thank you very much Still someone mixes on the Avantone speakers Just one single 5.5" full range cone
Yes, and probably accompanied by quite a bit of IMD at higher SPLs, that is generated by the small fullrange driver.
In a studio, some engineers want to have a basic idea of what the final mix sounds like being played on a P.O.S.
I rather agree with you ; it seems notably better to me to "save the integrity" of the voices in the same speaker, somewhere like if it was a Wide-Band speaker operation.
This is also the credo of the French speaker builder TRIANGLE, among others. But this is not the universal truth, and numerous good exceptions exists, I guess !
Below, my 375L (right) and 475L (left) :
For the 375L, transition frequencies are 400Hz / 4500Hz.
the Midrange is a BEYMA 8M60N.
For the 475L, transition frequencies are 300Hz / 4000Hz / 10000Hz.
The Low-Mid is still a BEYMA 8M60N, and the High-Mid is a SB Acoustics MD60N 2.5" dome.
Crossovers are Serie 1st order, with progressive slope going from 6 to 12dB/Oct.
T
i see But in my mind i think they know this quite well Like the bass and the very highs do not matter They focus the lets say 200 to 5kHz range i guess as the most important to check a recording They could use any commercial speaker around
Hi thanks a lot for the interesting information
To be honest i do not see the need for the 4th way Any decent tweeter can cover from 4kHz up Personally i would take the 375L solution
But i see a 300-400Hz crossing with the woofer and 4000-4500Hz with the tweeter
No dome can cover this range this is sure with the Atc getting closer anyway
Imho the xover points selection is the very 1st decision to take
The drivers selection will follow considering also the wanted undistorted SPL in the range
Last edited:
A few thoughts from my summer speaker build where I selected the BlieSMA 3" dome.
First you need to determine the dispersion that you want from the speaker and then the maximum SPL.
If you want narrow dispersion, that 6" or larger midrange and a tweeter with a waveguide will be a nice match.
If you want wide dispersion, a 3" driver with a 1" dome and no waveguide will give you wide dispersion.
Looking at 3" or 4" drivers, a cone driver with a 1' voice coil will be power limited for SPL vs. a high quality 3" dome that has a 3" voice coil.
I was targeting 108 dB or higher SPL max at one meter for the full range 40 Hz to 20,000 Hz. The BliesMA 3"
had sufficient power handling and Xmax to produce this level down to about 450 Hz. As I was going for very wide
dispersion I crossed it to the 1" dome at around 2,300 Hz.
First you need to determine the dispersion that you want from the speaker and then the maximum SPL.
If you want narrow dispersion, that 6" or larger midrange and a tweeter with a waveguide will be a nice match.
If you want wide dispersion, a 3" driver with a 1" dome and no waveguide will give you wide dispersion.
Looking at 3" or 4" drivers, a cone driver with a 1' voice coil will be power limited for SPL vs. a high quality 3" dome that has a 3" voice coil.
I was targeting 108 dB or higher SPL max at one meter for the full range 40 Hz to 20,000 Hz. The BliesMA 3"
had sufficient power handling and Xmax to produce this level down to about 450 Hz. As I was going for very wide
dispersion I crossed it to the 1" dome at around 2,300 Hz.
A bit surprising that no one has suggested the Scan-Speak 10F. Small enough to nearly match a 3" dome dispersion but good to a much lower frequency to better match a 15". Relatively cheap, and its performance is excellent. Power handling might be the only downside, but the OP doesn't need high volume.
Yes. I felt that it is that range of frequencies where the advantages of the Wide Band speakers are the most obvious, and why they are so highly regarded in terms of "tone and image homogeneity", if I can say so. So having a midrange in a multi-way enclosure to be able to cover widely this range is a plus - at least to my ears.
Consequently, I avoid FC in the 500-1500Hz area, because I never had satisfactory tone results with that choice. 😕
But again, the Klipsch Heresy I has a FC=700Hz, and the JBL 4344 has a FC=1200Hz in their respective crossovers... And both works fine ! 🙂
T
@olsond3 Which Bliesma 3" dome did you choose? I personally prefer the aluminium version, mainly due to price but also ability to play louder with lower distortion than the others. Including the Be version. Only exception is the Textreme version, but its harder to come by and doesn't match the distortion profile of tweeter. I still prefer the T34B over the others as a match to the aluminium alloy mid.
the critical era is for me more 3000-3500Hz. And the big issue with crossovers in that region is phase alignment. It's something i learned only a few years ago from experienced people (offline). Some speakers have a crossover in that region but sound as coherent as a fullrange from a certain distance that it does not matter anymore. That is because the phase on the crossover region is aligned over a longer frequency band with them. You see that with the bigger more expensive JBL's that have a passive crossovere like the JBL 4367 (at 800Hz), with most modern Kef speakers of today and so on.
It's probally also the reason why some people like a compression driver very low. Even if it's a dual concentric (in one horn) the phase alignment is very important to avoid phase cancelation and so distortion in the signal. I want to try that also but those compression drivers that can do that are very expensive, and so are the horns. I recently heared a B&C DCX464 in the B&C 464 Horn crossed that low with a custom phase aligned passive 4th order filter at 4kHz between the tweeter and the mid (going to a 15" woofer at 300Hz with dsp) and that sounded as good as some of my favorite fullrange drivers, but then with a more controlled dispertion and higher volume. But that coax compression driver and horn cost per side about 1200€ down here. and the filter (that is fairly simple actually) at another 250€ in parts.... MEH's do the same when done right (but are very complex to design and build it seems).
It's probally also the reason why some people like a compression driver very low. Even if it's a dual concentric (in one horn) the phase alignment is very important to avoid phase cancelation and so distortion in the signal. I want to try that also but those compression drivers that can do that are very expensive, and so are the horns. I recently heared a B&C DCX464 in the B&C 464 Horn crossed that low with a custom phase aligned passive 4th order filter at 4kHz between the tweeter and the mid (going to a 15" woofer at 300Hz with dsp) and that sounded as good as some of my favorite fullrange drivers, but then with a more controlled dispertion and higher volume. But that coax compression driver and horn cost per side about 1200€ down here. and the filter (that is fairly simple actually) at another 250€ in parts.... MEH's do the same when done right (but are very complex to design and build it seems).
I first bought the soft dome and then realized I had been looking at the response curve for the aluminum dome, BlieSMa M74A-6. The soft dome has a rising response and the off axis wasn't quite as good. So I also bought the aluminum dome. As I was building a bipolar / omni speaker I needed four domes anyway. I just put the soft domes on the back of the cabinet.
Solen.ca in Canada looks to have the best price right now, likely due to the USA / CA exchange rate. https://solen.ca/en/products/bliesma-m74a-6-74mm-aluminum-magnesium-dome-midrange-3inch
Here are a couple of pics of the build. Using low crossover frequencies of 450 Hz and 2,300 Hz the pattern is practically omni-directional up to 10 kHz, which was the goal.
Each cabinet has drivers on both sides. The top segment is red on the front and grey on the back.
that TAD TL-1601b driver (i suppose) and those dome drivers are not really compatible i think, the sensivity of that TAD is way higher (+10dB to the dome mid) so passive crsossovers are not an option. It's dispertion is also to wide to fit the domes. Otherwise you could cross it at 700, most do it actually and it's a part of the quality why this driver is so rated, that it does those frequencies right.
But everybody use a compression driver in horn with it, and often a high sensitive mid cone (at least the same sensivity of the woofer) or compression driver also. With domes you will have a mismatch in sensivity and dispertion.
Better use a smaller subwoofer (10-12") and a 5 to 8" midbass arround 85-90dB sensitive if you want a 4 way with those domes.
But everybody use a compression driver in horn with it, and often a high sensitive mid cone (at least the same sensivity of the woofer) or compression driver also. With domes you will have a mismatch in sensivity and dispertion.
Better use a smaller subwoofer (10-12") and a 5 to 8" midbass arround 85-90dB sensitive if you want a 4 way with those domes.
juanitox
I bought, tested and returned a Scanspeak 12MU. Xmax was 3 mm and the distortion was OK but not 0.1% good. I think you would be very pleased with the seas-excel-w18e-001-e0018. It has very low distortion, a larger 5 mm Xmax and very smooth response that should go high enough to work with the 2" dome. Sealed box of 0.35 cubic feet for an F3 of 70Hz. 50% filling
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...excel-w18e-001-e0018-7-magnesium-cone-woofer/