Some eye candy...(it ought to be, for what it cost me)...but, pretty as it is, it sounds like sh*t!!
Thin is not working for me. Light, perhaps. But thin, no. Just not enough strength to stand up to the voice coil w/o "distortion". Oh well, something I had to try.
It is (was) 2 mil (.05 mm) polyimide (HN) BTW
Theory predicts low wave velocity with decreasing thickness. My 6mil polyprop cone absolutely smokes it...
Thin is not working for me. Light, perhaps. But thin, no. Just not enough strength to stand up to the voice coil w/o "distortion". Oh well, something I had to try.
It is (was) 2 mil (.05 mm) polyimide (HN) BTW
Theory predicts low wave velocity with decreasing thickness. My 6mil polyprop cone absolutely smokes it...
Attachments
So, to sum up what I've seen, Light-weight works (low inductance), Ridgid works (transient response), and Thicker works (good wave velocity)...
The Doctor is 'in'...
...up, about, and cheating by resorting to Wikipedia... 😉
The speed of sound is effected by the density of the media (in our case, cone materials) and the type of wave, transverse and longitudinal. The denser the material, the slower a wave moves through it. A longitudinal wave will move a tinesy bit faster, since it's not creating as much transverse motion...a high frequency wave for example. Whereas a bass frequency creates more transverse motion, which as we see in a conventional driver, the cone has to move more transversely to transfer that motion to the air.
The example that first came to mind, although flawed, is displayed by any of the strings on your dobro. Pluck any string, and a low(er) note is created...but the string vibrates at maximum. Fret anywhere, the string is shortened, and the vibration rate rises. And the string exhibits less transverse motion doing so.
There's also the condition that a string has to be plucked/stroked harder to create a low note vs. a high note, but the amount of energy you exert doing so you do unconsciously, muscle memory and all that... You've taught yourself to do such automatically, once you've practiced a particular riff or run in the course of a song.
Whereas a vc has to work harder to create bass waves, which we happily do by turning up the dial or moving a mouse, using more amps...which we have a marked tendency to have as much in reserve as desired/afforded.
All of the above is a bit simplistic, one stares at formulas that can tell one Precisely what's occurring within what and how but we're generally happy that the damn things work. *L*
Makes sense to me when considering cone materials....paper being 'lighter' will transmit a wave of higher frequency with less fuss with less energy, but is subject to 'break up' and unwanted motion with lower frequencies and higher power. The design of conventional drivers was/is fraught with those concerns. Using a metal or plastics, the weight increases as does the density. You can apply higher power, and as a rule need to. The undesirable motions and resonances will still occur, but in a different pattern....
Dale has undoubtedly wrestled with these sonic daemons many times, knows them all too well. Likely has 'pet' names for them by now, besides the more conventional and accurate ones. Coping with them is in his stock of 'trade secrets' that he'd likely want to brain wash departing employees of, as one runs out of real estate in the back yard to...well, 'retire' people to....*VeryEvilL*
In any case...does that help? It almost makes sense to me, too. *L*
I can fix broken hearts, too. But anyone with any sense in that condition won't get near me if I've got a knife in my hand. But it IS a permanent fix....😉
(I'm obviously feeling a lot better. *G*)
...up, about, and cheating by resorting to Wikipedia... 😉
The speed of sound is effected by the density of the media (in our case, cone materials) and the type of wave, transverse and longitudinal. The denser the material, the slower a wave moves through it. A longitudinal wave will move a tinesy bit faster, since it's not creating as much transverse motion...a high frequency wave for example. Whereas a bass frequency creates more transverse motion, which as we see in a conventional driver, the cone has to move more transversely to transfer that motion to the air.
The example that first came to mind, although flawed, is displayed by any of the strings on your dobro. Pluck any string, and a low(er) note is created...but the string vibrates at maximum. Fret anywhere, the string is shortened, and the vibration rate rises. And the string exhibits less transverse motion doing so.
There's also the condition that a string has to be plucked/stroked harder to create a low note vs. a high note, but the amount of energy you exert doing so you do unconsciously, muscle memory and all that... You've taught yourself to do such automatically, once you've practiced a particular riff or run in the course of a song.
Whereas a vc has to work harder to create bass waves, which we happily do by turning up the dial or moving a mouse, using more amps...which we have a marked tendency to have as much in reserve as desired/afforded.
All of the above is a bit simplistic, one stares at formulas that can tell one Precisely what's occurring within what and how but we're generally happy that the damn things work. *L*
Makes sense to me when considering cone materials....paper being 'lighter' will transmit a wave of higher frequency with less fuss with less energy, but is subject to 'break up' and unwanted motion with lower frequencies and higher power. The design of conventional drivers was/is fraught with those concerns. Using a metal or plastics, the weight increases as does the density. You can apply higher power, and as a rule need to. The undesirable motions and resonances will still occur, but in a different pattern....
Dale has undoubtedly wrestled with these sonic daemons many times, knows them all too well. Likely has 'pet' names for them by now, besides the more conventional and accurate ones. Coping with them is in his stock of 'trade secrets' that he'd likely want to brain wash departing employees of, as one runs out of real estate in the back yard to...well, 'retire' people to....*VeryEvilL*
In any case...does that help? It almost makes sense to me, too. *L*
I can fix broken hearts, too. But anyone with any sense in that condition won't get near me if I've got a knife in my hand. But it IS a permanent fix....😉
(I'm obviously feeling a lot better. *G*)
Yeah, it is pretty...too bad it bites. *arm on shoulder* Oh, well. Slash the cone off and recycle the driver...the cone might be handy for a motor oil funnel. 😉 And it'll be karmic in some way....*L*
But I think you've hit upon the 'cone conundrum', weight/rigidity/thickness to apply to a given material. I like how my 5 mil alum cones sound, but it takes power to make them do so. That, and to get reasonable treble requires a Big eq 'hump', ergo my looking at a tweet variant, cone material ?. Alum would seem to be 'better' to match 'characteristics', but again weight (albeit smaller) comes into play...
Ah, well. Crack a cold one, stare at the ceiling, and contemplate the next move. That's my excuse, and it kinda works. *G*
But I think you've hit upon the 'cone conundrum', weight/rigidity/thickness to apply to a given material. I like how my 5 mil alum cones sound, but it takes power to make them do so. That, and to get reasonable treble requires a Big eq 'hump', ergo my looking at a tweet variant, cone material ?. Alum would seem to be 'better' to match 'characteristics', but again weight (albeit smaller) comes into play...
Ah, well. Crack a cold one, stare at the ceiling, and contemplate the next move. That's my excuse, and it kinda works. *G*
If Dale was nearby, I could read his mind for you. I got pretty good at it, but gave it up.
Everybody (for the most part), same thing, over and over....The Big Four.
Food/Sleep/Money/Sex. Boring. Oh, there's the occasional 'side trip', but those are subject to personal peccadillos that pretty typ. Cars. Drugs. Audio gear....😉
Everybody (for the most part), same thing, over and over....The Big Four.
Food/Sleep/Money/Sex. Boring. Oh, there's the occasional 'side trip', but those are subject to personal peccadillos that pretty typ. Cars. Drugs. Audio gear....😉
Jerry, thanks for taking a shot at answering my question. I always enjoy your angle. 🙂
I bought a copy of E. Geddes book "audio transducers", he lives less than a half hour from me.
I bought a copy of E. Geddes book "audio transducers", he lives less than a half hour from me.
Thanks...since I never took a class in the subject my thoughts on it is obviously subject to my interpretations. I can't claim to have a flawless intellectual grasp of the various aspects, but I try to approach the nuances in my own *L* obscure fashion....
Now, there's a guy that would interesting to run into at a party. Ran a quick search on the book, the contents look like an A to Z on the subject. Enjoy...book report due next week. 😉
Been struggling with regaining some energy after the recent 'event'....the antibiotics have been playing hell with this organism, making me feel listless, drained. That, facing everything that got dropped in the interim just leaves this one bummed out yet antsy to get back into it. Topping that with the M.D. saying I shouldn't return to normal activity for a least a week makes for a not pleasant situation. As if I'm not crazy enough....
I shall survive, but it does make for psychic skid marks. *L*
Well, anyhow...Happy Pre-Labor Day. Don't do any. 😉
Now, there's a guy that would interesting to run into at a party. Ran a quick search on the book, the contents look like an A to Z on the subject. Enjoy...book report due next week. 😉
Been struggling with regaining some energy after the recent 'event'....the antibiotics have been playing hell with this organism, making me feel listless, drained. That, facing everything that got dropped in the interim just leaves this one bummed out yet antsy to get back into it. Topping that with the M.D. saying I shouldn't return to normal activity for a least a week makes for a not pleasant situation. As if I'm not crazy enough....
I shall survive, but it does make for psychic skid marks. *L*
Well, anyhow...Happy Pre-Labor Day. Don't do any. 😉
*G* Labor. But, agreed, too late...too much to do. Setting up for a one week out of town install in Hickory, 'bout 1 1/2 hr. east of here. At least we're staying there, avoiding a 'commute' to and fro. That's about our 'cut off', as it burns time and general energy levels doing so. But we've got to take the materials and equipment with us for the project.
At least it's a 'residential' vs. a 'commercial' one. Last commercial one, things 'grow legs and wander off'...a 4# sledge hammer, a gas can, some lumber...I suspect human involvement, but it's difficult to prove such. *shrug*
And thanks for the wish...*S* Last of the antibiotics yesterday, so we'll see if I can 'push the tempo' back up to my relative normal. 😉
Seriously though, let me know your thoughts on the book. Looks interesting, and I know there's gaps in my foggy intellect that could use some landfill...
Can't know too much...unless it's about one's neighbor's, ah, 'proclivities'...then it's generally better to go dark and stay there. *L*
At least it's a 'residential' vs. a 'commercial' one. Last commercial one, things 'grow legs and wander off'...a 4# sledge hammer, a gas can, some lumber...I suspect human involvement, but it's difficult to prove such. *shrug*
And thanks for the wish...*S* Last of the antibiotics yesterday, so we'll see if I can 'push the tempo' back up to my relative normal. 😉
Seriously though, let me know your thoughts on the book. Looks interesting, and I know there's gaps in my foggy intellect that could use some landfill...
Can't know too much...unless it's about one's neighbor's, ah, 'proclivities'...then it's generally better to go dark and stay there. *L*
Some eye candy...(it ought to be, for what it cost me)...but, pretty as it is, it sounds like sh*t!!
Thin is not working for me. Light, perhaps. But thin, no. Just not enough strength to stand up to the voice coil w/o "distortion". Oh well, something I had to try.
It is (was) 2 mil (.05 mm) polyimide (HN) BTW
Theory predicts low wave velocity with decreasing thickness. My 6mil polyprop cone absolutely smokes it...
stop messing around guys
Hi, Mags. And you're right...off subject into tangents too much.
Y'all will get a break from my silliness for awhile whilst out of town. Can't do more than Albert E's 'thought experiments' away from the bench. But happy to report I feel more like self should heading into the week's work, hotel beds, and random foodstuffs...
Enjoy the day. *S*
Y'all will get a break from my silliness for awhile whilst out of town. Can't do more than Albert E's 'thought experiments' away from the bench. But happy to report I feel more like self should heading into the week's work, hotel beds, and random foodstuffs...
Enjoy the day. *S*
"Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is always to try one more time." T. Edison
Or..."Just because something doesn't do what you planned it to do doesn't mean it's useless." T. Edison
Guys, Guys, Guys, seriously,...your killing me here 🙂
As you may have surmised, I am never far away. Seems you have lost a little focus here. Not unexpected, and really, a little levity is a good thing.
Sometimes your warm, then you get colder, then warm again, etc.
You know, when I began this sleigh ride some 45 years ago, I fought long and hard, actually 12 years worth to figure out the secrets that Dear Lincoln Walsh and Marty Gerstien had laid down. All these years later, I can finally say, with sincere humbleness that I am one of the only, if not the only person on the planet that truly understands the miracle that is "Walsh", but it has been a very lonely road and it came with a great price.
I now find myself in a great conundrum, as I would like to believe I am a Humanitarian. I want to help you, I would really love for you to succeed, But giving you the answers places my company and my employees at risk, not to mention the very large investment I have put into this company.
Giving away trade secrets is just not sound business practice. So, HOW do I help you without hurting HHR Exotic Speakers?
You obviously are not in a position to buy and enjoy our product offerings per our prior discussions. And I assure you that if you would call up say, Magico, or Wilson and say, hey what is the secret of your speakers, will you sell me some parts so I can duplicate them, you would probably hear a very abrupt "CLICK".
But You see, we are different to a degree, because I started this company with one goal and that was to bring the gift of music to everyone. After all, that is our company logo. "We give the gift of Music". It has never been about the bottom line, though I would like to stay in business.
I could give you the understanding and the recipe for the speakers or one of them, if each and every one of you were to sign a non-disclosure agreement, or a no compete contract, via separate private contact with me.
I could offer you an incentive program, such that, if you act as reps for us and help sell our products, so you make so much per actual sale and perhaps earn money to put toward purchase of your own speakers from us.
We basically exist as word of mouth and sell direct, since magazine advertisement simply does not pay. And Dealers are absolutely out of the question requiring us to raise our prices 50% to 100%. Doing shows is far too costly and leaves us at the Whims of some very Pompous and Flakey reviewers.
Then there is also this thread. And after reading it and you folks having conversed for so long, I think you would seriously miss it if you had all the answers. Maybe it is about the excitement of the hunt, the conquest. But what then...?
So, my question remains. How can I help you without hurting us. (and I do remember that one of you mentioned they would like to go commercial with these kinds of products if they had the secrets.)
My first recommendation, since I don't believe that any one of you have mentioned this in all your previous writings, would be to go to the German Physics web site, look up and very carefully read their "White Papers" regarding the DDD driver. Simply put, a Walsh driver by any other name.
I believe you will find this most helpful.
In the mean time I ask that you seriously consider what I have said and provide me, if you can, some realistic answers to the questions I have put forth.
As always, enjoy the music.
Dale
As you may have surmised, I am never far away. Seems you have lost a little focus here. Not unexpected, and really, a little levity is a good thing.
Sometimes your warm, then you get colder, then warm again, etc.
You know, when I began this sleigh ride some 45 years ago, I fought long and hard, actually 12 years worth to figure out the secrets that Dear Lincoln Walsh and Marty Gerstien had laid down. All these years later, I can finally say, with sincere humbleness that I am one of the only, if not the only person on the planet that truly understands the miracle that is "Walsh", but it has been a very lonely road and it came with a great price.
I now find myself in a great conundrum, as I would like to believe I am a Humanitarian. I want to help you, I would really love for you to succeed, But giving you the answers places my company and my employees at risk, not to mention the very large investment I have put into this company.
Giving away trade secrets is just not sound business practice. So, HOW do I help you without hurting HHR Exotic Speakers?
You obviously are not in a position to buy and enjoy our product offerings per our prior discussions. And I assure you that if you would call up say, Magico, or Wilson and say, hey what is the secret of your speakers, will you sell me some parts so I can duplicate them, you would probably hear a very abrupt "CLICK".
But You see, we are different to a degree, because I started this company with one goal and that was to bring the gift of music to everyone. After all, that is our company logo. "We give the gift of Music". It has never been about the bottom line, though I would like to stay in business.
I could give you the understanding and the recipe for the speakers or one of them, if each and every one of you were to sign a non-disclosure agreement, or a no compete contract, via separate private contact with me.
I could offer you an incentive program, such that, if you act as reps for us and help sell our products, so you make so much per actual sale and perhaps earn money to put toward purchase of your own speakers from us.
We basically exist as word of mouth and sell direct, since magazine advertisement simply does not pay. And Dealers are absolutely out of the question requiring us to raise our prices 50% to 100%. Doing shows is far too costly and leaves us at the Whims of some very Pompous and Flakey reviewers.
Then there is also this thread. And after reading it and you folks having conversed for so long, I think you would seriously miss it if you had all the answers. Maybe it is about the excitement of the hunt, the conquest. But what then...?
So, my question remains. How can I help you without hurting us. (and I do remember that one of you mentioned they would like to go commercial with these kinds of products if they had the secrets.)
My first recommendation, since I don't believe that any one of you have mentioned this in all your previous writings, would be to go to the German Physics web site, look up and very carefully read their "White Papers" regarding the DDD driver. Simply put, a Walsh driver by any other name.
I believe you will find this most helpful.
In the mean time I ask that you seriously consider what I have said and provide me, if you can, some realistic answers to the questions I have put forth.
As always, enjoy the music.
Dale
Dale, let me ponder your question.
And, I agree; a little gritty sand is essential to making the pearl... 😉