I didn´t want to put that driver down, but it is "vintage reference" expensive driver, that has been outdone many times for bass work and for SPL output.
18DS115 for less money will put it to shame.
18DS115 for less money will put it to shame.
Personally I am not a fan of passive radiators.
The working principle behind passive radiators is the same mechanism that makes ported cabs work except that the weight of a passive radiator is much higher than that of the air column in a port. Therefore any perceived problems with ported cabs will be even greater with PRs.
The PRs I have heard (admittedly not many) had initially impressive but ultimately inaccurate, bloated bass.
To myself I can only justify them for tiny speakers where a port would be relatively very large compared to the box volume.
Ive heard mentioned that passive radiators have very high distortion compared to bass reflex and sealed. This surprises med as I have seen such speakers highly praised the latter years and no mentioning of high distortion. I know that subjektive reviews can be totally BS and I dont specifically recall measurements. Is it a fact that pasive radiators ads distortion?
Cheers!
Cheers!
A bad apple can spoil the brew. If I rewind back in time I didn't like ported subs. After having a big brand name bloated slob by one of the main competitors. I thought I came to a revelation as I was hearing a sealed subwoofer next to it. At the time I thought ported subs just weren't for me.
Later a ported sub that's designed well straitened that all out for me by sounding great. It was speedy low and articulate, musical, ported.
This one is not much over half of a foot. If I include the size of the factory plate and big A/B transformer cube. Not much, but there is some difference. I was still hesitant to alter it even a little one way or the other keeping it bone stock. Since everyone hypes these to no end.
Its speedy articulate, low and very punchy. It goes very low. From habit I'm expecting it to pop like the sound of having too much eq. Which isn't even needed after I put that in the corner, approx. 1 foot from each of the two corner walls.
I am able to differentiate notes, its checking main boxes for me. It also sounds listenable at low volumes. It still blends in well with whatever medium is playing at the time.
I have heard many types of subs by now I know what I like and want subs to do.
There are so many seemingly small variables that can make big difference. I think of it like a brew with a pinch here and pinch there. They must compliment one another.
One of the things I try to stay away from. Is subs that are advertised claims they can do both, music and LFE. They offer things like port plugs. I could never get those to sound right. Instead I try to stick with subs that are designed for either purpose. I've either been lucky or there is some truth to it.
That was the case with the sub I mentioned in opening, the "bloated pig". It was great accompanying movies. With music it was not bad, pretty good. I like my bass a whole lot but I just turn that off when playing music.
I had somewhat similar experiences with PR designs, good and bad. They can work well when all the other components do there share blending in.
Later a ported sub that's designed well straitened that all out for me by sounding great. It was speedy low and articulate, musical, ported.
This one is not much over half of a foot. If I include the size of the factory plate and big A/B transformer cube. Not much, but there is some difference. I was still hesitant to alter it even a little one way or the other keeping it bone stock. Since everyone hypes these to no end.
Its speedy articulate, low and very punchy. It goes very low. From habit I'm expecting it to pop like the sound of having too much eq. Which isn't even needed after I put that in the corner, approx. 1 foot from each of the two corner walls.
I am able to differentiate notes, its checking main boxes for me. It also sounds listenable at low volumes. It still blends in well with whatever medium is playing at the time.
I have heard many types of subs by now I know what I like and want subs to do.
There are so many seemingly small variables that can make big difference. I think of it like a brew with a pinch here and pinch there. They must compliment one another.
One of the things I try to stay away from. Is subs that are advertised claims they can do both, music and LFE. They offer things like port plugs. I could never get those to sound right. Instead I try to stick with subs that are designed for either purpose. I've either been lucky or there is some truth to it.
That was the case with the sub I mentioned in opening, the "bloated pig". It was great accompanying movies. With music it was not bad, pretty good. I like my bass a whole lot but I just turn that off when playing music.
I had somewhat similar experiences with PR designs, good and bad. They can work well when all the other components do there share blending in.
I'm hesitant to pick out a PR and go with a simple box for the second one https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-RSS210HO-4-8-Reference-Series-HO-Subwoofer-4-Ohm-295-458.
I'll somewhat get a chance to compare the two, at least somewhat.
The current sub has very minumal stuffing, almost nothing. Thats another thing that seemed to go around norms. I left it as is.
If I change it, I would loosely place not pack some more slices to fill up the entire cavity. At this time I feel nothing more is needed other than some kind of footing, there is none whatsoever, the metal rails on hardwood floor thats it. I'll probably try some chunky sticky rubber ones. And a 10 lb sack of sand. When I kneel and hold my palms on the top with some weight it certainly tightens it up more. Such minor details can still scratch out another notch, or at least half.
I'll somewhat get a chance to compare the two, at least somewhat.
The current sub has very minumal stuffing, almost nothing. Thats another thing that seemed to go around norms. I left it as is.
If I change it, I would loosely place not pack some more slices to fill up the entire cavity. At this time I feel nothing more is needed other than some kind of footing, there is none whatsoever, the metal rails on hardwood floor thats it. I'll probably try some chunky sticky rubber ones. And a 10 lb sack of sand. When I kneel and hold my palms on the top with some weight it certainly tightens it up more. Such minor details can still scratch out another notch, or at least half.
@wasabii Your life with your little well-designed sub was totally different from my life with the largest speaker from a company that my father insisted I got instead of the smaller 12inch model. -He was tired of driving me all the times I had gradually upgraded.
Those 15 inch sounded terible in my 2,5x4meter room. Probably could have been tamed perfectly with a 12band equalizer. I didnt have one and adjusting eq is HARD for a newbie.
I dont remember your goal but I think I read that multi-sub setups can achieve very good sonic result event when only the main sub is of good quality and sufficient spl.
Cheers!
Those 15 inch sounded terible in my 2,5x4meter room. Probably could have been tamed perfectly with a 12band equalizer. I didnt have one and adjusting eq is HARD for a newbie.
I dont remember your goal but I think I read that multi-sub setups can achieve very good sonic result event when only the main sub is of good quality and sufficient spl.
Cheers!
My gut feel is that the room resonance of a small room might be high enough to interact with the bottom end of a large subwoofer, which will need equalization to tame.
On a slightly different note, I had some annoying experiences with an over powered subwoofer - everything rattled. The glass sliding doors of the showcase rattled - fixed that. Then I heard the little decorations / knickknacks rattling on the glass shelves - had to stick bits of foam rubber sheeting under each one. Even the spoons in the cups and saucers rattled - I guess by this time my ears were hyper sensitive to rattling - I was hearing it everywhere.
On a slightly different note, I had some annoying experiences with an over powered subwoofer - everything rattled. The glass sliding doors of the showcase rattled - fixed that. Then I heard the little decorations / knickknacks rattling on the glass shelves - had to stick bits of foam rubber sheeting under each one. Even the spoons in the cups and saucers rattled - I guess by this time my ears were hyper sensitive to rattling - I was hearing it everywhere.
That happens in both small and large rooms. The difference is a frequency or frequencies on which tbis happen.
Lately I prototyed a BT box with small Dayton TCP115 4", drivers, and they still are able to excite the room modes.
The rattling though. Bhaha. Good one. That is the first level. Next one is looking nervously around and above, in that fear-crawl position, anticipating what might crack and fall on your head. I can see how cthat can be unwanted feature, but one always can decide to not use that feature. Putting surplus capabilities on the negative list doesn't make much sense. Taming the beast is better of the life problems, having on ones hands. That's considered "lucky".
Lately I prototyed a BT box with small Dayton TCP115 4", drivers, and they still are able to excite the room modes.
The rattling though. Bhaha. Good one. That is the first level. Next one is looking nervously around and above, in that fear-crawl position, anticipating what might crack and fall on your head. I can see how cthat can be unwanted feature, but one always can decide to not use that feature. Putting surplus capabilities on the negative list doesn't make much sense. Taming the beast is better of the life problems, having on ones hands. That's considered "lucky".
I had to chase and get rid of a few rattles lol, they arent always that easy to find.
It goes so low you can hardly hear "bass" yet it shakes the h*ll of of things. Its only an 8 but its loading the room I had seriously sealed off in the past.
Granted this room is one of the easiest to make sound good. There is only one null in an opposing corner I never use. It sounds OK but its not a gut punch.
I might get where I am going with two subs. But I probably wouldn't listen to reason or become bored then give in and upsize.
There are still plusses like flowing less gain to subs / less distortion. Its fun so far I guess thats the main thing. I like when the system sounds good enough to sucker you in to listening later, and later until you sleep in late for work. Sometimes just need to slow down and listen. I groove the classified even when I probably don't need anything lol.
Agreed, it is just a 'frame of reference' commonly used and considering how long you've been here, surprised you didn't see it as such, not to mention my perennial preferences/recommendations for EBS, (ML) TLs.
FYI/FWIW: Keele's Extended Bass Shelf [EBS] alignment [Thiele #9.5]: Vb = 2.6*Vas, Fb = 0.52*Fs, 0.625 Qts'
Indeed, which the aforementioned ~48 Hz max flat alignment boldly proclaims. 🙁 For traditional prosound's nominally flat to 80 Hz, 40 Hz/F -24 dB lower limit that's still in occasional use, it's 'da bomb'! 😱
I may of said that I do agree with it. I'd go out on a limb and say plays a substantial roll in the end result. Not just a little.
I'm really happy for you. I've had subs from 18 or 20 odd companies and variety of sizes and models. Plus diy subs. Its not a new concept buddy. Home subs and about the same in mobile. Quit moping.
Just stick around when my project nears completion. I'll by a mic and metre just for you. In the meantime no stooping or trying to **** further than other people how's that sound?
You should’ve stuck with this.. its Where the ‘secrets’ are at.
Forced to get something from very little, you’re all the way back to where reality began. Shoving 18” drivers into anything is going to be very overwhelming no matter what. Scaling back to the root of it all and the struggle shows answers that otherwise are blurred/poluted with more ‘variables’ or excess.
Its easy to scale ‘up’ but the truth starts at origin. ? Weird how microcosm macrocosm that is.. Or the other way around it doesn’t matter
Treat the subwoofer box as if it is a telescope bouncing back-and-forth three times with a mirror on each end with some sort of lens is not required to have superposition and sound wave. you have parallel perfect and not…. (No imperfect rectangles) with an opening for the rest that doesn’t LP filter to the next fold.
Thiis perfectly aligned if you want to add ‘one’ on the opposite side of the driver to send it to the ‘three’ as well.
3:1—exit together . All that’s left is the driver entry position to make that a perfect sequence all broken down into four parts of a circle and then three more or so evenly(3 becomes 12 as seen in simmed response shape too)
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@Booger weldz I dont have the theoretical base to comprehend your post, but it was the most linguisticly beautyfull one that Ive read in diyaudio❤️
Cheers!
Cheers!
Its difficult to share much without plugging some company. Maybe its for better. The other other 8 I've been growing eager to sample is the minivee. With and without facory plate. I'd probably use it without to sysytem integrate it with the minidsp and all..
This makes 3 I missed now, this week 1 with plate. The others were MiniVee passive 8's x two and he only wasnted two bills for the pair.
I might be going crazy 8s. But seriously I love them. I always got them to perform really well. It immerses me in the thick of sound. Combined with room. And premium high and mid gear set up. I dont even scrutinize them, just simply listen and enjoy. I'm chasing bass for a while. The room welcomes the 8s also, and adds just the right slope and compliments them.
The t3 is never leaving. Since the plate died it should last forever with the more durable PA amp/xover. They can pry it prom my dead hands.
Seriously you should try those older re*'s. Its one of the most articulate subs I've heard. It pulls everything off very well, with PR and all.
Just don't expect a lot even with modestly playing with movies. Its NOT bad, but I have bottomed it out a couple times. Thats not its main role here, so I can live with that.
I'm just still waiting on my others. I plan to model them after that box, one for starters. If I can come close to replicating what it does x 4. oh yea. I might be able to pull off one of those, what are they called, forever systems? lol. I ain't looking for that. I wont lie to myself. There too much gear out there. Its not a case of "better". Its a case of having fun trying what I can manage.
Besides subs, there is one wyred4sound box I have to get, a must go. It too should spend a permanent home here.
Until them. I should get busy making sawdust fly. I'd like to have the beast ready by the time subs arrive.
I guess the other plus about 8" sealed boxes, I double up every wall thickness not be smacking my legs on a hug box. It will be a bit tricky setting up one per corned and making the lines invisible. The crawl space resides directly under me so not a problem drilling the floor where it doesn't show up top. To run two sets to the opposite side.
I weighted the sucker down until I get spikes that fit. 30 lbs seems to be the sweet spot lol.
This makes 3 I missed now, this week 1 with plate. The others were MiniVee passive 8's x two and he only wasnted two bills for the pair.
I might be going crazy 8s. But seriously I love them. I always got them to perform really well. It immerses me in the thick of sound. Combined with room. And premium high and mid gear set up. I dont even scrutinize them, just simply listen and enjoy. I'm chasing bass for a while. The room welcomes the 8s also, and adds just the right slope and compliments them.
The t3 is never leaving. Since the plate died it should last forever with the more durable PA amp/xover. They can pry it prom my dead hands.
Seriously you should try those older re*'s. Its one of the most articulate subs I've heard. It pulls everything off very well, with PR and all.
Just don't expect a lot even with modestly playing with movies. Its NOT bad, but I have bottomed it out a couple times. Thats not its main role here, so I can live with that.
I'm just still waiting on my others. I plan to model them after that box, one for starters. If I can come close to replicating what it does x 4. oh yea. I might be able to pull off one of those, what are they called, forever systems? lol. I ain't looking for that. I wont lie to myself. There too much gear out there. Its not a case of "better". Its a case of having fun trying what I can manage.
Besides subs, there is one wyred4sound box I have to get, a must go. It too should spend a permanent home here.
Until them. I should get busy making sawdust fly. I'd like to have the beast ready by the time subs arrive.
I guess the other plus about 8" sealed boxes, I double up every wall thickness not be smacking my legs on a hug box. It will be a bit tricky setting up one per corned and making the lines invisible. The crawl space resides directly under me so not a problem drilling the floor where it doesn't show up top. To run two sets to the opposite side.
I weighted the sucker down until I get spikes that fit. 30 lbs seems to be the sweet spot lol.
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I dont have the ‘theoretical base’ either😂 doesnt mean you dont discover ‘new’ or revive ways to do this stuff or things thst might improve by standing on these guys shoulders!🙏🏻 Never give up, horn response is the crystal ball. Use it with numbers that are already working in physics not just sliders at random trying to find something that ‘looks’ good. Its already in there if it ‘is’ good.
isn't that just because usually the surface of passive radiators is (much) higher than ports?