a1rocketpilot said:
Greets!
A bipole with the rear driver rolled off as required to make it ~flat in-room will always be superior to the single driver version since the mids/HF won't be modulated as much.
Since I haven't auditioned any of my Fostex or Jordan designs and have only auditioned the Jordan in Jim Griffin's small BRs with BSC and none of the current Fostex drivers except Bob Brine's FE167E? ML-TL, my general experience with 'FR' drivers is that the Jordan is the clear winner of the bunch, all things considered.
That said, until you step up to the better Lowthers, based on experience and the physics of driver design, I don't consider any 'FR' drivers/designs truly 'HIFI', just some are incredible bang/buck in their respective price ranges.
You want economical HIFI speakers, stick to your headphones.
Well, that ought to ruffle a few 'feathers', so as always YMMV. 😉
GM
Depends what you want I suppose. Assuming that you have heavily mid-range dominated music, then single drivers win out every time for me. Trad folk etc. for example. Martin Carthy or June Tabour sound much better through my FR drivers than anything else I've ever heard.
Thundering out Led Zep or Peter Gabriel on the other hand I reckon is better left to the multi-ways. Some single drivers can do it, but it's not exactly what they're best at. I heard the Wharfdale Airedale Heritage this afternoon -absolutely stunning. So it should be for the price of course. It give the big Tannoys a run for their money though.
Cheers
Scott
Thundering out Led Zep or Peter Gabriel on the other hand I reckon is better left to the multi-ways. Some single drivers can do it, but it's not exactly what they're best at. I heard the Wharfdale Airedale Heritage this afternoon -absolutely stunning. So it should be for the price of course. It give the big Tannoys a run for their money though.
Cheers
Scott
GM said:
Yea, Greg, we have been around this flag pole before. I know what you think is acceptable sound and why. But most of us have self imposed constrains that limit what can be done. I think I do well within those constrains and I am sure that others are happy within their constraints. Some of us can't live with 10 ft^3 speaker and even 40 Hz horns are just an academic exercise.
BTW, what DID you think of my Lowther MLTL's?
Bob
Scottmoose said:
Greets!
That's only because you haven't experienced them through my frame of reference, this 50-10 kHz 40 ft^2 mouth horn driven with dual 1" exit field coil compression drivers that I had the (mis)fortune to audition in my formative years of learning speaker design: http://www.audioanthology.com/building.htm
Probably just as well though since it can leave one with a sense of despair when it's beyond one's reach, like hitching a short ride in a mega buck supercar knowing you will probably never be able to afford one, at least in tip-top mechanical condition.
Sometimes ignorance is bliss, though in my case it did push me in the direction of smaller scale HE systems using this driver's Altec AlNiCo replacement and why I only consider the highest efficiency/lowest Qt/widest BW 'FR' drivers as a viable substitute.
Once I moved away from these choices for whatever reason (usually cost), it boiled down to personal listening preferences and best bang/buck for the intended app, so the only way I had a clue which to choose was to either audition as many as I could or ask others their opinions and hope for the best since I didn't have on-line forums or mailing lists to comb through and I learned early on that much of the info in the mags readily available to me weren't worth the time to read, much less pay for.
GM
Greets!
Indeed we have. 😉 Methinks you read too much into my response though, I didn't mention or imply horns or large cabs. 😉 Yeah, even I decided going below 70 Hz with horns was just too damn big for what little overall performance gain I could expect, though there's drivers today that allows for a somewhat smaller bulk.
I'm well aware of yours and others constraints, but 'a1rocketpilot' said he wanted a high end speaker system and IMO his current choices don't meet the minimum standard regardless of their bang/buck performance ratios.
Your Lowthers are fine within its designed in limits, what I consider an entry level high end speaker due to its critical vocal range performance, and better than some $$ multi-way systems I've auditioned that purport to be high end, though I had in mind the Lowther Basszilla at the time since it covers more of the audible BW and limits the Lowther to its optimum BW.
GM
Indeed we have. 😉 Methinks you read too much into my response though, I didn't mention or imply horns or large cabs. 😉 Yeah, even I decided going below 70 Hz with horns was just too damn big for what little overall performance gain I could expect, though there's drivers today that allows for a somewhat smaller bulk.
I'm well aware of yours and others constraints, but 'a1rocketpilot' said he wanted a high end speaker system and IMO his current choices don't meet the minimum standard regardless of their bang/buck performance ratios.
Your Lowthers are fine within its designed in limits, what I consider an entry level high end speaker due to its critical vocal range performance, and better than some $$ multi-way systems I've auditioned that purport to be high end, though I had in mind the Lowther Basszilla at the time since it covers more of the audible BW and limits the Lowther to its optimum BW.
GM
I would start a separate thread on this and get some
opinions. Personally, I have only seen the Jordans
written about.
What the suggested project would do is provide some
experience with limited expense and construction
technique.
In other words, if it doesn't work out or sound right
you can still pursue the bipole for the cost of the wood
and a couple more Fostex and have the experience of
the MLTL as well.
I look at it this way: a single driver experiment should begin
with the single driver. You may be more pleased with the
result than expected.
opinions. Personally, I have only seen the Jordans
written about.
What the suggested project would do is provide some
experience with limited expense and construction
technique.
In other words, if it doesn't work out or sound right
you can still pursue the bipole for the cost of the wood
and a couple more Fostex and have the experience of
the MLTL as well.
I look at it this way: a single driver experiment should begin
with the single driver. You may be more pleased with the
result than expected.
Hi all!
I have now built a pair of Bi-Poles in 27mm birch.
I have yet to connect the drivers, time ran out on me this weekend.
A quick question: If I use a 46mm diameter port instead of 50mm.. How long should it be?
I reallized it in mid assembly, and guessed at 46mm long, but what length should it be and what tuning do I have now?
I just hope they sound half as good as they look 🙂
I have now built a pair of Bi-Poles in 27mm birch.
I have yet to connect the drivers, time ran out on me this weekend.
A quick question: If I use a 46mm diameter port instead of 50mm.. How long should it be?
I reallized it in mid assembly, and guessed at 46mm long, but what length should it be and what tuning do I have now?
I just hope they sound half as good as they look 🙂
Hi again, I think I may have caused some confusion in my earlier posts. When I said hi-fi, I don't really mean something that can compete against the $$ equipment out there. This will just basically start out as an experiment to see if I like the sound of high quality speakers and am willing in the future to invest more money into them. As I said, I am currently more into headphones since I feel that they are much more detailed and accurate than any speaker I've heard (note: I haven't heard any dedicated audio speakers, just things like home theater systems and what not). I just wanted to try out a high quality set of speakers to see what they sound like and to consider the possibility of getting or building better ones in the future. I have actually just ruled out the Jordan's since they are too pricey for me at the moment, so I am either going to go with the Fostex reference bipole TL or a Zigmahornet. Once again, sorry about all of the confusion!
Now I have wired them up and done some initial testing.. And my imression is: WOW!.. 🙂
I have only heard some "low-end hifi" like infinity and likes before, and I must say that this is waaay better! And the drivers is not broken in yet..
Some pictures, pretty lousy lighting but anyway:
I have only heard some "low-end hifi" like infinity and likes before, and I must say that this is waaay better! And the drivers is not broken in yet..
Some pictures, pretty lousy lighting but anyway:
Very nice work:
I am glad to see someone else use real wood.
Good for you. They will take a while to break in. You may need a sub or woofer to help with the very bottom end.
Myself I really like this driver. In shoot outs in my system it is the one we keep coming back to. Bipole is the way to go, at least in my room.
I have been listen to mine with a 3/4Watt tube amp and they are stellar. Not for big rock but for most other stuff I smile a lot.
Let them break in and then play with the stuffing till you tune it just right then smile a lot.
It is good to be a proud parent
Good for you.
I am glad to see someone else use real wood.
Good for you. They will take a while to break in. You may need a sub or woofer to help with the very bottom end.
Myself I really like this driver. In shoot outs in my system it is the one we keep coming back to. Bipole is the way to go, at least in my room.
I have been listen to mine with a 3/4Watt tube amp and they are stellar. Not for big rock but for most other stuff I smile a lot.
Let them break in and then play with the stuffing till you tune it just right then smile a lot.
It is good to be a proud parent
Good for you.
SCD said:
Thank you. My GFs first comment when she saw them was: now you have to build a new tv and stereo bench.. So lessond learned: dont make it to fancy.. 😉
I find they have supprisingly good bottom.. I think my neighbours are quite happy without a sub accually 😉
I cant wait for them to break in, I cant really imagen what they will sound like then.
Thanks a bunch for this tread and all info!
a1rocketpilot said:
Greets!
Skip the Zigmahornet, there's much better straight pipe designs available if that's the way you want to go.
GM
Xor... pretty darn neat!
Good use of the SI amp and Fostex speakers... i love this combo.
I have used a similar setup.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/systems.asp
Peace,
Godzilla
Good use of the SI amp and Fostex speakers... i love this combo.
I have used a similar setup.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/systems.asp
Peace,
Godzilla
Those look very nice Xor. I'm with Scott, it's nice to see wood being used.
It looks suspiciously like maple. What wood did you use and what's the finish? Sorry if you have mentioned this earlier in the thread.
It looks suspiciously like maple. What wood did you use and what's the finish? Sorry if you have mentioned this earlier in the thread.
All right, I guess it is the reference bipole for me then! Quick question though, would placing the drivers on the broad sides affect the sonics in any positive or negative ways?
GM said:
Hello Greg
which ones ? links?? I built a pair of zigmahornets and they are OK (actually quite good thru the mid range) but they do not do LF by any stretch of the imagination. they are fairly new and may mellow some more (still a bit 'shouty' after maybe 25 hours) or I may have to do more to prevent reflection thru the cone they currently only have about 8" piece of carpet behind drivers.
also I am interested in a BIB with the fe103, would you give me some dimensions if it is not too much trouble. I have seen several different ones but they seem to be more for the 108 or ff125.
also would either of these be significantly better than the 103 in BIB?
thanks
Leonard
I have to join in with Leonard.
Greg, if you have some links or threads or a pdf design to go along with that comment, it would be much appreciated.
Also, I wonder about the Fostex FE 126E drivers? Can they be substituted for the other Fostex drivers in this thread, as long as they are the same size drivers? Yes, I know that is a newb question, but I KNOW NOTHING about all this.
Lyndon
Good Lord, Greg. I am glad you have a house big enough for those horns. Those photos reminded me of the Imperial Horns, after the 1956 Jensen over at DecWare.
Greg, if you have some links or threads or a pdf design to go along with that comment, it would be much appreciated.
Also, I wonder about the Fostex FE 126E drivers? Can they be substituted for the other Fostex drivers in this thread, as long as they are the same size drivers? Yes, I know that is a newb question, but I KNOW NOTHING about all this.
Lyndon
Good Lord, Greg. I am glad you have a house big enough for those horns. Those photos reminded me of the Imperial Horns, after the 1956 Jensen over at DecWare.
Cal Weldon said:
Its solid birch (I think its called birch in english, the black & white colored tree).
One thing that suppriesed me is how well the connector rod between the drivers work.. The front and back baffel is rock solid.. No detectable movement at all.. In the sides you can feel the vibrations from the music.