is this... if you are making the effort to build you may as well build to the best of your ability and cover all the bases.
Incremental improvements add up.
Things like rebating drivers, relief cuts at rear of driver cutout, type and positioning of damping, using damping or not, ensuring joints are airtight, non rigid baffle mounting, no parallel surfaces, internal bracing / baffles, etc.
Maybe build two enclosures, one quick and one involved and check if you actually hear a difference.
A measurable difference may not be audible so you should be able to make a determination as to whether or not the extra effort is worth it to you.
Think of it like pocket change, it's neither here nor there until you fill a container and then you have enough to do something worthwhile with.
Yep big time, as to DIY's aesthetics or lack thereof lol.
Aah, i forget the different perspectives on DIY, that can be due to the size speakers we build.
I rarely use cone drivers smaller than 10". Flanges are never less than 1/4" thick, which is a lot of wood to take out for a rebate, and usually requires a much thicker baffle than I want to use.
Plus as you know, wavelengths with larger drivers, make rebates an aesthetic issue only.
When I do use small cones, they most often go in unity/syn horns, with the cones facing and screwing into the horn wall.
Glad I don't fool much with little drivers, to tell the truth. I hate using wood screws to mount a driver, even in a situation that totally works, like with the syns where no rebate is called for.
it is that simple
you have been presented with good information throughout this thread
if you have measured to the contrary, then you present it
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When I decided to build my first speaker in the year ~1999, the first thing I bought was a router. Maybe I have felt early that it is not the last speaker I would build... 😉. Was a good one from Bosch - it looks really messed up now but is still working fine.
Beside the relevance of audibility, for me, a speaker is also a piece of furniture that requires some minimum craftmanship to "look nice" in the living room. And recessing drivers is one of the very basic things to achieve that. And its measureable - when I develop speakers I also want to have nice measurements 🙂
But everyone is different - there are enough people who buy a cheap kit (which can be also well-made/developed!), glue some leftover boards they found in the garage together, make some holes with a jigsaw, and are proud like kings that it sound much better than Bose, is selfmade and they "saved money" by doing this. And this is totally great and fine! 🙂
Beside the relevance of audibility, for me, a speaker is also a piece of furniture that requires some minimum craftmanship to "look nice" in the living room. And recessing drivers is one of the very basic things to achieve that. And its measureable - when I develop speakers I also want to have nice measurements 🙂
But everyone is different - there are enough people who buy a cheap kit (which can be also well-made/developed!), glue some leftover boards they found in the garage together, make some holes with a jigsaw, and are proud like kings that it sound much better than Bose, is selfmade and they "saved money" by doing this. And this is totally great and fine! 🙂
I have been surprised at how many guys don't want to own or even use a router. I like to own one that has a 1/2" collet and about 2 hp for most of my work. Mounting one in a table has some advantages too. I have a small one car shop for woodworking and so a tool such as a router is indispensable. You don't need the more expensive plunge router to do this work, just one that has good depth control.
I should add that buying a knock down kit is completely fine with me. Even Audio Express has some good looking kits for sale.
I should add that buying a knock down kit is completely fine with me. Even Audio Express has some good looking kits for sale.
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My 2 car shop is used occasionally for rebuilding auto engines and automatic transmissions. Which requires extreme cleanliness. Any woodworking I do will be done outside in the sun. The trouble with buying Peavey or JBLpackaged speakers is that they will draw money at the pawn shop or flea market any day of the week. My home builds will be too ugly to resell. The naked drivers will be worth more.
The trouble with buying a rebuilt engine or transmission is that 99.999999% of them are scrap metal.
No router. I will cover the ugly woofer with a grill cloth. Naked drivers IMHO is for bars & pubs.
Look at Schonbrunn Palace grounds the night of the summer concert with Wein Phil. Big speakers out front, no naked drivers.
I'm not going to be popular here, I've mounted drivers behind the front baffle on loads of the speakers I've made (the one on the left had grill cloth over the felt when finished) To make matters worse, I've made many speakers without simulations or calculations, using drivers with little specifications, just a crossover chart from a David Weems book. The thing about DIY is you can go your own way.
I am reminded of a racing team developing an F1 car though, in the winter season they realised that the basic car had nothing wrong with it, so they spent the winter making little small improvements by attention to detail, each improvement wasn't really worth much, but together all of the many improvements added up enough that next season the other teams thought that they were cheating.
I am reminded of a racing team developing an F1 car though, in the winter season they realised that the basic car had nothing wrong with it, so they spent the winter making little small improvements by attention to detail, each improvement wasn't really worth much, but together all of the many improvements added up enough that next season the other teams thought that they were cheating.
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So you are a F1 race engineer in your first life? Explains the wheigt saving holes in your cabinet. Very "Racy" looking.
Maybe use only carbon fiber for your next constructions. It has replaced most holes in racing...
Maybe use only carbon fiber for your next constructions. It has replaced most holes in racing...
Further weight reduction is made by using 2 screws for the driver instead of 4. Add chamfering, and it adds up.
I may have drilled a few lightening holes in my time trial push bike, but those hole are to vent the inner box into the outer one. The "whole" idea of those speakers was to have the drivers mounted back to back, in the dumbbell thing, that is loosly mounted in the main enclosure, thereby isolating mechanical vibration. The chamfer in the front was for edge detraction. I've got some ideas for making some speakers from 3 mm ply, so those will be light. The trouble is, I keep making speakers, and keep getting ideas for more, and I'm wondering what I'm supposed to do with them all.
I must have missed it. I see people claiming that it makes a difference, but little actual fact. I know why it is supposed to make a difference, and I'm not questioning whether it does make a difference - the question is really whether its all that big a deal compared to other aspects. Statements that using a router is easy and everyone has one are not helpful. Its not just rebating the driver that increases the complexity - its also getting a good finish around that hole with veneer if that's the intent.