Where? Speakers do put out a 3D soundfield, this isn't amplifiers. Sweep tones? Does anyone use those any more?
Do you mean localization?
I've never said the PC speakers had good soundstage all the time - they're the "least" of the setups I've played with in that respect - like all systems they have pluses and minuses. Only if I pull out all the stops, over a period of time, do I get something of a reasonable performance in that respect. At the moment they're just a convenient sound source, that does enough things well for use in the listening exercises on other threads.
They're a halfway house between a background music box and a 'proper' system, simple as that ..
Some of the Nimbus recordings, because of their Ambisonics recording techniques, create enormous 'soundstage' arenas on conventional equipment - not at all realistic in terms of what the musicians would have sounded like live, but a good way to test the resolving ability of equipment. A particular album I have can sound very flat, and just not work - this happened on a friend's system - but a very ambitious combination at the last hifi show impressed me by unravelling the sound cues correctly ...
That increases LF noise then ISTM. So LF is part of the answer, however its not 'LF response' rather 'perceived LF noise floor'. Increasing LF noise diminishes soundstage depth, IME.
Depends on what you call LF then - for me, the harshness, distortion added by allowing, say, interference to degrade the sound impacts mainly the high frequency elements, the harmonics. I'm just thinking here of a Scandanavian chamber music recording, borrowed some time ago - very recently done, in some enormous cathedral setting - the echos intermodulated with the string tone when the system was not in top tune, subjectively severely damaging the sound of the violins, and also losing the sense of the huge acoustic.
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Here, by 'LF' I was waving my hand in the direction of anything below the mid, which for me begins somewhere in the region of 400Hz.
I reckon the damage to the lower freqs will be perceived, inter alia as a curtailment of the acoustic space (or 'soundstage').
I reckon the damage to the lower freqs will be perceived, inter alia as a curtailment of the acoustic space (or 'soundstage').
Officially the handoff from upper bass to lower midrange is 160Hz. At 400 Hz you are well into the heart of the midrange.
dave
I personally think that imaging is just as subjective (and probably more vague) a term as Soundstage 🙂
If I were to say that these speakers had good imaging... I think I would get the same multiple different interpretations as to what that actually means as what I would get if I say that these speakers present a good soundstage.
In fact, I would suggest it is more likely that as a concept people would inherently be more likely to know what I meant from the latter rather than the former 🙂
Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
Tony.
Let's go to the "bible" for a moment, J. Gordon Holt's Glossary:
soundstaging, soundstage presentation The accuracy with which a reproducing system conveys audible information about the size, shape, and acoustical characteristics of the original recording space and the placement of the performers within it.
imaging The measure of a system's ability to float stable and specific phantom images, reproducing the original sizes and locations of the instruments across the soundstage. See "stereo imaging."
These don't "sound" too bad to me, 😀 ...
soundstaging, soundstage presentation The accuracy with which a reproducing system conveys audible information about the size, shape, and acoustical characteristics of the original recording space and the placement of the performers within it.
imaging The measure of a system's ability to float stable and specific phantom images, reproducing the original sizes and locations of the instruments across the soundstage. See "stereo imaging."
These don't "sound" too bad to me, 😀 ...
Sorry but what amp you use as long as it has adequate frequency response, low distortion and adequate channel separation will reproduce what is on the recording to satisfy your meaning of soundstage. Of course having two speakers in stereo helps LOT also 😛
I just tried the test in post #102 using an old Carver receiver and Infinity bookshelf speakers from the 90's No problem what so ever.
"Subjective" is not the same thing as "ambiguous." Likewise, "general" is not the same thing as "ambiguous." The issue isn't a lack of specificity, it's the lack of common agreement on what the word means. Hence, useless term, perfect for marketing.
OK..
I have decided I hate the words soundstage and imaging..
Its obvious to anyone that its part of the Threeeeee....Deeeeee...souuuuund field...
Because its been built up to much..
So you can go ahead and discuss it...but I won't... well until I think its OK to take part..or until its decided that HIFI actually does exist and is not a figment of an overactive imagination..😡...😀
Regards
M. Gregg
I have decided I hate the words soundstage and imaging..
Its obvious to anyone that its part of the Threeeeee....Deeeeee...souuuuund field...
Because its been built up to much..
So you can go ahead and discuss it...but I won't... well until I think its OK to take part..or until its decided that HIFI actually does exist and is not a figment of an overactive imagination..😡...😀
Regards
M. Gregg
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I asked for a definition of soundstaging. I got three or four mutually contradictory answers. So, I'll ask people to define "imaging." Let's see if that's any more consistent. 😀
Well I allways thought that Imaging refers to the ability of speakers to fool the brain into thinking that sounds were coming from particular places away from the speakers themselves. ie discrete locations not just a wall of sound or things stuck to one speaker or the other. I usually regard imaging and soundstage to be synonymous.
Tony.
Tony.
For me, imaging is about the ability to localize instruments and voices, soundstaging is about the space those are in. So the former is a 'foreground' term, the latter 'background'.
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