Great, I appreciate that...standing by.
My fav vid of late is still "Push the tempo". The thought of that trio of crackers trying to make a buck off of chaos still cracks me up. And the only one who could roll with it was the guy with the major boombox...shows to go ya...*L*
TGIF, although it's another working weekend. Will be in Knoxville TN next week, another 'residential' install.
My fav vid of late is still "Push the tempo". The thought of that trio of crackers trying to make a buck off of chaos still cracks me up. And the only one who could roll with it was the guy with the major boombox...shows to go ya...*L*
TGIF, although it's another working weekend. Will be in Knoxville TN next week, another 'residential' install.
Hi Guys,
Been very, very busy. Had to go back and read a few pages. LOL.
Anyway, Use a compliant foam surround. The surround not only centers the cone it also acts to allow the cone to handle pistonic motion and to absorb the wave when it reaches the end of the cone. If the wave is not absorbed, it will reflect back up the cone 180 degrees out of phase and you will have mud.
Do not worry about cone weight too much. Worry about VC weight and magnet strength. do not go too thin and do not go too hick. Think Goldie-locks zone.
Remember the wave traveling through this cone can reach Mach 6.
Later,
Dale
Been very, very busy. Had to go back and read a few pages. LOL.
Anyway, Use a compliant foam surround. The surround not only centers the cone it also acts to allow the cone to handle pistonic motion and to absorb the wave when it reaches the end of the cone. If the wave is not absorbed, it will reflect back up the cone 180 degrees out of phase and you will have mud.
Do not worry about cone weight too much. Worry about VC weight and magnet strength. do not go too thin and do not go too hick. Think Goldie-locks zone.
Remember the wave traveling through this cone can reach Mach 6.
Later,
Dale
I can identify with the busy...but it beats the alternative...😉
That 'Goldie-locks zone' is a hard target, for sure. The 2 mil EVA foam I've been using seems to work for the size cone I'm running on my current group of 4 (referred to as the V.3's; Infinity drivers, 1" vc, 7" h. x 4 1/2" dia. base). There's a nominal 1/4" surround width about the cone, and I've found that it can 'support' the weight of the cone (5 mil lithographic aluminum, ergo the color. I like the color, myself. Black is so 20th century...*G*). As long as the surround is not in compression by the height of the supports 'twixt basket and the cone base structure; too much damps the cone's response...
I think I've found the driver for the next iteration I'm planning. 6 1/2" dia., Kapton vc, high temp winding, vented, 30 oz. magnet, 150 w. RMS, 400 max. Inexpensive. Just the sort of thing suitable for carving up the way that I do. *G* And it fits the doctor's Rx...😉
Too much compliance isn't fun, either. I tried dental dam sheets on an earlier version...it 'boomed' like a marching band's bass drum at any volume above a whisper. Perhaps suitable for a tweeter variant, but bigger...ah, no. *L*
That 'Goldie-locks zone' is a hard target, for sure. The 2 mil EVA foam I've been using seems to work for the size cone I'm running on my current group of 4 (referred to as the V.3's; Infinity drivers, 1" vc, 7" h. x 4 1/2" dia. base). There's a nominal 1/4" surround width about the cone, and I've found that it can 'support' the weight of the cone (5 mil lithographic aluminum, ergo the color. I like the color, myself. Black is so 20th century...*G*). As long as the surround is not in compression by the height of the supports 'twixt basket and the cone base structure; too much damps the cone's response...
I think I've found the driver for the next iteration I'm planning. 6 1/2" dia., Kapton vc, high temp winding, vented, 30 oz. magnet, 150 w. RMS, 400 max. Inexpensive. Just the sort of thing suitable for carving up the way that I do. *G* And it fits the doctor's Rx...😉
Too much compliance isn't fun, either. I tried dental dam sheets on an earlier version...it 'boomed' like a marching band's bass drum at any volume above a whisper. Perhaps suitable for a tweeter variant, but bigger...ah, no. *L*
Staying with aluminum for the next too, but lighter. Titanium is tempting, but just not in the budget for now...
But the nice thing about DIY'ing these little marvels is that I'm getting better at 'cone swaps'. I know how I built it; it's not a big mystery about 'unbuilding' it. 😉
But the nice thing about DIY'ing these little marvels is that I'm getting better at 'cone swaps'. I know how I built it; it's not a big mystery about 'unbuilding' it. 😉
Hi Jerryrigged,
Remember the angle of the cone,...not just any angle will do. The angle is computed to give a perfectly cylindrical advancing wave-front. There is an optimum cone angle, hence size. So, if you choose a 1" VC, then follow the computed angle given in the patent or white papers. (there is some lengthy math involved). Any other angle will change the time and phase of the advancing wave-front off the surface of the cone and you will loose coherence.
Additionally, 5 mil is way to heavy for this driver. Again, remember, this is a bending wave driver not a bell.
The damping is too thin as well. Experiment with thin foam sheet between 1/8" an 1/2" thick.
Choose the length of the cone to fit a standard size foam surround.
Cheers.
Remember the angle of the cone,...not just any angle will do. The angle is computed to give a perfectly cylindrical advancing wave-front. There is an optimum cone angle, hence size. So, if you choose a 1" VC, then follow the computed angle given in the patent or white papers. (there is some lengthy math involved). Any other angle will change the time and phase of the advancing wave-front off the surface of the cone and you will loose coherence.
Additionally, 5 mil is way to heavy for this driver. Again, remember, this is a bending wave driver not a bell.
The damping is too thin as well. Experiment with thin foam sheet between 1/8" an 1/2" thick.
Choose the length of the cone to fit a standard size foam surround.
Cheers.
Got off the phone With Dale,
A very lengthy and informative talk indeed. I dont think you guys are going to be able to do better than what I have laid out. without going years into R&D to develop the math and formulas to calculate your own. A cheap carbon fabric can be used as practice I have plenty and I might even make one and post the slideshow Jerry was talking about.
A very lengthy and informative talk indeed. I dont think you guys are going to be able to do better than what I have laid out. without going years into R&D to develop the math and formulas to calculate your own. A cheap carbon fabric can be used as practice I have plenty and I might even make one and post the slideshow Jerry was talking about.
"Could be wrong....I could be right...." *S*
David, that would be terrific not only for our projects but for anyone wanting to work with cf. So much of what I've seen deals with making automotive items or just applying 'cf vinyls' to same. Post it to YouTube if you go ahead with it; diyers of all stripes would find it of great help.
Basically I agree with your comment and Dale's input. Rather than 'reinventing the wheel' as it were, the 'well beaten path' is the intelligent option. This places one at the point of one's skill levels, materials, and budget...not to mention available time and inclination of the pursuit.
Personally, my intention is to continue refining my 'V._' series so as to have an improved set of 4 for self. Although the current set has obvious acoustic flaws and compromises on materials (Yes, Dale...I knew 5 mil alum was too thick going in, but it was at hand and it 'proofed the pudding' 😉...), they work well enough for the time being and give me reason to continue my efforts. And although one could argue that the interference patterns that arise from playing a set of 4 may not be 'valid' from a strictly objective viewpoint, I find what occurs Fascinating. It leads me to want to 'play around with it', seeing what would occur if I introduce a slight delay into the back pair. I own an amp that would allow me to do that; however crudely that will ultimately sound I'll happily share the perceived results. As I intend over time to replace the computer that provides input into the system, there's the potential to be able to refine those parameters as well as the quality and eq. And then there's the possibilities of 'other manipulations', both digital and physical. I wouldn't balk at adding a mixer to the pile of odd electronics that I call a 'system'. This side trip requires an input of time that's short and cash that's tight, so it'll occur when it's time comes. If life has taught me anything, it's that patience isn't just a virtue...it's an absolute necessity in some aspects. Not that I'm driven to watch paint dry, however...*smirk*
Besides, the damn things make me smile. To my ancient and abused ears, they don't sound half bad. I gave up chasing the 'bleeding edge' of audio quite awhile ago when it developed stratospheric price levels and moved into nuances that I couldn't discern anymore. That, and having a dedicated listening space just wasn't practical; another reason for my pursuit of a small footprint driver(s) with a sub secreted away....
But that's my story and I'm sticking with it. Until the lotto ticket that I don't buy 'hits'. Then y'all might have reason to be frightened. *LOL*
Yeah, Dale, I should give you a call. We'd either have a good chat or it'll totally validate my need for some sort of high voltage therapy IYHO. 😉
Today's musical interlude:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8blDynXi5Ck
David, that would be terrific not only for our projects but for anyone wanting to work with cf. So much of what I've seen deals with making automotive items or just applying 'cf vinyls' to same. Post it to YouTube if you go ahead with it; diyers of all stripes would find it of great help.
Basically I agree with your comment and Dale's input. Rather than 'reinventing the wheel' as it were, the 'well beaten path' is the intelligent option. This places one at the point of one's skill levels, materials, and budget...not to mention available time and inclination of the pursuit.
Personally, my intention is to continue refining my 'V._' series so as to have an improved set of 4 for self. Although the current set has obvious acoustic flaws and compromises on materials (Yes, Dale...I knew 5 mil alum was too thick going in, but it was at hand and it 'proofed the pudding' 😉...), they work well enough for the time being and give me reason to continue my efforts. And although one could argue that the interference patterns that arise from playing a set of 4 may not be 'valid' from a strictly objective viewpoint, I find what occurs Fascinating. It leads me to want to 'play around with it', seeing what would occur if I introduce a slight delay into the back pair. I own an amp that would allow me to do that; however crudely that will ultimately sound I'll happily share the perceived results. As I intend over time to replace the computer that provides input into the system, there's the potential to be able to refine those parameters as well as the quality and eq. And then there's the possibilities of 'other manipulations', both digital and physical. I wouldn't balk at adding a mixer to the pile of odd electronics that I call a 'system'. This side trip requires an input of time that's short and cash that's tight, so it'll occur when it's time comes. If life has taught me anything, it's that patience isn't just a virtue...it's an absolute necessity in some aspects. Not that I'm driven to watch paint dry, however...*smirk*
Besides, the damn things make me smile. To my ancient and abused ears, they don't sound half bad. I gave up chasing the 'bleeding edge' of audio quite awhile ago when it developed stratospheric price levels and moved into nuances that I couldn't discern anymore. That, and having a dedicated listening space just wasn't practical; another reason for my pursuit of a small footprint driver(s) with a sub secreted away....
But that's my story and I'm sticking with it. Until the lotto ticket that I don't buy 'hits'. Then y'all might have reason to be frightened. *LOL*
Yeah, Dale, I should give you a call. We'd either have a good chat or it'll totally validate my need for some sort of high voltage therapy IYHO. 😉
Today's musical interlude:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8blDynXi5Ck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWrzhWnzhAs
Today's offering. IMHO, one of their best musically. Play loud. *S*
'See' y'all in a couple of days....
Today's offering. IMHO, one of their best musically. Play loud. *S*
'See' y'all in a couple of days....
Hi Gentlemen,
Thought you might like this....
Check out these pics at the link below...
lautsprecher_stereo_german_physiks_unicorn_mk_ii_bild_1326204027
Let me know if you can see them.
Dale
Thought you might like this....
Check out these pics at the link below...
lautsprecher_stereo_german_physiks_unicorn_mk_ii_bild_1326204027
Let me know if you can see them.
Dale
Try this link (eliminate the space in 'b ild' within Dale's link):
http://lautsprecher_stereo_german_physiks_unicorn_mk_ii_bild_1326204027[/URL]ild_1326204027
Or a direct link:
Test Lautsprecher Stereo - German Physiks Unicorn Mk II - Bildergalerie - Bild 4
http://lautsprecher_stereo_german_physiks_unicorn_mk_ii_bild_1326204027[/URL]ild_1326204027
Or a direct link:
Test Lautsprecher Stereo - German Physiks Unicorn Mk II - Bildergalerie - Bild 4
Last edited:
Thanks, Dale. The Google finds all....*L*
Pic 4 is of the most interest to moi'. Surround looks conventional, but I'd bet it isn't totally 'standard issue'. Just my muse whispering...
Jumpers for the crossover? How quaint. Bet that's the first thing that gets mislaid. 😉
But it does defeat switch degradation...
Any clue as to what GP asks for their 'modern miracles'? (Yeah, kinda snide, but their offerings tend towards 'well, I can do the down on a car or...' levels.). Just curious...
...off to 8, 9, 10esse...no banjos required...*L*
Pic 4 is of the most interest to moi'. Surround looks conventional, but I'd bet it isn't totally 'standard issue'. Just my muse whispering...
Jumpers for the crossover? How quaint. Bet that's the first thing that gets mislaid. 😉
But it does defeat switch degradation...
Any clue as to what GP asks for their 'modern miracles'? (Yeah, kinda snide, but their offerings tend towards 'well, I can do the down on a car or...' levels.). Just curious...
...off to 8, 9, 10esse...no banjos required...*L*
Per 'Touch of Modern' website, a pair of Unicorn Mk2's will run you $17,628...if they were on sale, which has ended. I'd hope that includes shipping.
*Sigh* Precisely why I'm diy'ing. I just got the bill for my hospital experience, which is just under $5K. Thanks to the ACA, it could have been north of $20K. So today's lesson is you can have high end audio or be cured of something potentially deadly...
I guess I can deal with 'not so good' reproduction. I can at least get to hear it.
Honestly, y'all....I'm not trying or intending to be snide or mean-spirited. Or, dis-ing a manufacturer's right to ask a price for a product. I/we have the same issue with what we (AshPlay) quote for our playset installations. We work hard to provide a safe, quality product for one's children. We DON'T guarantee that they can't or won't get hurt on them. No more than an audio merchant will guarantee that you won't cook your speakers or an amp, or f up your hearing by playing things too loudly. Nor your neighbor(s) re-arranging your face for the latter, if you opt for being a snot.
YES, they're a major investment. But they lead to a string of 'investments' in 'chasing the diminishing digit' behind the decimal point. I can sometimes hear the difference, given a controlled 'listening environment'....
I don't have one. Point of fact, nothing approaching one; perhaps never.
I'll be happy for those that do. I admire Tesla's too, and a happy to see them on the road. However, same issue. My 'ride' is a Dodge diesel 'dually' capable of hauling a trailer with a Bobcat and 'etc.' Practical. Not sexy, No.
We 'run what you brung'.
Rant over...my chest is lighter. PM me if you want to argue, but be aware that I hate to fight over what I feel is obvious. Sad in some ways, but obvious...*sigh*
*Sigh* Precisely why I'm diy'ing. I just got the bill for my hospital experience, which is just under $5K. Thanks to the ACA, it could have been north of $20K. So today's lesson is you can have high end audio or be cured of something potentially deadly...
I guess I can deal with 'not so good' reproduction. I can at least get to hear it.
Honestly, y'all....I'm not trying or intending to be snide or mean-spirited. Or, dis-ing a manufacturer's right to ask a price for a product. I/we have the same issue with what we (AshPlay) quote for our playset installations. We work hard to provide a safe, quality product for one's children. We DON'T guarantee that they can't or won't get hurt on them. No more than an audio merchant will guarantee that you won't cook your speakers or an amp, or f up your hearing by playing things too loudly. Nor your neighbor(s) re-arranging your face for the latter, if you opt for being a snot.
YES, they're a major investment. But they lead to a string of 'investments' in 'chasing the diminishing digit' behind the decimal point. I can sometimes hear the difference, given a controlled 'listening environment'....
I don't have one. Point of fact, nothing approaching one; perhaps never.
I'll be happy for those that do. I admire Tesla's too, and a happy to see them on the road. However, same issue. My 'ride' is a Dodge diesel 'dually' capable of hauling a trailer with a Bobcat and 'etc.' Practical. Not sexy, No.
We 'run what you brung'.
Rant over...my chest is lighter. PM me if you want to argue, but be aware that I hate to fight over what I feel is obvious. Sad in some ways, but obvious...*sigh*
Per 'Touch of Modern' website, a pair of Unicorn Mk2's will run you $17,628...if they were on sale, which has ended. I'd hope that includes shipping.
*Sigh* Precisely why I'm diy'ing. I just got the bill for my hospital experience, which is just under $5K. Thanks to the ACA, it could have been north of $20K. So today's lesson is you can have high end audio or be cured of something potentially deadly...
I guess I can deal with 'not so good' reproduction. I can at least get to hear it.
Honestly, y'all....I'm not trying or intending to be snide or mean-spirited. Or, dis-ing a manufacturer's right to ask a price for a product. I/we have the same issue with what we (AshPlay) quote for our playset installations. We work hard to provide a safe, quality product for one's children. We DON'T guarantee that they can't or won't get hurt on them. No more than an audio merchant will guarantee that you won't cook your speakers or an amp, or f up your hearing by playing things too loudly. Nor your neighbor(s) re-arranging your face for the latter, if you opt for being a snot.
YES, they're a major investment. But they lead to a string of 'investments' in 'chasing the diminishing digit' behind the decimal point. I can sometimes hear the difference, given a controlled 'listening environment'....
I don't have one. Point of fact, nothing approaching one; perhaps never.
I'll be happy for those that do. I admire Tesla's too, and a happy to see them on the road. However, same issue. My 'ride' is a Dodge diesel 'dually' capable of hauling a trailer with a Bobcat and 'etc.' Practical. Not sexy, No.
We 'run what you brung'.
Rant over...my chest is lighter. PM me if you want to argue, but be aware that I hate to fight over what I feel is obvious. Sad in some ways, but obvious...*sigh*
*Sigh* Precisely why I'm diy'ing. I just got the bill for my hospital experience, which is just under $5K. Thanks to the ACA, it could have been north of $20K. So today's lesson is you can have high end audio or be cured of something potentially deadly...
I guess I can deal with 'not so good' reproduction. I can at least get to hear it.
Honestly, y'all....I'm not trying or intending to be snide or mean-spirited. Or, dis-ing a manufacturer's right to ask a price for a product. I/we have the same issue with what we (AshPlay) quote for our playset installations. We work hard to provide a safe, quality product for one's children. We DON'T guarantee that they can't or won't get hurt on them. No more than an audio merchant will guarantee that you won't cook your speakers or an amp, or f up your hearing by playing things too loudly. Nor your neighbor(s) re-arranging your face for the latter, if you opt for being a snot.
YES, they're a major investment. But they lead to a string of 'investments' in 'chasing the diminishing digit' behind the decimal point. I can sometimes hear the difference, given a controlled 'listening environment'....
I don't have one. Point of fact, nothing approaching one; perhaps never.
I'll be happy for those that do. I admire Tesla's too, and a happy to see them on the road. However, same issue. My 'ride' is a Dodge diesel 'dually' capable of hauling a trailer with a Bobcat and 'etc.' Practical. Not sexy, No.
We 'run what you brung'.
Rant over...my chest is lighter. PM me if you want to argue, but be aware that I hate to fight over what I feel is obvious. Sad in some ways, but obvious...*sigh*
...and why the above 'double posted' is beyond my little brain. *L*
Either 'it' thought it was worth repeating, or just wanted to make me look the fool. *L*
I can handle either...😉
Either 'it' thought it was worth repeating, or just wanted to make me look the fool. *L*
I can handle either...😉
Jerry, you're not a fool. I admire what you're trying to do with the Walsh project. There was always something I liked about them when I was selling them, flaws and all.
We all do this because we like to, because we want to get that "something special" we want to hear, each in our own way.
"Keep on building" is all I can say.
jay
We all do this because we like to, because we want to get that "something special" we want to hear, each in our own way.
"Keep on building" is all I can say.
jay
*L* Hi, Jay! Boy, post a rant and the 'dust bunnies in the woodwork' show up...😉
I just had to get rid of that...the itch that won't go away. Dale, GP, et al are More than within their rights to ask what they feel is fair or the market will bear for their products. 'Ell, if I posted a list of 'things' that I'd like to or have liked to have owned, we'd be at page 72 and I'd have 'typist's cramp'. Not to mention thoroughly depressed...*L*
I'm just involved with 'spoofing' what could be considered 'the Real Thing' as best I might, with the admittedly crude constraints and limitations I'm faced with. It makes me feel better when GP admits, up front, that their units employ 'active eq'. Well, me too. Lots of it, in fact. But....when I find myself listening to my 'little clones' more than I listen to the my 'regular' speakers, which can blow them away in terms of response, accuracy, and sheer SPL....and I still smile at them, and dream of where they could go and Be....
It's a 'socially acceptable habituation'. *LOL* I could be addicted to drugs, sex, loud Harleys, or painting my house really annoying colors. Growing bamboo... the really invasive types..... Abusing my pets, my spouse, your spouse....the list gets endless. 😉
BTB, how's your plant project going? *L* Or have y'all just decided to nuke the back yard and go for that 'urban desert' look? *L*
I just had to get rid of that...the itch that won't go away. Dale, GP, et al are More than within their rights to ask what they feel is fair or the market will bear for their products. 'Ell, if I posted a list of 'things' that I'd like to or have liked to have owned, we'd be at page 72 and I'd have 'typist's cramp'. Not to mention thoroughly depressed...*L*
I'm just involved with 'spoofing' what could be considered 'the Real Thing' as best I might, with the admittedly crude constraints and limitations I'm faced with. It makes me feel better when GP admits, up front, that their units employ 'active eq'. Well, me too. Lots of it, in fact. But....when I find myself listening to my 'little clones' more than I listen to the my 'regular' speakers, which can blow them away in terms of response, accuracy, and sheer SPL....and I still smile at them, and dream of where they could go and Be....
It's a 'socially acceptable habituation'. *LOL* I could be addicted to drugs, sex, loud Harleys, or painting my house really annoying colors. Growing bamboo... the really invasive types..... Abusing my pets, my spouse, your spouse....the list gets endless. 😉
BTB, how's your plant project going? *L* Or have y'all just decided to nuke the back yard and go for that 'urban desert' look? *L*
I've just been working a lot of late, living in La Quinta's, eating 'misc foodstuffs', drinking 'painkillers'...
Just a bad case of 'mental feedback', with the Echoplex on 12... "Burnt Brain". One copes as one might...
Peter Gabriel's "Shock the Monkey" comes to mind....
Just a bad case of 'mental feedback', with the Echoplex on 12... "Burnt Brain". One copes as one might...
Peter Gabriel's "Shock the Monkey" comes to mind....
Euuuu,,, don't mention the plant project. We still have 500 of 'em to get in the ground. Before they freeze. The ground is still hard clay, and I'm still using the "air hammers" to break it up enough to add amendments....
Haven't even had time to listen to our existing sound system. I'm thinking about pulling the USB sound card and putting in one of my Turtle Beach internal cards. They were a _lot_ nicer than the cheap USB thing I got.
Found and fixed the "network" problem, network switch going bad. Completed wife's website after the "professional" said, "It' done, unless you want to pay more." Sheesh.
DP Design - Kitchen & Bath Design We think it came out ok.
Been thinking about my next speaker project, though. Something I can try a layered cabinet on.... Emjoy following your exploits.
Haven't even had time to listen to our existing sound system. I'm thinking about pulling the USB sound card and putting in one of my Turtle Beach internal cards. They were a _lot_ nicer than the cheap USB thing I got.
Found and fixed the "network" problem, network switch going bad. Completed wife's website after the "professional" said, "It' done, unless you want to pay more." Sheesh.
DP Design - Kitchen & Bath Design We think it came out ok.
Been thinking about my next speaker project, though. Something I can try a layered cabinet on.... Emjoy following your exploits.