Diy inspired by JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor

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#21
plasnu said:
It would be interesting. Someone in that forum has already compared them with M2 waveguide. No measurement, but he said he preferred the sound of 2450SL-Be over D2.
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That's very possible - depending where the xover point is. I'm not saying that D2430K is the best sounding driver JBL has to offer at low levels at home. I'm just saying that it is adapted to M2 waveguide (or vice versa) to be able to withstand hi power with low distortion.

Also, Be (that is aftermarket since JBL does not offer drivers with Be diaphragms) is far superior to Al or Ti in regard to stiffnes to weight ratio so it is not quite fair comparison. I'm guessing that JBL doesn't offer Be diaphragms because that would skyrocket prices for already (imo) expensive compression drivers.
 
#22
plasnu said:
Hahaha, JBL might concern that many people would clone M2 for too small money. lol.
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My guess is that hype about M2 lead to increase in prices for M2 components and that The Speaker Exchange lifts the prices on their own. It is very suspicious that drivers that are made by JBL PRO division (which is the only reason they are available to DIY-ers, because they must supply the repair parts for VTX series) changes prices that fast.
 
#25
#27
I've built a similar speaker using the Deltalite 2512 - it's an excellent driver.

I built mine with the (now sold) BMS 4594HE above 700 Hz. It was good sounding, but inefficient, required a large cabinet and didn't play much below 40 Hz.

If you can get a waveguide shape like the M2 through DIY, and a separate amplifier to drive the Deltalite, you may be onto something.

It bears mentioning that there are thousands of satisfied Econowave builders, which indicates a mature design, with the kinks worked out of matching the parts altogether.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
#28
anji12305 said:
I've built a similar speaker using the Deltalite 2512 - it's an excellent driver.

I built mine with the (now sold) BMS 4594HE above 700 Hz. It was good sounding, but inefficient, required a large cabinet and didn't play much below 40 Hz.

If you can get a waveguide shape like the M2 through DIY, and a separate amplifier to drive the Deltalite, you may be onto something.

It bears mentioning that there are thousands of satisfied Econowave builders, which indicates a mature design, with the kinks worked out of matching the parts altogether.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
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If I don't play at earth shaking window rattling club volumes, what is the benefit of having a separate amp for the woofer? I have a vintage Pioneer SX2500 with 72 watts per channel RMS into 8 ohms. Shouldn't that do a reasonable job all by itself?
 
#29
OK, I think it is time for me to rephrase my question.

Can anybody guide me to an existing econowave design based on the D&C de250 compression driver with a maximum cab volume of 150L and a well designed passive crossover.........sensitive enough to be powered by one amp (my Pioneer SX 2500 72W receiver)?

I do not have the knowledge to design my own crossover but my soldering skills should be sufficient to build one from existing schematics. For the woofers I am looking to spend $150 to max $300 a pair.

My focus is good sound at normal listening levels.....not blowing of the roof 🙂 I listen to anything from small jazz to hard rock and electronic music. Bass should be substantial enough to be enjoyable without adding a subwoofer.

Thanks!
 
#33
The 2408H and the 2408H-1 are quite different. The latter uses a phase plug designed by JBL's chief engineer.

I posted some measurements a week ago; they're quite good.

Not saying the old driver is junk, just saying the new driver might be worth the $20 premium.
 
#34
For price of one JBL 2408H-1 you can get one pair of Celestion CDX1-1745 or you can add 50$ and buy a pair of B&C DE250-8. It costs a bit more than BMS 4550 and same as B&C DE500. BMS 4550 is insanely good compression driver.

Both can be used lower than 2KHz in Pyle PH612/Dayton H6512. I used it as low as 1500Hz with no issues for quite a long time.

There is absolutely no reason for buying driver with lower power handling that costs more money. Or you see in it something i don't ?
 
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#35
ErikNils said:
OK, I think it is time for me to rephrase my question.

Can anybody guide me to an existing econowave design based on the D&C de250 compression driver
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See the Deluxe and Delite projects in the original econowave thread :
Flex Your PCD Mettle: - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum

SEOS projects evolved out of the Econowave movement. SEOS 12 builds by Bill Waslo that Zvu linked you to seem to fit the bill:
Links to Completed Speaker Designs | HiFiCircuit

Regarding Bill's SEOS Designer 12 and Eminence Delta 12a builds, it appears to be basically low extension VS higher sensitivity.

Also, there is the Fusion 12:
Fusion-12 DIY Sound Group

NB: the B&C DE250 and DNA360 compression drivers are interchangeable (though the latter is cheaper).
 
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#37
Zvu said:
For price of one JBL 2408H-1 you can get one pair of Celestion CDX1-1745 or you can add 50$ and buy a pair of B&C DE250-8. It costs a bit more than BMS 4550 and same as B&C DE500. BMS 4550 is insanely good compression driver.

Both can be used lower than 2KHz in Pyle PH612/Dayton H6512. I used it as low as 1500Hz with no issues for quite a long time.

There is absolutely no reason for buying driver with lower power handling that costs more money. Or you see in it something i don't ?
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I brought up the 2408h-1 because it's very similar to the D2-2430K. Same company, same designer. If you want to make an inexpensive version of the M2, it's a good candidate.
 
#38
I fail to see any technical resemblance between D2430K and 2408H-1 besides the fact that JBL makes them.

JBL DA2420 or JBL D2415 on the other hand looks good and shares that same new technology, but who knows what would be the pricing on those...
 
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#40
Zvu said:
I fail to see any technical resemblance between D2430K and 2408H-1 besides the fact that JBL makes them.

JBL DA2420 or JBL D2415 on the other hand looks good and shares that same new technology, but who knows what would be the pricing on those...
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The 2408H-1 is a single diaphragm driver, but it is also a ring radiator and its phase plug is similar to that of the D2430K and the D2415K. I think this is what Patrick meant.

The D2415K looks like a possible candidate for a mini M2, but I have not seen any measurements. It is fairly expensive though.
 
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