No 2nd hand opportunity
Building my own speakers is a one of my best experiences in this world
The first pair of speakers I've built do not exist, the woofers crashed the 20+ years old veneered chipboard baffle. I built a new one using mdf and they are up again. DIY is a way of life and I like it although there are plenty nice sounding commercial speakers. I always want to build new ones, still working on three designs and a huge line array design, and spent lots of money for measurement, tools, etc.
My only dispointment about DIY is there is no second hand value, but brand names still sell themselves even after 30+ years.
Building my own speakers is a one of my best experiences in this world
The first pair of speakers I've built do not exist, the woofers crashed the 20+ years old veneered chipboard baffle. I built a new one using mdf and they are up again. DIY is a way of life and I like it although there are plenty nice sounding commercial speakers. I always want to build new ones, still working on three designs and a huge line array design, and spent lots of money for measurement, tools, etc.
My only dispointment about DIY is there is no second hand value, but brand names still sell themselves even after 30+ years.
Nik Brewer does incredible speaker box building for A LOW PRICE.
He built these cabinets for me in April, total cost was UNDER $200 SHIPPED!! I finished them, they are NHT VR-3 kits that Jack Hindley was selling, what a steal!!! $600 for a pair (including the build finish) of speakers that sold for $1800 commercially and never looked as good as mine!!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You have to be active online to find the BEST deals, Like $100 drivers going for $30. Like speakers sold for Thousands being sold as kids for hundreds.
Last edited:
Building my own speakers is a one of my best experiences in this world
The first pair of speakers I've built do not exist, the woofers crashed the 20+ years old veneered chipboard baffle. I built a new one using mdf and they are up again. DIY is a way of life and I like it although there are plenty nice sounding commercial speakers. I always want to build new ones, still working on three designs and a huge line array design, and spent lots of money for measurement, tools, etc.
My only dispointment about DIY is there is no second hand value, but brand names still sell themselves even after 30+ years.
Yeah, its hard to sell DIY speakers but just give them to family and friends makes you a hero
We can build speakers that match our tastes, our rooms and maximize them to fit our compromises. I had cabinet requirements once that only DIY solved.
diy vs. commercial
After many years of building diy electronics, it is my position that, on average, DIY is not cheaper than commercial offerings. And, on average, DIY can achieve performance similar to commercial offerings. We tend to use better parts and design to our needs rather than to a mass market.
Electronics seems to me to be simpler than speakers as it require less in the way of test & verify equipment; less tooling and less tweaking.
Sure there are some builders out there who have years of experience, know what drivers match certain types of crossovers and have equipment at the ready to fine tune the designs. In such a case you have to count the time spent learning diy and the diy equipment as an expense and realize that it was actually cheaper to buy those Sonus Faber's.
Sure there are people who luck out and get good parts cheap- drivers and cases and cabinets, but they spent a lot of time online watching out for deals and educating themselves-- time that makes this kind of effort more expensive then just waltzing into the showroom and making a purchase.
When you count the time and investment into equipment I believe that the DIY does not actually save any money. Just my experience (not with speakers).
But, in my experience, given the support of forums like this, you can diy something that is equal to or better than commercial offerings. And its fun and you get something nice for your effort. Better than big box store? Yes Better than low end hifi, yes. Better than midline hifi? Yes. Better than really high end hifi? Not sure, depends on many many factors.
In the comparisons between diy and commercial that I have been involved with the really high end products (BAT amps for example) were better than the DIY efforts. But not better by much and not as neat as having your own creation.
If the implication of this thread is that you will save money on diy, I do not believe that to be my experience. I would not recommend to someone short on money who needs speakers or an amp to start down the diy path in order to get a set cheaply (ok, maybe an easy kit at most). It is time consuming and once you start the expenses keep piling up. But diy is certainly rewarding and the end results can be fantastic.
After many years of building diy electronics, it is my position that, on average, DIY is not cheaper than commercial offerings. And, on average, DIY can achieve performance similar to commercial offerings. We tend to use better parts and design to our needs rather than to a mass market.
Electronics seems to me to be simpler than speakers as it require less in the way of test & verify equipment; less tooling and less tweaking.
Sure there are some builders out there who have years of experience, know what drivers match certain types of crossovers and have equipment at the ready to fine tune the designs. In such a case you have to count the time spent learning diy and the diy equipment as an expense and realize that it was actually cheaper to buy those Sonus Faber's.
Sure there are people who luck out and get good parts cheap- drivers and cases and cabinets, but they spent a lot of time online watching out for deals and educating themselves-- time that makes this kind of effort more expensive then just waltzing into the showroom and making a purchase.
When you count the time and investment into equipment I believe that the DIY does not actually save any money. Just my experience (not with speakers).
But, in my experience, given the support of forums like this, you can diy something that is equal to or better than commercial offerings. And its fun and you get something nice for your effort. Better than big box store? Yes Better than low end hifi, yes. Better than midline hifi? Yes. Better than really high end hifi? Not sure, depends on many many factors.
In the comparisons between diy and commercial that I have been involved with the really high end products (BAT amps for example) were better than the DIY efforts. But not better by much and not as neat as having your own creation.
If the implication of this thread is that you will save money on diy, I do not believe that to be my experience. I would not recommend to someone short on money who needs speakers or an amp to start down the diy path in order to get a set cheaply (ok, maybe an easy kit at most). It is time consuming and once you start the expenses keep piling up. But diy is certainly rewarding and the end results can be fantastic.
I want to learn more, I have never found any high effeciency designs that didnt require a crossover.
Any links?
If time = $$$ then obviously DIY can be expensive.
Time does not always = $$$ for some people. I always have a couple of hobbies (golfing is one forever), DIY is one of them from home automation to speakers, there are just some things that I have that can not be purchased comercially for even 5-10 times the cost. I have an IB array sub system that cost $1500 and about 3 days to install, easiest build ever and it matches having about 6 to 8 SVS PB13 subs. I have a full house audio/video distribution system that would cost $100K if purchased (think Crestron and K-scape). My cost is around $10K. Heck, I built my current house at cost using a builder friend to get all the contractors. No $200K to a builder
Saved money there too.I can not say $$$ is time for hobbies because if I cared about it being $$ I would just work on more projects for my business and bill for the $$$. I have unlimited work out there and I can make as much as a choose too (limit is the hours in a week and family)....amazingly after 15 years in the business I find free time doing things I love for ZERO dollar more exciting and more fulfilling then filling my week with 80-100hrs of work.
Last edited:
Thanks for the extremely vague answer, if you choose not to be helpful just say so
I will google Sachiko. (#1 google answer, its a sushi bar
)
Still have to pay for someone else who put his effort and time by projecting it.
Is it funnier jockeying with electrons or with air ? Again , the time spent on studies and experience gained by doctors in electronics I think is much more than a -probably newbie hifi enthusiast - loudspeaker designer. If you're talking about"scientists" vs "phenomenalists" , the one needs the other.
Found it
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/102730-sachiko-dual-horn-cabinets-anyone-tried-them-4.html
Thanks Planet10, I like the design. I will put in on the books for my next project. I will find where to source that driver too!! I wonder if it will do 115dB though?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/102730-sachiko-dual-horn-cabinets-anyone-tried-them-4.html
Thanks Planet10, I like the design. I will put in on the books for my next project. I will find where to source that driver too!! I wonder if it will do 115dB though?
Last edited:
gone for a day...
and three pages get added.
As P10 points out for commercially available cross-over-less designs (or minimal crossovers) Sachiko . various from Omega loudspeakers, (perhaps the Horne Shoppe), Decware, Zu , SoloVox (Auditorium23 from Tone Imports), Beauhorns....
and the list goes on and on...
hope that heps...
and three pages get added.
As P10 points out for commercially available cross-over-less designs (or minimal crossovers) Sachiko . various from Omega loudspeakers, (perhaps the Horne Shoppe), Decware, Zu , SoloVox (Auditorium23 from Tone Imports), Beauhorns....
and the list goes on and on...
hope that heps...
Madisound.
I sell a heavily modified version.
I'll wait outside when you attempt to get 115 dB out of it.
dave
hehe, no problem.
Effeciency to me usually comes with dynamics so I will pass on those, My space and needs are much larger.
hehe, no problem.
Effeciency to me usually comes with dynamics so I will pass on those, My space and needs are much larger.
Ohhhhh No.... there goes Tokyo..... Basszilla!!
Just an option to consider.
Absolutely, for others that do not care about polar response and dynamics!
I always wanted 7 foot speakers that I have to sit 3 feet in front off
For those of you who have built DIY loudspeakers - how do you actually KNOW your design sounds better than a similarly-priced commercial product? Obviously, anything that you just spent the 50+ hours of your life working on is going to sound spectacular to you. It's only when you compare it side-by-side with another speaker (DIY or otherwise) that you really know.
Judging from the lack of responses that actually answer the original question (see thread title), I'm under the impression that few people have actually compared their DIY design side-by-side with a good commercial product. Perhaps DIYers are worried their design won't sound as good...or perhaps they don't want to know if their design sounds better or worse because they'd just rather not know?
Judging from the lack of responses that actually answer the original question (see thread title), I'm under the impression that few people have actually compared their DIY design side-by-side with a good commercial product. Perhaps DIYers are worried their design won't sound as good...or perhaps they don't want to know if their design sounds better or worse because they'd just rather not know?
You should ask that question on a DIY forum like HTGuide.com.
99% of the the threads there are actually build threads compared to about 10% here Lots of theory type discussion here though and lots of education exists.
btw, there was a great link somewhere talking about preception and obviously when we DIY there is great passion and ownership in what we have done and no doubt that BIAS goes into our conclusions. I always just stick to the measurements to determine the actually quality of a product since subjective listening....is well JUST subjective.
I for one have tested enough similar products like Salk HTS vs my Ribbon DIY designs or AV123 ELT525s vs my RB Kits or QSC HPR-122 vs my DIY Clone too know what I like.
I have to ask, do you have a build in mind? Have you built speakers?
99% of the the threads there are actually build threads compared to about 10% here
Lots of theory type discussion here though and lots of education exists.btw, there was a great link somewhere talking about preception and obviously when we DIY there is great passion and ownership in what we have done and no doubt that BIAS goes into our conclusions. I always just stick to the measurements to determine the actually quality of a product since subjective listening....is well JUST subjective.
I for one have tested enough similar products like Salk HTS vs my Ribbon DIY designs or AV123 ELT525s vs my RB Kits or QSC HPR-122 vs my DIY Clone too know what I like.
I have to ask, do you have a build in mind? Have you built speakers?
Last edited:
I'm pretty sure most have, but just to give you something to quiet the nerves...
I built a pair of proac 2.5 clones using top of the line crossover parts (goertz, clarity caps), nice enclosures, and scan speak drivers. The crossover is actually improved over the original (notch filter), and set me back less than a grand. To buy these speakers new, with nowhere near as good of crossover components? $4,500.
Comparing them to my pair of klipsch kg3.5s.... not even in the same ballpark. The proac clones blow them away until you start getting really loud. When the volume gets uncomfortable, the proacs distort badly (deep bass from a smallish woofer), while the Klipsch stay cleaner, longer.
$4,500 versus $1,000. Seems like simple math to me.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.