I've tried ESS9038q2m, but at those time without good power supply and it passed by without any time or attention. Maybe I'll try again someday. Subject DAC sounds alive, engaging and I don't care that it has only 112dB SNR 😎
AK4493SEQ with transformers is quite good. ES9039Q2M with transformers is also better than without them but not as good as the AKM. Hard to admit but I prefer them without any opamp despite those measuring better. AK4497 is a special case. Always good 🙂 Haven't had the AK4499 but I slowly get the feeling that DAC technology has matured and I don't expect spectacular developments except for AP challenges. The MHz war in CPUs translated to DACs.
No charge pump = no possible MHz spurious. Almost neglectable but when one has the choice...
No charge pump = no possible MHz spurious. Almost neglectable but when one has the choice...
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Then I'll order TPS7a3301, it will we very simple to make it. I look at that link to CS topic, but there it is talk about numbers. CS sounds very good with good power supply. Maybe here is a problems with portable small dongles because of usb power and very limited space in the case
Could be. I have yet to meet a DAC that did not benefit from cutting USB bus power. These dongles can therefor IMHO not be as good as separates and even if they can compete I don't use anything portable.
A guy I know here tried an SMSL DAC with that CS chip but before I could hear it he already sold it. Same goes for products with the Rohm chips, apparently owners decide in 1 week to get rid of them.
A guy I know here tried an SMSL DAC with that CS chip but before I could hear it he already sold it. Same goes for products with the Rohm chips, apparently owners decide in 1 week to get rid of them.
Btw some chifi brands understand it, and working on it. They achieve the required values in characteristics at the lowest possible cost and don't care how it sounds
Isn't that an assumption? I get the impression that some brands hire engineers that do care. The Top 20 is all by chinese brands anyway.
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Well, you understand what you can take from AK4493S, but they have a target price and those engineers work perfect to achive value .001% distorion for expamle in target budget. But this is not a true capabilities of this DAC chip to achieve in 80USD in retail you know, right ?
Not clear what you are hinting. There does not seem to be much difference in implementation in cheap or less cheap devices except for output stage (1, 3 or 5 opamp models) and USB/dedicated power. Balanced outputs are reserved for the better ones. One can change things and improve them often but with a risk.
Maybe one should not worry too much when they perform sonically better than other more expensive stuff. I don't, when it sounds good it is good.
Maybe one should not worry too much when they perform sonically better than other more expensive stuff. I don't, when it sounds good it is good.
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I'm talking about that "MHz war in CPU world" in audio world. People need beautiful values in specs and those engineers make them the desired values (with the chip capabilities at first of course, that is not engeneets achievement). They make a device for example in 50USD cost price, check measurements - aha, we get desired 0.01% value and then they don't care how it sounds. It will be sound like AKM chip can with this layout and with this power supply. Make something better with it and AKM chip will sounds better and better. People need those values and they get it and they also get good sound of AKM chip but far from it capabilities. In principle all is well, both the seller and the buyer are satisfied. But sometimes later buyer came to point when he understand that this DAC chip can sounds much better and it is better to made it by himself or buy more expencive thing.
Not only output stage differs. Board layout, quality of power supply and quality of components.
Not only output stage differs. Board layout, quality of power supply and quality of components.
How do you think those engineers make it in cheap device ? 😉
If I look carefully I see regulators. Like in its more expensive brother. Same large value 2200 µF caps too. Same switcher for opamp power too.
Yes power supply is a big factor but otherwise I feel the differences between types by the same brand not very large. The more known brands don't want to burn their fingers on using fake or recycled parts so what is the problem?
They make them cheaper by omitting features, use plastic for knobs and casings, only RCA, tiny displays or no display etc. If one likes the (pretty often imagined) better performance and the features of a 1000 Euro DAC then should buy a 1000 Euro DAC.
If one wants AK4497 performance one should better not look at PCM5102 either.
Yes power supply is a big factor but otherwise I feel the differences between types by the same brand not very large. The more known brands don't want to burn their fingers on using fake or recycled parts so what is the problem?
They make them cheaper by omitting features, use plastic for knobs and casings, only RCA, tiny displays or no display etc. If one likes the (pretty often imagined) better performance and the features of a 1000 Euro DAC then should buy a 1000 Euro DAC.
If one wants AK4497 performance one should better not look at PCM5102 either.
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I also see, but they do it by only 2 regulators (moreover, there is also the question of what level). One for both AVDD and TVDD and another for all VDDL, VDDR, VREFL, VREFR.
As you understand, this upper quote from manufacturer about power lines improve audio quality and this is an additional expenses and they never spend any extra cent/dollar becasue why ? Desired graphs and values in hands and dont care.
Moderator, please delete later not related posts to PCM5102A thread.
This only seems normal for the very low price. What do you expect for below 90 Euro? I rather look at such a device what is it really can deliver for that price. One can not expect miracles. One can however try to add the missing stuff and cut out the superfluous stuff. There is a challenge in that.
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Exactly ! But with "excellent" score and values of specs. This is the main thing which do those engineers for people who think that those numbers are sound. But that score is far away from DAC chip audio capabilities
I have multiple versions of DAC that I use with my projects and one of the best and easiest ways of improving the sound and eliminating pop etc is to use balanced line transformers. I use the Jensen PCB mount on one type of DAC. The other way is to use line receiver IC. I love them both. The transformers just give you that elegant separation between the digital and the analog world. You would need a DAC that drives differential lines. I use the PCM5242 and will soon be using the TAD5242 when it's on the shelves. The TAD5242 will be eliminating the mute circuit in favor of an internal solution that mutes when the audio is not being processed. Apparently there is also some work going into the chip to reduce the pop when the muting is activated and deactivated.. moot when you use the balanced line. I have no capacitors in the audio chain for either rendition of DAC, transformer or IC. It's not difficult to use at all and soldering is as simple as wiping a small amount of solder paste over the pads and heating it up. If the pads get crossed, add some flux and wipe the iron across them. The DAC chip doesn't need a lot of paste. You can even pre solder the pads and then add flux for the attachment soldering of the DAC chip.
Can't edit but I must say that I'll need to wait for warm up all new components, yesterday it was very good, but today I'm not sure. Anyway this very cheap PCM5102 is a good DAC as minimal for newbies and even not only for them
That is a nice way. Since I sometimes sell such transformers I also notice the misuse of certain types.
Therefor a tip to those reading:
* Please check if the transformers that you want to use are suitable for DAC voltages.
Finally made a new power supply for the PCM5102 analog part and it sounds amazing. It is two absolutely different DACs 👍
After some experiments I found that it is better to disable internal LDO and use external 1.8 for digital part and also disable internal charge pump and make external +-3.3V supply. For digital 1.8 I use LP5907, for +-3.3V TPS7A4701/TPS7A3301 and also one TPS7A4701 as main positive supply after rectifier. Aslo seems to me it is better to use external master clock.
Thanks Anatolii for the feedback and sorry for the late reply. I aborted the project and had a pretty complicated year, but your advice made me want to work on it again as soon as I'm able to !
Triggered by your post I looked again at the data sheet of PCM5102A and see that TI now recommends using TAD5142 ("a newer version of this product is available") despite the PCM5102A being labelled as "active". Not pin compatible and QFN.
I hope last year was not complicated because of health issues.
I hope last year was not complicated because of health issues.
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