Do not worry, Carlos.My previous reply was short because i had to go to work.
I fear that as the amplifier changes and/or progresses, it will slowly move to Instant Coffee.
It is my opinion that this amplifier should remain an amplifier for people who do not like instant coffee, who are willing to try things and will try to learn for themselves, instead of simply soldering the parts in the right place and hook up some wires.
And it's hard to make Klaas Vaak try things, since he's sometimes sleepy Nordic
Go ahead and build it, it will not dissappoint you.
In sonics it can compete with excellent amplifiers.
It will never be perfect to me, my ears are both my blessing and my burden.
Even if i would be angry or sad Carlos, how could i remain this way looking at the beautyfull smile of your daughter
Now let us move forward please.
greetings ,
Klaas
I fear that as the amplifier changes and/or progresses, it will slowly move to Instant Coffee.
It is my opinion that this amplifier should remain an amplifier for people who do not like instant coffee, who are willing to try things and will try to learn for themselves, instead of simply soldering the parts in the right place and hook up some wires.
And it's hard to make Klaas Vaak try things, since he's sometimes sleepy Nordic
Go ahead and build it, it will not dissappoint you.
In sonics it can compete with excellent amplifiers.
It will never be perfect to me, my ears are both my blessing and my burden.
Even if i would be angry or sad Carlos, how could i remain this way looking at the beautyfull smile of your daughter
Now let us move forward please.
greetings ,
Klaas
Yes...let's move ahead...we will have Nordic happy in a matter of days.
And my daugther smile use to turn me happy too.
She is magic...very charming in the reality.
I am afraid the building boys will try to stole my dear daugther..they are daily in my front door asking for her.
Grumpf!....grrrrr!.
hehe
Carlos
And my daugther smile use to turn me happy too.
She is magic...very charming in the reality.
I am afraid the building boys will try to stole my dear daugther..they are daily in my front door asking for her.
Grumpf!....grrrrr!.
hehe
Carlos
Carlos, i will not kill your amplifier softly, it is too good for that.
I will not introduce more changes, i will design a pcb for it using my recent experiences, and will build it as-is.
My nature and my bleeding ears also demand to investigate other topologies, as a builder of over 3500 amplifiers i hope you understand.
If this sounds like goodbye, i don't mean it that way.
I will keep you updated of course.
Nordic,aargh ! I know how you feel, i once designed a pcb for an amplifier, after etching i found out every transistor-pinout was wrong ! I managed to get it working, but it sure ended up looking funny with all those cross-legged transistors
With kind regards,
Klaas
I will not introduce more changes, i will design a pcb for it using my recent experiences, and will build it as-is.
My nature and my bleeding ears also demand to investigate other topologies, as a builder of over 3500 amplifiers i hope you understand.
If this sounds like goodbye, i don't mean it that way.
I will keep you updated of course.
Nordic,aargh ! I know how you feel, i once designed a pcb for an amplifier, after etching i found out every transistor-pinout was wrong ! I managed to get it working, but it sure ended up looking funny with all those cross-legged transistors
With kind regards,
Klaas
I don't mind doing that, but not to this amp...!
I suppose I should get the photoresist out, and get back on the horse...
Will also allow me to star a few more of the ground returns, and maybe make a star on the psu side rather than the plane...
Sadly the board came out just like I wanted to, which was just wrong, I misinterpreted the original layout... and copied the way I understood it... SIGH... good thing computers! Allowed me to see my error without leaving my chair.
I suppose I should get the photoresist out, and get back on the horse...
Will also allow me to star a few more of the ground returns, and maybe make a star on the psu side rather than the plane...
Sadly the board came out just like I wanted to, which was just wrong, I misinterpreted the original layout... and copied the way I understood it... SIGH... good thing computers! Allowed me to see my error without leaving my chair.
Join the club Nordic...i use to do those things too
Will produce more work, and some frustration..but nothing was burned...and i use to invert wires and send board to hell, and this is terrible...you had not too big problem.
Let's go ahead...as CarlosFM from chip foruns use to say.
C'a Marche!
regards,
Carlos
Will produce more work, and some frustration..but nothing was burned...and i use to invert wires and send board to hell, and this is terrible...you had not too big problem.
Let's go ahead...as CarlosFM from chip foruns use to say.
C'a Marche!
regards,
Carlos
I love contributions, help, cooperations and the whole good will things.
But i want that people who create new boards...that they construct and test their boards...to avoid surprises...problems, oscilations, defects, failures, missing connections, capacitances, unstabilities.... if they do not construct, they will be creating work to me.
Also i want that people, that come to create boards, that they construct their boards and provide us with the new schematic (if this exist) and provide us with the art related the ideas they have.
In other words, that people do the job needed, having responsability related his work, his modification, his idea....keeping a "made by......" in this same thread...or opening another one.
Problem is when cooperators give us schematic...RAJ did...but did not constructed. i think...i have no informs about his construction....now i am afraid of possible oscilations...missing parts...also he included snubbers and gave not the schematic..we have to conclude observing the job done by him....so...mission not completed..i am with concerns about...was published in the thead i have opened and i will be responsable related the board...when the real responsable must be the board designer.
Klass made modifications..very small i think...but changed the ground idea.... to better one i think...now...a good idea is to provide us the art and to construct and check the board (i think he did that)...so...Klass is invited to complete his work if not completed yet.
I will keep the standard schematic, the standard Greg board and the standard art ....others welcome contributions must come together the total responsability to answer constructors needed informations about.
Say..publishing.....By RAJ dx amplifier....or By Klass.
All those things i feel as good...will turn thread more and more rich, with many possibilities that will match many folks needs..this is good, in special when made to make the amplifier sounds even better.
Those ones, that are helping now a days, are educated and good folks...i hope the new ones did not came telling that the amplifier is bad, defective and that they made better.....well...they can make better...but, please, open another thread if intend to be bad educated with big fat charlie.... i am happy that those bricks did not came yet.
I can enter every thread, if i decide to be bad, saying that the amplifier is a ship....and suggest modifications that will make it better (to my ears!)...to my own subjective point of view...this can be done, but not fair...to climb in another folk's shoulder to paint myself blue!....
The fair behavior is to accept the entire responsability, and to produce the entire needed job....posting new schematic, new arts for boards, constructing and testing, publishing pictures and holding the responsability about their product...inside some thread, or opening another, exclusive or sharing thread, for themselves.... tracking the thread constantly, as people may need his own informs about something...as they will work as sub thread inside the same thread..a sharing thread around the same main circuit (topologie)
I am not telling that dear klaas was not responsable ..or that he failed....i am saying that i agree with modifications beeing done for good...bringing advantage to forum folks...just that he may finish the work he started.... producing and testing his new board.
Also Dear RAJ, could cooperate constructing the board he suggested, as Nordic is doing it for him...and problems may happen...as boards can produce surprises......Will be excelent to have posting images that will make the forum thread much more interesting...also giving his valuable presence...as i have received his files by mail.... i thank him for that and i am asking much more.
Standard Dx amplifier, original board arts will be made by Greg Erskine...very close friend, that have same ideas i have about a lot of subjects....a mate....a partner in this amplifier....unfortunatelly Aussie Internet providers are having problems and messages he sent me were lost.
Also Sparkle had cooperated too..he produced one of the first good schematics posted.
Everyone is invited to make it better...not saying that amplifier is bad..it is not bad!..but saying that can make it even better...come to us..will be good to have your contribution...but do the whole job...."put seeds on the ground...clean the place, make the land adequated to this plantation, use the chemical you need, make the land good and strong for that plant growth, give it water and care..wait it to grow...clean plantation and colect everything when ready....separate and select your product, make packages and sell your product!"
regards,
Carlos
But i want that people who create new boards...that they construct and test their boards...to avoid surprises...problems, oscilations, defects, failures, missing connections, capacitances, unstabilities.... if they do not construct, they will be creating work to me.
Also i want that people, that come to create boards, that they construct their boards and provide us with the new schematic (if this exist) and provide us with the art related the ideas they have.
In other words, that people do the job needed, having responsability related his work, his modification, his idea....keeping a "made by......" in this same thread...or opening another one.
Problem is when cooperators give us schematic...RAJ did...but did not constructed. i think...i have no informs about his construction....now i am afraid of possible oscilations...missing parts...also he included snubbers and gave not the schematic..we have to conclude observing the job done by him....so...mission not completed..i am with concerns about...was published in the thead i have opened and i will be responsable related the board...when the real responsable must be the board designer.
Klass made modifications..very small i think...but changed the ground idea.... to better one i think...now...a good idea is to provide us the art and to construct and check the board (i think he did that)...so...Klass is invited to complete his work if not completed yet.
I will keep the standard schematic, the standard Greg board and the standard art ....others welcome contributions must come together the total responsability to answer constructors needed informations about.
Say..publishing.....By RAJ dx amplifier....or By Klass.
All those things i feel as good...will turn thread more and more rich, with many possibilities that will match many folks needs..this is good, in special when made to make the amplifier sounds even better.
Those ones, that are helping now a days, are educated and good folks...i hope the new ones did not came telling that the amplifier is bad, defective and that they made better.....well...they can make better...but, please, open another thread if intend to be bad educated with big fat charlie.... i am happy that those bricks did not came yet.
I can enter every thread, if i decide to be bad, saying that the amplifier is a ship....and suggest modifications that will make it better (to my ears!)...to my own subjective point of view...this can be done, but not fair...to climb in another folk's shoulder to paint myself blue!....
The fair behavior is to accept the entire responsability, and to produce the entire needed job....posting new schematic, new arts for boards, constructing and testing, publishing pictures and holding the responsability about their product...inside some thread, or opening another, exclusive or sharing thread, for themselves.... tracking the thread constantly, as people may need his own informs about something...as they will work as sub thread inside the same thread..a sharing thread around the same main circuit (topologie)
I am not telling that dear klaas was not responsable ..or that he failed....i am saying that i agree with modifications beeing done for good...bringing advantage to forum folks...just that he may finish the work he started.... producing and testing his new board.
Also Dear RAJ, could cooperate constructing the board he suggested, as Nordic is doing it for him...and problems may happen...as boards can produce surprises......Will be excelent to have posting images that will make the forum thread much more interesting...also giving his valuable presence...as i have received his files by mail.... i thank him for that and i am asking much more.
Standard Dx amplifier, original board arts will be made by Greg Erskine...very close friend, that have same ideas i have about a lot of subjects....a mate....a partner in this amplifier....unfortunatelly Aussie Internet providers are having problems and messages he sent me were lost.
Also Sparkle had cooperated too..he produced one of the first good schematics posted.
Everyone is invited to make it better...not saying that amplifier is bad..it is not bad!..but saying that can make it even better...come to us..will be good to have your contribution...but do the whole job...."put seeds on the ground...clean the place, make the land adequated to this plantation, use the chemical you need, make the land good and strong for that plant growth, give it water and care..wait it to grow...clean plantation and colect everything when ready....separate and select your product, make packages and sell your product!"
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
Re: hehe... the way i have imagined..slowly Dx amplifier go loosing it's own character,
I completely agree with the "perfect Aksa 55". My 55N+ has taken on all other amps I've tried and is still the best IMO.... very special qualities and music making. Still takes pride of place in my main system and will probably never leave.
Looking foward to trying a DX (Greg's going to sends some boards to try).
Go Carlos go.... you're on a roll.
destroyer X said:
I completely agree with the "perfect Aksa 55". My 55N+ has taken on all other amps I've tried and is still the best IMO.... very special qualities and music making. Still takes pride of place in my main system and will probably never leave.
Looking foward to trying a DX (Greg's going to sends some boards to try).
Go Carlos go.... you're on a roll.
Yes Rabbitz.... thanks...this amplifier was the best i could make
"Not invading Hugh Deans...Aspen amplifier subcircuits and values applied"
For sure my amplifier cannot beat Aksa55....maybe it can..but only related bass.
That magic, romantic sound....only having those Nirvana 55 .
I have to control myself...not to use those circuits that made Aksa sonics so good.
Well...mine amplifier is cheap, simple and very good...if people wants something better..... i suggest that they may go to Aksa.
The ones that will have the chance to listen my one...will have an idea about what i am talking ...mine will be good or excelent for them for sure...so, they will be able to imagine Aksa sonics...that is much better.
"Dx amplifier...the nearest option you have, to figure out how Aksa can be good"
regards,
Carlos
"Not invading Hugh Deans...Aspen amplifier subcircuits and values applied"
For sure my amplifier cannot beat Aksa55....maybe it can..but only related bass.
That magic, romantic sound....only having those Nirvana 55 .
I have to control myself...not to use those circuits that made Aksa sonics so good.
Well...mine amplifier is cheap, simple and very good...if people wants something better..... i suggest that they may go to Aksa.
The ones that will have the chance to listen my one...will have an idea about what i am talking ...mine will be good or excelent for them for sure...so, they will be able to imagine Aksa sonics...that is much better.
"Dx amplifier...the nearest option you have, to figure out how Aksa can be good"
regards,
Carlos
I think I've got a fair idea how the DX is going to sound and am making room for it in a nice little intimate system. It will be partnered with the solid state section of Hugh's GK-1 pre which will add a bit of that AKSA flavour.
Mine will only be a low powered version running 25V rails so I can have better low impedance driving capabilites and use an existing 300VA 18-0-18 transformer. Will probably never go over 10W.
Mine will only be a low powered version running 25V rails so I can have better low impedance driving capabilites and use an existing 300VA 18-0-18 transformer. Will probably never go over 10W.
Hi Carlie, I think the Raj boards will work just fine... it is duplicate of your schematic, only changes is in the PSU section... were all I can see added was a little better filtering and snubber (optional), and the 10R on In-.
I thought about takeing the fuses offboard, which means you got nice DC magets sticking out all the way to your case....
In my book AC fuses, no problem taken offboard, DC fuses, are danceing with wolves. On the other hand I guess DC is going to take out a fuse much more reliably than AC....
Also, it seems quite easy to cut ground traces and make a star useing some wire and a sharp knife....
I thought about takeing the fuses offboard, which means you got nice DC magets sticking out all the way to your case....
In my book AC fuses, no problem taken offboard, DC fuses, are danceing with wolves. On the other hand I guess DC is going to take out a fuse much more reliably than AC....
Also, it seems quite easy to cut ground traces and make a star useing some wire and a sharp knife....
I do think too that will work fine...also RAJ told that
But...... surprises can sometimes happens.
There's less than a milion to 1, the chances that a shark bite a children kidding 15 inches deep watter...happened this week...here!
I have never dream that someone could be so crazy and fanatic to kill himself and to crash an airplane against a building...happened.
I also could never imagine that Brazil could have this very low inflation..we are having low inflation (compared old bad times)
Well dear Nordic....you are testing those boards, and i thank you for that, also i think you deserve RAJ thanks too.
A board is a board and not more than a board...no magic there..only human errors can appear there....if they do not appear, board will be not more than a board...will be silent as
ever.
Dance with wolves...nice movie.
I cannot wait to see your progress.
Triple check my dear....never fear...having triple check and me near.
regards,
Carlos
But...... surprises can sometimes happens.
There's less than a milion to 1, the chances that a shark bite a children kidding 15 inches deep watter...happened this week...here!
I have never dream that someone could be so crazy and fanatic to kill himself and to crash an airplane against a building...happened.
I also could never imagine that Brazil could have this very low inflation..we are having low inflation (compared old bad times)
Well dear Nordic....you are testing those boards, and i thank you for that, also i think you deserve RAJ thanks too.
A board is a board and not more than a board...no magic there..only human errors can appear there....if they do not appear, board will be not more than a board...will be silent as
ever.
Dance with wolves...nice movie.
I cannot wait to see your progress.
Triple check my dear....never fear...having triple check and me near.
regards,
Carlos
re. burning amp
Hi,
I'm building a new version of DX amp using 2sc2922 and 2sa1216 and the amp distort a lot, and get quite hot even with low bias level. It must be up to some oscillations. In fact, it costs 2 pair of C2922 which is very painful. Can you help me out with this. It's OK with 2sc5200 now. I think it must be the VAS capacitor but can not figure out the good value.
Hi,
I'm building a new version of DX amp using 2sc2922 and 2sa1216 and the amp distort a lot, and get quite hot even with low bias level. It must be up to some oscillations. In fact, it costs 2 pair of C2922 which is very painful. Can you help me out with this. It's OK with 2sc5200 now. I think it must be the VAS capacitor but can not figure out the good value.
There's a pitty those nice transistors beeing lost.
Try 27 picofarads for the Miller (C14) and try 22 picofarads(C9) for the feedback one.
Include 22 capacitors from base to colector into your drivers....and give a triple check on your circuit, as i made many units and this amplifier do not like to oscilate.
Attach good resolution pictures from your amplifier...macro pictures with details...this way i will be able to help you to find mistakes.
Have you measured that AC voltage at your output?
What is your offset?
Please, tell us the transistors you are using.
Is this the schematic of your amplifier (attached)
I will be happy to see this amplifier...please, good pictures as i have problems to believe this unit is oscilating...as i have tried to force it to oscilate and i could not....even using fingers from input to output... a very stable amplifier...you may have construction error.
Please, give a check into your output transistor leads, and if you have NPNs at the positive rails and PNPs at the negative rail..for sure you will find an error..this amplifier do not oscilate..unless you connect the output into the input with a resistance or with a capacitor.
regards,
Carlos
Try 27 picofarads for the Miller (C14) and try 22 picofarads(C9) for the feedback one.
Include 22 capacitors from base to colector into your drivers....and give a triple check on your circuit, as i made many units and this amplifier do not like to oscilate.
Attach good resolution pictures from your amplifier...macro pictures with details...this way i will be able to help you to find mistakes.
Have you measured that AC voltage at your output?
What is your offset?
Please, tell us the transistors you are using.
Is this the schematic of your amplifier (attached)
I will be happy to see this amplifier...please, good pictures as i have problems to believe this unit is oscilating...as i have tried to force it to oscilate and i could not....even using fingers from input to output... a very stable amplifier...you may have construction error.
Please, give a check into your output transistor leads, and if you have NPNs at the positive rails and PNPs at the negative rail..for sure you will find an error..this amplifier do not oscilate..unless you connect the output into the input with a resistance or with a capacitor.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
re. Amp reconstruction
Thanks a lot for your instance response. I will sort this out with your precious advices.
I think I figure it out now. I've found a fail transistor in my circuit. It fails but turn out to be OK. I've break it to pieces to take revenge for my nice power trans
Again, I appreciate your help.
Thanks a lot for your instance response. I will sort this out with your precious advices.
I think I figure it out now. I've found a fail transistor in my circuit. It fails but turn out to be OK. I've break it to pieces to take revenge for my nice power trans
Again, I appreciate your help.
I hate that damaged transistor that burned your outputs
Those Sanken devices are really a tragic and enormous lost..as they are extremelly good...but can be destroyed if we connect too high voltage from base to emitter... small shorts we can make with our testing probes..from base to colector can send them to hell.
When i lost those Sankens i turn myself very sad...and this goes for more than an hour...as i know how good they are, and how expensive and difficult to find here.
I am still very curious to see your construction...can you please, produce images and attach them here?
1000 by 1000 pixels are accepted...maximum of 100K of data size is accepted..and many image codes are acepted too...you can see them down the page...near the attach file button.
If you have problems to resize, reduce or anything about images..you can send them to my mail adress and i will post them in your place, gladly.
nanabrother@yahoo.com
regards,
Carlos
Those Sanken devices are really a tragic and enormous lost..as they are extremelly good...but can be destroyed if we connect too high voltage from base to emitter... small shorts we can make with our testing probes..from base to colector can send them to hell.
When i lost those Sankens i turn myself very sad...and this goes for more than an hour...as i know how good they are, and how expensive and difficult to find here.
I am still very curious to see your construction...can you please, produce images and attach them here?
1000 by 1000 pixels are accepted...maximum of 100K of data size is accepted..and many image codes are acepted too...you can see them down the page...near the attach file button.
If you have problems to resize, reduce or anything about images..you can send them to my mail adress and i will post them in your place, gladly.
nanabrother@yahoo.com
regards,
Carlos
Dear Klaas, do not be sad because i am trying to organize this thread .
Also will be an enormous waste of time to turn angry with me.
I will still love you and respect you....were are you dear Klaas?
We need you here Klaas...i need you here Klaas...my daugther is asking your presence klaas.
Please, send a photo to my daugther...she likes you and she is following our thread....our Klaas....have you perceived man?...our!
Chinese people....people that have a milenium culture...use to say that we are responsable related the friends we have..we cannot leave them as a result of misunderstandings.
regards,
Carlos
Also will be an enormous waste of time to turn angry with me.
I will still love you and respect you....were are you dear Klaas?
We need you here Klaas...i need you here Klaas...my daugther is asking your presence klaas.
Please, send a photo to my daugther...she likes you and she is following our thread....our Klaas....have you perceived man?...our!
Chinese people....people that have a milenium culture...use to say that we are responsable related the friends we have..we cannot leave them as a result of misunderstandings.
regards,
Carlos
Re: Yes...10 to 13 watts over 8 ohms...and near 25 over 4
I thought 25VDC rails would give 30W 8R and 60W 4R as shown in post #551 for Nordic's low power option. Just a bit confused.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1168386#post1168386
destroyer X said:
I thought 25VDC rails would give 30W 8R and 60W 4R as shown in post #551 for Nordic's low power option. Just a bit confused.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1168386#post1168386
Carlos, i am here. I'm not angry or sad, i thought this was clear.
I am glad to be here, trying to offer my help.
Nordic, you may already know this, but trick i use for lifting pcb-traces is cutting through them with sharp knife.
The piece i want to lift i then heat using HOT soldering-iron, i adjust to ~400 degrees celsius, peeling away with the sharp knife. I move fast not to scorch the pcb. When done correctly you can hardly see the trace was there.
I kept the ground-wires away from pcb to reduce risk of parasitic coupling. I dont know if this is an issue but i like to avoid possible problems.
At first start-up, it is safer to have rail-fuses in original place Nordic, after the caps.
Rail-fuse burns almost instantly in case of trouble, but when you have them in front of the ps-caps the caps still have to discharge.
There is a lot of energy in those caps, this could be enough to fry something.
PhongVuTuan, what devices are you using for vas/drivers ?
As Carlos already mentioned, base to collector capacitor on drivers should kill any hint of oscillation, when using bad ones or fakes.
We need a picture, even webcam or phone-pic can be good !
Picture tells us more than thousand words.
Using a series-lightbulb or variac at first startup when testing a new circuit or modifications will save you bags of semiconductors in the long run.
Carlos, as you have said earlier, life is interesting and exciting when among friends
With kind regards,
Klaas
I am glad to be here, trying to offer my help.
Nordic, you may already know this, but trick i use for lifting pcb-traces is cutting through them with sharp knife.
The piece i want to lift i then heat using HOT soldering-iron, i adjust to ~400 degrees celsius, peeling away with the sharp knife. I move fast not to scorch the pcb. When done correctly you can hardly see the trace was there.
I kept the ground-wires away from pcb to reduce risk of parasitic coupling. I dont know if this is an issue but i like to avoid possible problems.
At first start-up, it is safer to have rail-fuses in original place Nordic, after the caps.
Rail-fuse burns almost instantly in case of trouble, but when you have them in front of the ps-caps the caps still have to discharge.
There is a lot of energy in those caps, this could be enough to fry something.
PhongVuTuan, what devices are you using for vas/drivers ?
As Carlos already mentioned, base to collector capacitor on drivers should kill any hint of oscillation, when using bad ones or fakes.
We need a picture, even webcam or phone-pic can be good !
Picture tells us more than thousand words.
Using a series-lightbulb or variac at first startup when testing a new circuit or modifications will save you bags of semiconductors in the long run.
Carlos, as you have said earlier, life is interesting and exciting when among friends
With kind regards,
Klaas
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