DIY Small Panel Projector

Status
Not open for further replies.
As long as the 1.8" LCD has the same resolution, there wouldn't be a difference in quality (there might be minor differences from brand to brand, but generally, the quality would be the same). Higher resolution gives a higher quality image, no matter what the size of the LCD (just look at some commercial projectors... 0.7" LCD's!!).

Most small LCD's (~6" and smaller) are made for mobile video use and will have NTSC/PAL inputs. Most have composite RCA inputs, but some have S-video or RGB. www.partsexpress.com has several LCD's, but none under 4". I don't know of any off the top of my head that have computer inputs...you could add a video card to your computer that has composite or S-video output. This is a popular option with the HTPC crowd (see www.avsforum.com for more info on HTPC).

The other guys on this thread can give more help on finding smaller LCD's (less than 4"). I'm out of the loop on that info...I'm just a curious "OHP/big panel" guy!

Best of luck to you.

-f4
 
fender4,

Can you run MH's straight off of 110?

I don't understand why the projector companies haven't made those available for the slide projector bulb market. It's annoying and costly to keep changing a $15 dollar bulb every 30 hours.
Is there some problem with doing a straight replacement to MH's on a slide projector?

I know the company that manufactured my projector (Telex) marketed a MH version of this projector but, the bulbs are so expensive. Is there a cheap source for MH, or are we noticeably degrading the picture by getting those?

I would really like to modify my projector for that. Without, substantially degrading the picture. Do they require additional circuitry? Are any manufactured in the slide projector bulb format?

I notice so many people in the other thread using so many different types of light. What do you find to be the best choice? What were your trade-off's?

...I suppose the lights are not "even" in their output across the visible band. And, that's why I'm made to pay so much for this ELH projector-bulbs', evenly-saturated light. What do you think comes close and is markedly cheaper?

Thanks in advance for any info you can offer.
 
OK, here is my take on the lights issue. This is a VERY simplified explanation, and hopefully it is correct (somebody jump in if I make a mistake 😉 ).

Metal halides are the most efficient bulbs that are available for our purpose. In all cases, they require a special socket (cheap) and a ballast (not very cheap...at least $50-80). The "big dogs" use, as far as I know, variations on the MH theme. The differences between bulbs that are available to us for cheap and the $500-700 bulbs for commercial projectors (that don't last nearly as long) are:

1) Commercial bulbs are closer to a true "point-source". The arcs in the bulbs are very small, and this makes it much easier to produce even lighting. It makes the lighting more efficient for projection purposes because reflectors are easier to design that make use of most all of the light. Cheap MH bulbs (the ones we want) have a larger arc, making them more difficult to produce even, consistent rays of light. This is more important when using fresnels (like OHPs), but it is still something to shoot for in any projection system, IMO.

2) Commercial bulbs are physically smaller. This makes them much easier to mount in reflectors, and makes the reflectors smaller as well. This is important with small LCD's.

3) "Our" MH bulbs are MUCH, MUCH cheaper (~$20-80), ranging from the Home Depot variety to more expensive reef aquarium lights.

4) "Our" MH bulbs have so far proven to be VERY difficult to reflect efficiently. Elliptical and parabolic designs have been tossed around, but these still work best with a true "point source" light. Orthogonal parabolic or elliptical reflectors overcome this limitation with some special geometry...they would work better with these types of long-arc bulbs, but no one has tried to construct one yet (difficult 🙁 ).

Basically, I think that a cheap MH bulb would not be a good choice for retrofitting a slide projector. However, creating a projector from scratch with the lens assembly from the slide projector could be a possibility with the MH.

By the way, MH bulbs MUST be rated at the same amount of watts as the ballast. Bulbs/ballasts come in many different wattages, but common ones are 175watts and 400watts (I have seen some 250watts, but they don't seem to be as common). You can expect to get at least 100 lumens per watt, which works out to over 40,000 lumens for a 400 watt bulb! Pretty powerful for a small LCD.

The challenge would still be finding a reflector. My guess would be that for a small LCD/MH combo could be done using a small parabolic "dish" behind the bulb and a "parabolic lens" in front of it.....these are the things that are sometimes used with fluorescent bulbs in offices to direct the light towards the floor (looks like a honeycomb but with squares instead of hexagons). This could help gather some radiating light that might be lost on its way to the LCD, but it is probably not at all necessary. Just an idea.

I should be able to answer this tommorrow (my OHP is coming in!), but I think that some OHP bulbs (halogens) run on 120 AC line voltage. I might be wrong, though. I just base this on a OHP schematic I saw a few weeks ago.

Well, I need some sleep. I've been a thread hog today, so I need to take a break. If any of this stuff doesn't make sense, or if it is incorrect, please let me know. I'm still learning!!! And 99% of what I know came from the threads on this board and from google searches.

later,
f4
 
SushiMasterX,
to complete my report about my first LCD TV: This was a Philps 4LC1000/08R, 4", 89000 pixel panel, built 1987. It has a backlight, which can be removed, but has very short ribbon cables. Since it was to large for genuine slide dimensions, i ripped the whole lighting unit out of the case of the slide projector, put off 2 condensors and replaced them with a larger condensor lens from a stagelight. Projection lens was an objective from a copy device. This worked, but pixelation was terrible. So i searched a long time for better panel, but no way! And no Internet at that time! I knew it could work, only had to replace the panel. Read all journals and news about new developments. And then they all came: One panel projectors. projection panels, 3-panel projectors DMDs, but way beyond my budget.
During the time of waiting i learnt and still learn all about projectors, screens, optics, lasers, CRTs and i would say, a lot has changed, but not necessarily positive for DIYers. If you want an evaluation kit or an optical engine it costs you 5k$ upwards. In a mass market, you have still problems to get single hightec components, let's say a 120w UHP light unit, which is used in many projectors.
Refering to heat probs, the beam splitters are separating colours to R=630nm, G=530nm, B=470nm. This could be the answer to the question, why this 0,7" panels don't burn out. No significant IR is produced after color separation. In a reversal conclusion this also could be the answer, why these single panel projectors never exeeded the brightness of ~ 400 Ansilumens. Maybe this is a physical limitation due to LCD panels temperature working range! This also may be a reason, why large panels are better choice for projection purposes, 'cause the heat is distributed to a larger area.

cheers
xblocker
 
fender4:

If you want to make a point source, the best way is to use an elliptical reflector and an aperture. (The aperture could just be a big sheet of aluminum painted black with a hole in it.) Put the bulb at one foci of the ellipse and the aperture at the other. If you do it right you should make the most of your light source and get a point source at the same time. I will try this when my OHP comes. You can get the elliptical reflector from Edmund Optics ($17-$90 depending on size).

CR
 

Attachments

  • 1512.gif
    1512.gif
    4 KB · Views: 1,164
Ribbon Cable Solution?!?!

I've been watching and posting a bit on the other forum and I think I might have a possible workaround for those fragile ribbon connectors.

It seems to me that once you get to the point where the ribbon is visible and you have the tv/panel laid out flat you could reinforce the strength of that cable at each end of the junction.

How? Call me crazy, but I'd build a good layer of 100% silicone caulk from the circuit board out a quarter to half inch down the ribbon connector. This should act as a nonconductive strain relief and take some of the pressure off those microscopic solder connections. I would do this on both ends (circuit side and lcd side) being careful not to contaminate the face of the LCD.

Matter of fact, for the shorter ribbon cables like you guys in the small lcd forum are using, I might put a thin layer of silicone all the way up and down that ribbon, stiffening it (prevent tearing-although that hasn't been as big a problem as at the solder connections.

You'd need to let it fully cure overnight before messing with it.

What do you guys think? Am I onto something (OR JUST ON SOMETHING LOL)?

Enjoy.
 
"Greetings User's!" -TRON

ChuckReese, fender4, lokost, xblocker, et al:

Thanks for the savoury info's. Certainly good to have your combined experience's to help facilitate the small panel "pot-shot", begun with. Mucho's gracias'es'ses! You guys give great "thread"....And, really to the little people, thanks! I've worked so hard for this award and I wish, I,..I...Oh, my god!...It's Fart-man!!...lookout!

Seriously, I'm so glad others have looked at this and hope Sony or who-ever isn't missing a bourgeois niche'(we demand color, one panel, small, reasonably hi-res panels. Now, please!), that so many of us "DIY Projection" folk want fulfilled. But, that's what DIY'ers enjoy, anyhow! The frontiers-man/person approach. Where are you Soni!?! Come back!...come back...No...no! Stay there! So WE can get some limelight.

f4, got "sleep"?

Is it Der, Die or Das Volksprojektor?

These abbreviated (?), experienced, discussions help to improve/compress the DIY video forum and bring it over, at 3:O'clock...GMT, ha-ha.

Lokost, looks like I will be eating my hat tonight. Ran across a link on the "wearables" org for a side-by-side demonstration of the difference between the Glasstron 700 and the 500. The way they state it is, that the resolution WAS divided by three to give the ~300x234, or thereabouts, you presented! A visual for us to see here. This shows the perceptual difference of the two. Lokost! I/we weren't alone on this! And, my hat is very chewy!

These folks seem to know what they're talking about. Hardcore VR'ers! The Sony 700 Glasstron and the Canon Eyetrek 700 with "OSR" (another 800x600 panel, coupled with another panel/device, put in, before the lcd, that makes the picture appear as a 720k pixel panel would! Using approximation circuitry and tiny controlled RGB diffuser's) are the only resources for hi-res, color, transmissive, one-panel lcd's, readily. A search on Ebay for the Eyetrek 700 shows: ~$1000 for two panels, though. But, only one driver.

This and the Sony VR glasses BEING produced implies that they made these panels in "numbers" (cheaper?). And, they are available thru the headset's on-street, or they are in little plastic bags somewhere, OEM-wise. However, post production is dodgey. But, for now, this may work. "Hi! I broke my glasses, can you tell me the cost to replace a panel and driver?" $$$$$$$, WHAT!!!
The big Butt being, 'is it "depressed-cost", available!' ? Answer, 'usually-not'. So, rip 'em from Ebay, etc.,....but, it's do-able for the DIY-savvy, portable, seeker.

Here's the comparison picture->
 

Attachments

  • imagecompareresolution.jpg
    imagecompareresolution.jpg
    81.7 KB · Views: 1,108
LightByte,

480x234, good! 2.5", bad!

I'm trying to keep talk applicable for slide projector insertion. 1.8" or smaller seems to be perfect.

Please find us some panels of this size!

Thanks for the post nonetheless.

It would however be good for "us" to keep a look at the 2-4" range as these are being used in PDA's, dig-cam's. A foreseeable resource and extension of this thread, if the juicy hi-res stuff is there!
'DIY Medium-Small Panel' ? Ha-ha!

Thanks!
 
Lightbyte great find!

Exactly what the Dr. ordered!
If they have em in stock, I'll post about it! Tuesday!
Your in MI too. I'm heading to the Detroit Elec Music Fest (DEMF) down at Hart plaza tmrw and Monday. Too rainy now. You into that? 1.7 Million people last year!
Anyhow, thanks for locating the panel!

Xblocker: Der Volksprojektor panel fur mich, und du! Sweet!
Good info in the Industry news section. Good resource for being up to date. And some links too! Viel dank!

Have a good weekend folks!
 
I just found this post , I've been following the other one, but this is just want I'm looking for. I bought the 4 inch lcd module from partsexpress. When I took it about it seemed simple to remove the backlight, but when i took off the metal shield i got scared. This thing had 5 flexi-cable each with 16 conductors, 2 on one side and 3 on the another connected a circiutboard that covered the back of the lcd . Now i thought i could extend two of them and then i would have put a light source directly behind the lcd.

I cut the two flexi-cable and tried to extend them bad idea i cant fing any method of making them longer. Does anyone have any ideas or method to try or a company that sells flexi-cable.

You can check www.allcorp.com, they have a black and white lcd 5'' 640x480 driverboard included and hookup diagram for 20.00 good by but not color, they also sell a delta 67 lense perfect for those 1.8 and 2.5 lcd.
 
Small panels

SushiMasterX
Glad you like that one! Keep us posted.
I live on the west side of the state, but I know about the festival. Unfortunately I am working 🙁

RichBack
Yep, that is the same panel I just posted about, it looks promising.
 
That'll work too!

Same panel as 6 posts up^.

Both say "Marshalls" on there. 528x234 sounds good and should look "on-screen" as, somewhere between the two resolutions in the post up above.
Should be fine for DVD movies too. And wide-screen is nice on these, although you waste some of your vertical pix. SVHS connector on board as well!

Let's see if either have them in stock, though.

I smell success coming!

Here's the pic (below), off the sites, of the panel and driver board. $159. Would be better if it was about $100 though, or even free! ha

If these are available, then next thing to work on is keeping the panel cool. Extra fans, UV/IR blocking/retarding, mirrors/filters, and maybe even peltier chips mounted to the panel.

Lighting can be explored too! Oh my gosh! Aleksey, "Dude! You gotta get a 'Volksprojektor'!" ho-ho-ho!

I will try to mount the device into the carousel tray. As the Kopin inventor patented back in '88. He has a zillion patents and manufactures the ultra-small lcd's as well for head-ware.

Anyhow, that would allow us to simply carry the carousel around and throw it on your buddies projector, or use it as a frisbee!
 

Attachments

  • v-lcd1.8-p.jpg
    v-lcd1.8-p.jpg
    41.9 KB · Views: 1,019
The little LCD looks pretty nice, but I'm looking for something I could switch into a car mp3 system if the projector doesnt work out. Where could I get a large enough projection lense for a 5" LCD. Also, would a condensor help focus light from a flourescent bulb(low heat) at the lcd screen?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.