depends on the height of the table, ill probably only use 1 since i intend to make it as thin as possible while still being rigid with enough width for the belt, so ill probably layer the wood like i said, crossing eachother glued together... drill a 1/4 inch hole (i believe its 1/4 inch for the center pin) to mount that, then use a soft, silicone rubber type glue to glue a bearing into the bottom of the table, probably with a bolt already through it so i can feed that bolt through a hole in the table and fix it on with a nut from underneath
if not, ill get a pin i can somehow mount to the platter from the top, epoxy glue a steel bushing into the base and i can just bolt the platter on from the top, then put on the center pin and the rubber mat... im actually going to start drawing up the design of it all later tonight in 3D, ill post the results here
if not, ill get a pin i can somehow mount to the platter from the top, epoxy glue a steel bushing into the base and i can just bolt the platter on from the top, then put on the center pin and the rubber mat... im actually going to start drawing up the design of it all later tonight in 3D, ill post the results here
Few days ago I was listening the new turntable project by my friend,about which I was writing few posts back.It is an vertical design and this bring a lot of benefits.Here I will mention just few of them,as I am not a designer.
The tonearm is tangential and obviously vertical and so it do not need the counter-weight and anti skating.This two things resolve a lot of troubles of horizontal tonearms.The sound stage is higher,deeper and a little bit wider too.The instruments are better positioned and you have a lot more of air around them.
The platter diameter is 400mm and have very big inertia,that mean bigger dynamic and better timing and you do not need three motor for this like I have.
The official presentation of the turntable will be on middle of October in Ljubljana hifi show and then I or better if,the designer Bruno Puhar will put some pictures and more detailed explanation here.
The tonearm is tangential and obviously vertical and so it do not need the counter-weight and anti skating.This two things resolve a lot of troubles of horizontal tonearms.The sound stage is higher,deeper and a little bit wider too.The instruments are better positioned and you have a lot more of air around them.
The platter diameter is 400mm and have very big inertia,that mean bigger dynamic and better timing and you do not need three motor for this like I have.
The official presentation of the turntable will be on middle of October in Ljubljana hifi show and then I or better if,the designer Bruno Puhar will put some pictures and more detailed explanation here.
Most good conventional bearings have a single ball running on a thrust plate and the spindle rides on this and is centered by a set of precise sleeve bearings - usually sintered bronze, but other materials have been used. A conventional ball bearing has an inner and outer race and a bunch of circulating balls as opposed to a single moving part - all of those moving parts will make noise and adding more ball bearings will make even more noise. Why re-invent the wheel when there are good examples of what will work? Do some research and you will not find a single platter running on abec - anything bearings because they are too noisy.. There are also air bearings and variations on the standard bearing theme that run on a heavy film of oil..
Packing with the aerogel would hopefully add some lossy rigidity to the tube. Aerogel is essentially glass foam. It is very low density while being quite rigid.
Keep your design simple. A turntable is a funny beast due to how much amplification the signal needs. High rigidity, high mass, and high damping are your friends. The trick is compromising where you have to; ie high mass in a tonearm can be problematic.
ooo, vertical turntable. I thought of that as well. It would save all kinds of shelf space... I would really like to see that design if you can share.
Keep your design simple. A turntable is a funny beast due to how much amplification the signal needs. High rigidity, high mass, and high damping are your friends. The trick is compromising where you have to; ie high mass in a tonearm can be problematic.
ooo, vertical turntable. I thought of that as well. It would save all kinds of shelf space... I would really like to see that design if you can share.
by vertical, you are in fact talking about the record spinning parallel to a wall, right?.. like the wall hung models?... seems the only thing you would need is a spring you could adjust so the tip stays in the groove and doesnt get bounced out and a way of holding the record perfectly flat to the turntable... the way i would do it is have a metal hub to the turntable, then drill a hole in the center of a magnet to slip over the center pin... same way CD drives hold a disc in place
the more ive been thinking about it though, the more ive been thinking of going with a linear tonearm mechanism whos platform is simply one sleeve sliding left and right over a tube or rod.. if the arm itself was rigid enough there wouldnt be much of a threat of skating but mine would still have a tail on it to counterbalance... this does sound like it would cause problems, even to me thinking up the idea with friction trying to prevent the arm from sliding side to side
ive never thought about a vertical idea though, it just doesnt feel right to me when playing records on one
the more ive been thinking about it though, the more ive been thinking of going with a linear tonearm mechanism whos platform is simply one sleeve sliding left and right over a tube or rod.. if the arm itself was rigid enough there wouldnt be much of a threat of skating but mine would still have a tail on it to counterbalance... this does sound like it would cause problems, even to me thinking up the idea with friction trying to prevent the arm from sliding side to side
ive never thought about a vertical idea though, it just doesnt feel right to me when playing records on one
I think B&O designed one or two models that could 😉
about the 'bearing'
its about exstremely 'tight' tolerances
tho I think there have been design with cheramic pads
strategic placed around the spindle
or you might be able to use nylon rings
air assisted bearing is another option
but air pumps are usually noisy and annoying
As Kevinkr said, a sleeve/thrust bearing is the way to go. Most of the surface will be an oil film save the thrust surface which should have minimal contact. I'm not even nuts about ball bearings in a tonearm.
Linear tonearms need much much lower friction than can be achieved with any linear plain bearing.
This guy used a linear roller bearing. I love it's simplicity: DIY tonearm using linear motion bushing - caligari - Vinyl Asylum
This arm uses two roller bearings sliding in a glass tube: Opus 3 Continuo turntable [English]
Both of those arms are extremely elegant.
I would use a unipivot mounted on a linear track which was driven. But this would be a pretty advanced design.
This guy used a linear roller bearing. I love it's simplicity: DIY tonearm using linear motion bushing - caligari - Vinyl Asylum
This arm uses two roller bearings sliding in a glass tube: Opus 3 Continuo turntable [English]
Both of those arms are extremely elegant.
I would use a unipivot mounted on a linear track which was driven. But this would be a pretty advanced design.
what do you guys think of this?..
Amazon.com: Brand New Gemini Hd-15 Headshell for Any Phono Cartridge: Electronics
that round piece on the back end.. is that just a fitting to attach it to something?.. i could probably glue that into a carbon fiber tube for my tonearm
for a pre-amp, have any of you used a tube pre-amp for your diy players?... found schematics for making a simple pre-amp that uses a 12ax7 tube that seemed like it would produce awesome sound quality
Amazon.com: Brand New Gemini Hd-15 Headshell for Any Phono Cartridge: Electronics
that round piece on the back end.. is that just a fitting to attach it to something?.. i could probably glue that into a carbon fiber tube for my tonearm
for a pre-amp, have any of you used a tube pre-amp for your diy players?... found schematics for making a simple pre-amp that uses a 12ax7 tube that seemed like it would produce awesome sound quality
tade... thats exactly what i had in mind for a possible linear idea... the first one i mean.. that has to be a pretty small linear bearing though
Amazon.com: 6mm Linear Motion Bearing/Bushing LM6UU: Industrial & Scientific
what if i took a piece of carbon fiber tubing.... cut the end of one to fit around a horizontal piece of tubing and epoxy glued them together, then glued on a tail section... then i could glue the linear bushing into the horizontal piece of tube and have it slide horizontally along a rail which could be a piece of straight stainless steel rod or even another piece of carbon fiber tubing... ill sketch up a tonearm later and post it here.. with the bushing idea in mind.. thats like the ultimate in simplicity right there, and reduces the number of moving parts too
what if i took a piece of carbon fiber tubing.... cut the end of one to fit around a horizontal piece of tubing and epoxy glued them together, then glued on a tail section... then i could glue the linear bushing into the horizontal piece of tube and have it slide horizontally along a rail which could be a piece of straight stainless steel rod or even another piece of carbon fiber tubing... ill sketch up a tonearm later and post it here.. with the bushing idea in mind.. thats like the ultimate in simplicity right there, and reduces the number of moving parts too
linear bearings
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I was searching online and I think these might be suitable for the project. Not sure, just a hunch. They're miniature sized and low mass and low friction.
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This can travel horizontally and vertically.
IKO Miniature Stroke Rotary Bushing | Products | IKO NIPPON THOMPSON
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This can travel horizontally only.
IKO Stroke Ball Spline G LS | Products | IKO NIPPON THOMPSON
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I think this place, Maryland Metric, sells IKO linear motion bearings.
MARYLAND METRICS 'HOME PAGE'
Their catalog in PDF.
http://mdmetric.com/prod/iko/ikostain.pdf
.
.
I was searching online and I think these might be suitable for the project. Not sure, just a hunch. They're miniature sized and low mass and low friction.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This can travel horizontally and vertically.
IKO Miniature Stroke Rotary Bushing | Products | IKO NIPPON THOMPSON
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
This can travel horizontally only.
IKO Stroke Ball Spline G LS | Products | IKO NIPPON THOMPSON
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I think this place, Maryland Metric, sells IKO linear motion bearings.
MARYLAND METRICS 'HOME PAGE'
Their catalog in PDF.
http://mdmetric.com/prod/iko/ikostain.pdf
.
directdriver.. how about these linear ideas... idea 1 is to use a lubricated bronze bushing (really cheap, used for similar applications)... this cheap bronze bushing can slide along the rail, and rotate...
second option is to use the linear bushing which just slides on the bar or tube.. but the bar itself is held on each end by a roller bearing in a pillow block allowing the entire rail itself to rotate...
either of those ideas are really, really inexpensive, simple, and would work very well
second option is to use the linear bushing which just slides on the bar or tube.. but the bar itself is held on each end by a roller bearing in a pillow block allowing the entire rail itself to rotate...
either of those ideas are really, really inexpensive, simple, and would work very well
Guys, please don't underestimate horizontal stiction and how easy it is to tear off your cantilever.
I've been wondering how well these bearings would work also. There is a YouTube video of someone that has made an arm using similar or the same bearings. Seemed to work well, although it was difficult to hear if there was rumble added by the bearings. If transcription is the main purpose, very low frequency rumble might be efffectively eliminated by filtering during the conversion to digital.
Anyone used them yet?
Anyone used them yet?
right now I thinking of a funny-arm 😀
its a manually operated tangential arm
imagine a uni pivot radial arm
but mounted on a tangential sledge
the tangential movement is done by hand
you simply place the arm where you want to listen
the amount of 'radial play' can be adjusted by arm length
small amount off-set is still present, but less than with usual radial arm
its the ultimate enthusiast arm 😀
its a manually operated tangential arm
imagine a uni pivot radial arm
but mounted on a tangential sledge
the tangential movement is done by hand
you simply place the arm where you want to listen
the amount of 'radial play' can be adjusted by arm length
small amount off-set is still present, but less than with usual radial arm
its the ultimate enthusiast arm 😀
i think a bronze bushing which has no wheels or balls in it moving on a greesed rod would work really well... very little friction, no bearings to add noise, ultimate simplicity, inexpensive, and it would work too... as long as the shaft was cleaned and greased on occassion i dont think there would be any reliability issues with the system either... and if the rod was only anchored on one end like ive seen you could just slip the tonearm off, clean the bearing and rod, grease, and slip it back on
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