http://sound.westhost.com/project15.htm
For those needing a bit of a readup on the capacitance multiplier, please follow this link.
For those needing a bit of a readup on the capacitance multiplier, please follow this link.
Mr Andrew T use to provocate me, or challenge me if you prefer
Not breaking forum rules, he is always sending some strange messages that have criticisms about my behavior, doubts about my behavior, beeing not kind, not gentle.
Once i have asked him not to come to my threads if he do not like to read my ideas..if disagree, if he thinks not good enogth.
He was very arrogant, said that just cannot avoid to read those things....of course "things" as foolishes.
I cannot dennie he is clever and very good into electronics, but very arrogant, very annoying related me.
I will ask, please, to be educated with him, not to break any forum rules,but not to atract him to stay, as he is very annoying to me.
I have complained about that to the forum management...i had not good result..point to Andrew once again..he do not break any forum rules, so, goes bothering me softly.... moderator group do not read subtle things.... you have to say a bad word very clear or post your grandmother nude to see them move!
I already told this to them.
Graham was bothered by that TLF9999...the result of that was he abandoned the forum for almost a year..or something alike that.... now a days, he do not hold any thread, do not cooperates with forum anymore, he use to cooperate with me, because he had passed problems and moderators behaved the same way.
Subtle things are not perceived..so..people can go bothering calling you son of a bleach...as bleach has nothing wrong.... so..the idea is not to use the brain, only to read things by literally meaning expressions.
It is very clear that we do not like one each other..the difference is that i use to let him in peace, and he is usually provocating...i do not go to his prefered threads (ahahaha..all them), but he use to come into the thread i use to open.
If we were living into the same town will be easy to find solution to that..but distant this way, inside our virtual world, i have to ask moderators, and have to ask my friends not to invite him to be near, as he is annoying to me.... from time to time he spell some annoying message related my person..and friends use to come to tell me he is provocating once more.
You see that i use to be kind with almost everybody...but this one is hard to accept...sorry for that.
regards,
Carlos
Not breaking forum rules, he is always sending some strange messages that have criticisms about my behavior, doubts about my behavior, beeing not kind, not gentle.
Once i have asked him not to come to my threads if he do not like to read my ideas..if disagree, if he thinks not good enogth.
He was very arrogant, said that just cannot avoid to read those things....of course "things" as foolishes.
I cannot dennie he is clever and very good into electronics, but very arrogant, very annoying related me.
I will ask, please, to be educated with him, not to break any forum rules,but not to atract him to stay, as he is very annoying to me.
I have complained about that to the forum management...i had not good result..point to Andrew once again..he do not break any forum rules, so, goes bothering me softly.... moderator group do not read subtle things.... you have to say a bad word very clear or post your grandmother nude to see them move!
I already told this to them.
Graham was bothered by that TLF9999...the result of that was he abandoned the forum for almost a year..or something alike that.... now a days, he do not hold any thread, do not cooperates with forum anymore, he use to cooperate with me, because he had passed problems and moderators behaved the same way.
Subtle things are not perceived..so..people can go bothering calling you son of a bleach...as bleach has nothing wrong.... so..the idea is not to use the brain, only to read things by literally meaning expressions.
It is very clear that we do not like one each other..the difference is that i use to let him in peace, and he is usually provocating...i do not go to his prefered threads (ahahaha..all them), but he use to come into the thread i use to open.
If we were living into the same town will be easy to find solution to that..but distant this way, inside our virtual world, i have to ask moderators, and have to ask my friends not to invite him to be near, as he is annoying to me.... from time to time he spell some annoying message related my person..and friends use to come to tell me he is provocating once more.
You see that i use to be kind with almost everybody...but this one is hard to accept...sorry for that.
regards,
Carlos
AndrewT said:
A common fault in many PCB layouts is the tapping off of the output from an unsuitable location on the output trace.ecat said:
In the earliest Nordic layout the tapping came off the side of the output common trace between the emitter resistors and after the speaker connection and the Zobel connection.
I think the best place for the tapping is after the common trace between the emitters (or emitter resistors if fitted) and the Zobel. The speaker should come off the trace just a little beyond the Zobel tapping point.
If the order of these connections is swapped, the voltages generated between these tapping does influence the signal that is sent back to the NFB node. If the NFB node is being sent the wrong information then the correction that it applies is also wrong. i.e extra distortion, that is avoidable.
Creating a T shape as in the later Nordic PCBs with the emitters across the top of the Tee and all the other connections on the leg of the Tee, in the correct order, eliminates most/all of the problem.
I suppose the only remaining part of the problem is determining the correct order and optimum distance/resistance of the tapping gaps.
I wonder what influence the bootstrap current has on the NFB signal? Should the bootstrap tapping come off between the common leg and before the NFB tapping?
My dear friend Klaas sent me Cyrus boards..and he decided to send me
two power Sankens....nice units...a pitty those things happens here.
Yes...i am very damned with this third world behavior of brazilian customs.
they blocked.... detected because heavy....perceived a transistor inside and said it is an "imported god that need taxation"...ahahahaha..imagine that?
They invited me to go to the Central Customs of Federal Police, as they may have nothing better to do, as to search for drugs for instance...they want the invoice...documents about that "extremelly important" importation...huge entrance of expensive 2 dollares transistors.
They want me to pay 50 dollares...ahahahahha..and i will have to cross the town.... 42 kilometers going and 42 kilometers returning of fuel, to pay 50 bucks, to colect board and two transistors... and this after hard bureaucratic work facing those custom's idiots.
Grumpf!....grrrrr!
Sorry dear Klaas... i will abandone those boards there...if i enter there i will be arrested because for sure i will tell them things they will not apreciate to listen.
regards,
Carlos
two power Sankens....nice units...a pitty those things happens here.
Yes...i am very damned with this third world behavior of brazilian customs.
they blocked.... detected because heavy....perceived a transistor inside and said it is an "imported god that need taxation"...ahahahaha..imagine that?
They invited me to go to the Central Customs of Federal Police, as they may have nothing better to do, as to search for drugs for instance...they want the invoice...documents about that "extremelly important" importation...huge entrance of expensive 2 dollares transistors.
They want me to pay 50 dollares...ahahahahha..and i will have to cross the town.... 42 kilometers going and 42 kilometers returning of fuel, to pay 50 bucks, to colect board and two transistors... and this after hard bureaucratic work facing those custom's idiots.
Grumpf!....grrrrr!
Sorry dear Klaas... i will abandone those boards there...if i enter there i will be arrested because for sure i will tell them things they will not apreciate to listen.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
Andrew,
Thank you, I learn a little more each day.
Carlos,
I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. 50 dollars import duty, ouch !
Order placed, including parts for a six channel stepped attenuator. This many relays are not cheap so I'll not order the sankens today. The attenuator design is based on the Twisted Pear Joshua Tree, sadly they are out of stock at the moment. In a complete reversal to Carlos' import troubles, ordering the complete kits from the states would have cost less than buying the omron relays locally. Hopefully the NAIS TQ2's will work just as well.
Thank you, I learn a little more each day.
Carlos,
I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. 50 dollars import duty, ouch !
Order placed, including parts for a six channel stepped attenuator. This many relays are not cheap so I'll not order the sankens today. The attenuator design is based on the Twisted Pear Joshua Tree, sadly they are out of stock at the moment. In a complete reversal to Carlos' import troubles, ordering the complete kits from the states would have cost less than buying the omron relays locally. Hopefully the NAIS TQ2's will work just as well.
So strange. i was informed this is included into the law
was not corruption, not someone trying to obtain extra money....i am happy that was not corruption.
But the law is ridiculous..... dimension and weigth are the reasons.
So, 6 units of small rectangular bubble gum, for a children, will be understood, and taxed, as imported gods.
hehe
regards,
Carlos
.....................................................................................................
I am very happy you are going to buy parts and construct dear
Ecat.
I promisse you that you will be very happy with the sonic result.
regards,
Carlos
was not corruption, not someone trying to obtain extra money....i am happy that was not corruption.
But the law is ridiculous..... dimension and weigth are the reasons.
So, 6 units of small rectangular bubble gum, for a children, will be understood, and taxed, as imported gods.
hehe
regards,
Carlos
.....................................................................................................
I am very happy you are going to buy parts and construct dear
Ecat.
I promisse you that you will be very happy with the sonic result.
regards,
Carlos
Hi Nordic,
I too have watched your 'peacock' board develop; its layout is useful.
As well as using high value capacitors to create low impedance '+' and '-' rail 'star's wrt the local pcb ground, in my own design I also made the output node a 'star' in its own right. This to cover the points Andrew has raised; such that current flow along one track cannot create a voltage drop that would voltage modulate another (eg on the NFB error sensing line wrt signal input)
- the sort of thing that simulators cannot normally 'know' about and cannot show causing distortion.
Whether the circa 1k load plus physical presence of the bootstrap components would affect NFB is an oft unconsidered point, thus I use a separate track from the output node to complete the bootstrap circuit to ensure it cannot be a problem.
Another point related to bootstrapped amplifiers is that the NFB node is a potential divider between the capacitor coupled rail resistor and any ripple/noise at that point, in series with NFB generated output impedance, this fractional voltage being developed wrt input and changing with circuit operation.
Where the amplifier has considerable levels of phase coherent NFB, then bootstrap resistor sensed rail ripple is not a problem, but it can actually induce low level hum into the output of low feedback designs like the JLH class-A, which is why capacitance multiplier regulators were recommended for its power rails !
Hi Carlos,
So now you are an 'Importer' too !!!
Looks like your country has joined the illogical - Politically Correct World.
Cheers ............ Graham.
I too have watched your 'peacock' board develop; its layout is useful.
As well as using high value capacitors to create low impedance '+' and '-' rail 'star's wrt the local pcb ground, in my own design I also made the output node a 'star' in its own right. This to cover the points Andrew has raised; such that current flow along one track cannot create a voltage drop that would voltage modulate another (eg on the NFB error sensing line wrt signal input)
- the sort of thing that simulators cannot normally 'know' about and cannot show causing distortion.
Whether the circa 1k load plus physical presence of the bootstrap components would affect NFB is an oft unconsidered point, thus I use a separate track from the output node to complete the bootstrap circuit to ensure it cannot be a problem.
Another point related to bootstrapped amplifiers is that the NFB node is a potential divider between the capacitor coupled rail resistor and any ripple/noise at that point, in series with NFB generated output impedance, this fractional voltage being developed wrt input and changing with circuit operation.
Where the amplifier has considerable levels of phase coherent NFB, then bootstrap resistor sensed rail ripple is not a problem, but it can actually induce low level hum into the output of low feedback designs like the JLH class-A, which is why capacitance multiplier regulators were recommended for its power rails !
Hi Carlos,
So now you are an 'Importer' too !!!
Looks like your country has joined the illogical - Politically Correct World.
Cheers ............ Graham.
Sounds like I did well, but realy, it was Ecat, who did the initial layout... I just played around with it... copying ideas I saw elsewhere over time...
The trace orders were also pure coincidence...
Andrew thanks for the kind words... and don't worry I "get" you. And understand your communication style/ online personality by now... It is hard to tell somebody they are doing something wrong, when they might expect you to show them the right way... but it is easy to give them acknowledgement when they do something right, so they can take note and remember...
It still sounds asif between Graham and yourself asif you still have doubts over a trace or two... but I can't figure out which ones....
The trace orders were also pure coincidence...
Andrew thanks for the kind words... and don't worry I "get" you. And understand your communication style/ online personality by now... It is hard to tell somebody they are doing something wrong, when they might expect you to show them the right way... but it is easy to give them acknowledgement when they do something right, so they can take note and remember...
It still sounds asif between Graham and yourself asif you still have doubts over a trace or two... but I can't figure out which ones....
Hi,
I have never used/designed/built/modified a bootstrap power amplifier. But thinking through the current routes that might affect the accuracy of the NFB signal, it appears that the bootstrap current could introduce an error.
Think about it another way.
The bootstrap function is part of the amplifier.
The output is AFTER the amplifier.
The NFB tapping should sample the output of the amplifer.
Quid pro quo- the NFB tapping should be after the bootstrap tapping.
I guarantee that someone will be able to measure the difference. The question becomes, does it make any audible difference?
I have never used/designed/built/modified a bootstrap power amplifier. But thinking through the current routes that might affect the accuracy of the NFB signal, it appears that the bootstrap current could introduce an error.
Think about it another way.
The bootstrap function is part of the amplifier.
The output is AFTER the amplifier.
The NFB tapping should sample the output of the amplifer.
Quid pro quo- the NFB tapping should be after the bootstrap tapping.
I guarantee that someone will be able to measure the difference. The question becomes, does it make any audible difference?
which is why some of my posts are just a little (big) bit too long.
I have doubts you have hold soldering iron once to construct things
At least those last monthes you are so busy pointing other guy's errors (cooperating you will say) that you may not have time to visit the WC.
You are one of the post champions, more active than the moderators, loosing for 3 or 4 only.
Self elected as the forum main adviser, posting opinions everywhere, even into places you was not invited.
Have you constructed something in your life?
Do you have some picture to show us your nice work?
It may be excelent...perfect, as you suggest perfection to everybody, sniifing small details that do not bother sonics...your work may be excelent.
If you have not constructed boards, not beeing a DIY yourself, i would be happy to know if forum management have invited you to be the main adviser to the forum.
The message is directed to Mr Andrew T.
regards,
Carlos
.......................................................................................................
It is not correct that you have a correct phisical, spatial point to pick the feedback...Doctor Self suggested that but he is not correct in everything, even beeing a very good expert of audio.
That sittuation is imported, borrowed, from Radio Frequency, because of standing wave points, multiples and sub multiples of the wavelength...into audio this is just a Myth...you can pick your signal everywhere into the feedback line that you will not bother the electrons...they were not informed about Self dreams about.
You will not perceive absolutelly nothing in sonics..... another Myth.... and some folks repeat those things alike pirate parrots without test in real world..people that never, i believe, constructed a simple rectifier.
Construct the Blameless amplifier and you will see that you have to tweak almost all stages for sonics.... the one is really good and do not need arrangements (only resistances for biasing) is the VAS...the amplifier, made by the schematic, sounds strange... the mirror have to be removed for sonics purposes.
Doctor Self is good, but not perfect...i think he had never listened that amplifier...because if listened, the way published, without tweaks..the unit should be different for that one.
I told clearly into the thread that blameless sounds good, but this is after tweaks, as people is modifying and creating options to it...everybody informed that there are things needed to modify...even Doctor Self suggested modifications to improvement and said the amplifier is a model, and need to be finished.
regards,
Carlos
At least those last monthes you are so busy pointing other guy's errors (cooperating you will say) that you may not have time to visit the WC.
You are one of the post champions, more active than the moderators, loosing for 3 or 4 only.
Self elected as the forum main adviser, posting opinions everywhere, even into places you was not invited.
Have you constructed something in your life?
Do you have some picture to show us your nice work?
It may be excelent...perfect, as you suggest perfection to everybody, sniifing small details that do not bother sonics...your work may be excelent.
If you have not constructed boards, not beeing a DIY yourself, i would be happy to know if forum management have invited you to be the main adviser to the forum.
The message is directed to Mr Andrew T.
regards,
Carlos
.......................................................................................................
It is not correct that you have a correct phisical, spatial point to pick the feedback...Doctor Self suggested that but he is not correct in everything, even beeing a very good expert of audio.
That sittuation is imported, borrowed, from Radio Frequency, because of standing wave points, multiples and sub multiples of the wavelength...into audio this is just a Myth...you can pick your signal everywhere into the feedback line that you will not bother the electrons...they were not informed about Self dreams about.
You will not perceive absolutelly nothing in sonics..... another Myth.... and some folks repeat those things alike pirate parrots without test in real world..people that never, i believe, constructed a simple rectifier.
Construct the Blameless amplifier and you will see that you have to tweak almost all stages for sonics.... the one is really good and do not need arrangements (only resistances for biasing) is the VAS...the amplifier, made by the schematic, sounds strange... the mirror have to be removed for sonics purposes.
Doctor Self is good, but not perfect...i think he had never listened that amplifier...because if listened, the way published, without tweaks..the unit should be different for that one.
I told clearly into the thread that blameless sounds good, but this is after tweaks, as people is modifying and creating options to it...everybody informed that there are things needed to modify...even Doctor Self suggested modifications to improvement and said the amplifier is a model, and need to be finished.
regards,
Carlos
Just popped the Enya, Watermark CD in.... one of the first CDs I heard, when CD's came out... I forgot about the bass on that CD.. needless to say the one cat had a near heart attack and is now curled into a ball on my lap... and its not even that loud...
But the bass notes on the first track almost make you spill your coffee.... I think I read once the Watermark and the Long ships track goes down to 15Hz... now I believe it...
The wooden flute at 3 minutes into the track Exile is also stunningly real...and the DX does an excelent piano...
But the bass notes on the first track almost make you spill your coffee.... I think I read once the Watermark and the Long ships track goes down to 15Hz... now I believe it...
The wooden flute at 3 minutes into the track Exile is also stunningly real...and the DX does an excelent piano...
I found some space for a small relay that can be used to switch the HF boost cap in or out of the feedback loop... I asume that just wireing a switch in there would be even less ideal... of course you will still need to supply the controler or switch to power on the relay, as well as a small PSU to run these...
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