Hi guys, this is what WinISD is giving me
Here are the specs:
https://www.daytonaudio.com/images/resources/295-166--dayton-audio-mx12-22-spec-sheet.pdf
I triple checked, and it doesn't seem to work. If I force the Mms and Cms I get an integrity error.
Worked great for the 15-22.
Thanks!
Here are the specs:
https://www.daytonaudio.com/images/resources/295-166--dayton-audio-mx12-22-spec-sheet.pdf
I triple checked, and it doesn't seem to work. If I force the Mms and Cms I get an integrity error.
Worked great for the 15-22.
Thanks!
Vas = 45.7 L and for completeness add Pe = 600 W, Le = 5.09 mH, which will significantly alter its response
China garbage. return it - Buy this .... https://www.ebay.com/itm/133555744366 I tested the MX , HO ... dayton is current china garbage.
PS - the MX is "close' , a little less efficient. But , it is glued ... my 'ultra" has a bolted spider and i bought an extra cone and VC for it.
It sounds better than any dayton . .4 qtc /68L vas. perfect for 70L boxes. It's sold as a car sub ... truly does not sound like one !! (91db spl).
OS
PS - the MX is "close' , a little less efficient. But , it is glued ... my 'ultra" has a bolted spider and i bought an extra cone and VC for it.
It sounds better than any dayton . .4 qtc /68L vas. perfect for 70L boxes. It's sold as a car sub ... truly does not sound like one !! (91db spl).
OS
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You found it
I don't know how I missed Vas after checking a bunch of times
I read on a guide not to use Le?
https://midwestaudio.club/resources/winisd-a-beginners-tutorial/
"Entering voice coil inductance (Le) is not advised due to WinISD making assumptions about top end extension based on Le that will result in inaccurate modeling. Voice coil inductance absolutely affects the top end on a driver, but it is never an inverse linear relationship like the modelers predict it to be."
What do you think?
I don't know how I missed Vas after checking a bunch of times
I read on a guide not to use Le?
https://midwestaudio.club/resources/winisd-a-beginners-tutorial/
"Entering voice coil inductance (Le) is not advised due to WinISD making assumptions about top end extension based on Le that will result in inaccurate modeling. Voice coil inductance absolutely affects the top end on a driver, but it is never an inverse linear relationship like the modelers predict it to be."
What do you think?
I tried all the 12"Skar subs , they sound like car subs with high Qts , low VAS. The 'ultra is similar to a PB4000 sub . very low Fs. Paper cone and
rubber surround. While listening , it sounds perfect,. i did the math , Qtc ,Vas , it seems to be the 'classic" .4 Qtc woofer. The 90db spl was different from most
inefficient car subs (83-4). It was marketed as "SQ" (whatever). "LORDOFBASS" sells the "bifilar" voice coil and the cone. It really sounds so much better than the last 6 woofers that have been in the box.
This is what I have -
Thiele Small Parameters: 12”
Nominal Impedance Znom ohms 4.0
DC Resistance DCR ohms 3.05
Resonant Frequency Fs Hz 24.5
Mechanical Q Qms 4.2
Electrical Q Qes 0.44
Total Q Qts 0.4
Xmax (linear) in 13
Xmax (mechanical) in 0.000
Sensitivity 2.83 volts dB 89.3
Effective Piston Area Sd m2 0.045
Acoustic Compliance Vas liters 68.3
Moving Mass Mms grams 179
Suspension Compliance Cms µm/N 235.5
Motor Strength BL TM 13.75
Magnet and Voice Coil:
Voice Coil Diameter d in 2.5"
70L box ported to either 38 or 24 (block a port).
OS
-
rubber surround. While listening , it sounds perfect,. i did the math , Qtc ,Vas , it seems to be the 'classic" .4 Qtc woofer. The 90db spl was different from most
inefficient car subs (83-4). It was marketed as "SQ" (whatever). "LORDOFBASS" sells the "bifilar" voice coil and the cone. It really sounds so much better than the last 6 woofers that have been in the box.
This is what I have -
Thiele Small Parameters: 12”
Nominal Impedance Znom ohms 4.0
DC Resistance DCR ohms 3.05
Resonant Frequency Fs Hz 24.5
Mechanical Q Qms 4.2
Electrical Q Qes 0.44
Total Q Qts 0.4
Xmax (linear) in 13
Xmax (mechanical) in 0.000
Sensitivity 2.83 volts dB 89.3
Effective Piston Area Sd m2 0.045
Acoustic Compliance Vas liters 68.3
Moving Mass Mms grams 179
Suspension Compliance Cms µm/N 235.5
Motor Strength BL TM 13.75
Magnet and Voice Coil:
Voice Coil Diameter d in 2.5"
70L box ported to either 38 or 24 (block a port).
OS
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LOL, so they suggest not including Le, which will make the sim less accurate, because it will make sim less accurate?
What I think? I think you should probably not use WinISD...
I downloaded hornresp and it was too intimidating for me. I am not an electrical engineer. I'm trying to learn. This place is snarkier than a linux forum jeez.
Go ahead and put the inductance (and the inductance frequency, fLe) into WinISD. IIRC the inductance effect is off by default. To toggle the inductance effect on/off select the "Advanced" item and toggle the "Simulate voice coil inductance" checkbox.
LOL, sorry, it's been that kind of day.
I have a simple tutorial for modeling vented enclosures with Hornresp here - http://www.diysubwoofers.org/prt/
The tutorial actually has to be updated, as later versions of Hornresp offered more advanced modeling options (like including the impact of box losses and the location of the vent and driver in the box). Might do that update sometime during this week.
I have a simple tutorial for modeling vented enclosures with Hornresp here - http://www.diysubwoofers.org/prt/
The tutorial actually has to be updated, as later versions of Hornresp offered more advanced modeling options (like including the impact of box losses and the location of the vent and driver in the box). Might do that update sometime during this week.
Thank you. I tried googling but couldn't find a simple enough answer. Why is high inductance bad? in my case, how does it affect a DIY home subwoofer?
I was referring to @ostripper's Dayton 'China garbage' assertion and didn't see your 1 min. earlier post.
Yes, I knew what to look for. 😉
Mostly unprintable, though while it's technically correct, WinISD as a whole isn't nearly as accurate as some others, but it at least gives you 'something' that's in the 'ballpark', so best to input it when available.
That said, T/S theory peters out at the driver's effective upper mass corner (Fhm = 2*Fs/Qts'), so is the sim's upper limit, ergo ideally need Le to at least have a clue how it effects its HF response when there's no measured frequency response, etc., i.e. it rolls it off with increasing inductance, which as high as it is tells us the driver truly is limited to being a narrow BW woofer just as its published response shows if no zoebel or EQ is used to flatten it.
(Qts'): (Qts) + any added series resistance (Rs): http://www.mh-audio.nl/Calculators/newqts.html
Was for me too and sometimes still is, but it does have a comprehensive HELP file that can be made into a text doc to blow up, highlight, add notes to plus a dedicated forum by its developer, so not like you can't get help. Me neither, I just 'played'* one among others for ~27.5 years. *Did the job except for the higher math, but no college/higher math skills, so didn't get the big bucks or as 'comfortable' a pension of course.
'Snarkier'?! You must be horribly/incredibly 'thin skinned' if you think DIYaudio in any way meets these traits as I for one wouldn't be here.
Well to be fair, the second reply to my post was "China garbage. return it" when I never said I had actually purchased anything.
I just wanted help figuring out why the driver wouldn't model, and ostripper over here is telling me I'm stupid and writing a novel about his ebay subwoofer I'm not interested in.
I just wanted help figuring out why the driver wouldn't model, and ostripper over here is telling me I'm stupid and writing a novel about his ebay subwoofer I'm not interested in.
OK, cool, I failed mind reading 101 
, so please at least do the @ reference if not part of the post.
Yeah it was a bit too blunt for my tastes too, but IME better to ignore and when someone really 'tweaks' me I report the post and let cooler heads than mine decide if it went too far 'out of bounds'.
Regardless, got your specs worked out, so where to from here? (inquiring minds want to know
)
, so please at least do the @ reference if not part of the post.Yeah it was a bit too blunt for my tastes too, but IME better to ignore and when someone really 'tweaks' me I report the post and let cooler heads than mine decide if it went too far 'out of bounds'.
Regardless, got your specs worked out, so where to from here? (inquiring minds want to know
)
@GM I built a full marty 18 last year using a Lavoce 184.03 driver. Due to a mistake on Amazon's part I wound up with an Eminence NSW4018 in it. It's in my basement and the bass varies wildly from one position to another, so I'm going to tear down the full marty and build two "johnny subs" which are a 32 inch marty sub, with the two drivers. I had an NX3000D for the one sub, but I upgraded to a Sanway FP140000 lab gruppen clone.
I had crappy RF52 klipsch speakers from 15 years ago, so couple months ago I bought a kit from Crites Audio and built a pair of cornscala speakers using maple veneered baltic birch.
I'm going to use the NX3000D to power two sealed 15 inch subs I'm going to build for my living room to pair with Magnepan speakers. I don't have much room, so I'm doing 19 inches per side cube with a double baffle for these. Won't be listening to music, in that room, so I'm not too worried. I have a DDRC24 minidsp with Dirac on each system to flatten the response.
In my office on my computer I have Kanto Tuk speakers and a puny 8 inch sealed 200$ Kanto sub. I managed to get good bass out of the thing using equalizer APO on my PC (sub volume is turned to max on the sub, then cut down in the EQ) but I wanted to see what size box I'd have to make to make that work. Probably will hold off on that project since 4 subs to build at once is more than enough for now. I was looking at the 12-22 because the 15-22 has good numbers for a sealed, small box. The 12-22 doesn't seem to measure as well.
That's the plan!
I had crappy RF52 klipsch speakers from 15 years ago, so couple months ago I bought a kit from Crites Audio and built a pair of cornscala speakers using maple veneered baltic birch.
I'm going to use the NX3000D to power two sealed 15 inch subs I'm going to build for my living room to pair with Magnepan speakers. I don't have much room, so I'm doing 19 inches per side cube with a double baffle for these. Won't be listening to music, in that room, so I'm not too worried. I have a DDRC24 minidsp with Dirac on each system to flatten the response.
In my office on my computer I have Kanto Tuk speakers and a puny 8 inch sealed 200$ Kanto sub. I managed to get good bass out of the thing using equalizer APO on my PC (sub volume is turned to max on the sub, then cut down in the EQ) but I wanted to see what size box I'd have to make to make that work. Probably will hold off on that project since 4 subs to build at once is more than enough for now. I was looking at the 12-22 because the 15-22 has good numbers for a sealed, small box. The 12-22 doesn't seem to measure as well.
That's the plan!