Hi profiguy,
True, but ALL Philips VAM transports were terribly made in China. Obviously zero quality control, the manufacturers I did warranty for bought these right from Philips. Really, its hard to imagine doing worse buying direct from China, and I'll bet "knockoffs" are better than the original product.
The above comments also apply to the RF / servo PCB that also came from Philips - without documentation. Really cheap phenolic board that warped all on it's lonesome. Just about the worst products I have ever seen. Even the phenolic I made PCBs with in the 1970's as a student was thicker and stayed mostly flat.
True, but ALL Philips VAM transports were terribly made in China. Obviously zero quality control, the manufacturers I did warranty for bought these right from Philips. Really, its hard to imagine doing worse buying direct from China, and I'll bet "knockoffs" are better than the original product.
The above comments also apply to the RF / servo PCB that also came from Philips - without documentation. Really cheap phenolic board that warped all on it's lonesome. Just about the worst products I have ever seen. Even the phenolic I made PCBs with in the 1970's as a student was thicker and stayed mostly flat.
Well I like KSS-151A too . Yet to see a bad one but I do have a problem with Teac Esoteric based transport sporting Kss-151A which I'm hesitant to tackle mainly because of the pain in the butt disassembly, expense of the machine. and lack of circuit diagram. Servo board is under the transport mech and basically all the shebang needs to be taken apart. The head assembly sliding on magnetic tracks simply stops before the disc clamp and attempts to search for TOC. When I move the whole cart under the cd it finds the TOC and can play CD . There is no mechanical obstruction , I lubricated rails and bronze bushings to no avail. Sometimes it would play all day without a hiccup after sufficient warm up time and I'm beginning to congratulate myself successful "repair" just to refuse to play next day without manually moving the head assembly under CD. Meh
Hi limono,
I hate those machines too, and I was authorized warranty. Any "stable platter" design is seriously flawed - run. Teac took the design to new lows, making it far too complicated to adjust and get into. The laser head itself is pretty straight forward, but this is a case where they tried to make it far too complicated so it could look like a top transport. I wouldn't own one. The DAC unit was fine, the transport very pretty with the DAC.
If you can get it working, sell it for lots of money. Buy a Denon (I kid you not). What you do want is minimal lubricant on the rails. So apply the fine oil, wipe it off and you should be set.
I hate those machines too, and I was authorized warranty. Any "stable platter" design is seriously flawed - run. Teac took the design to new lows, making it far too complicated to adjust and get into. The laser head itself is pretty straight forward, but this is a case where they tried to make it far too complicated so it could look like a top transport. I wouldn't own one. The DAC unit was fine, the transport very pretty with the DAC.
If you can get it working, sell it for lots of money. Buy a Denon (I kid you not). What you do want is minimal lubricant on the rails. So apply the fine oil, wipe it off and you should be set.
Hi folks,
I didn't realise this would produce such a debate, thanks you to all for your comments.
I have successfully spoken to a UK company, "My Tech Guys" who specialise in higher end Hi-Fi repairs, and believe they have good access to any parts required, I will update this thread on my progress.
Profiguy, a special thanks for the offer, and I will be in contact if my current solution fails.
I didn't realise this would produce such a debate, thanks you to all for your comments.
I have successfully spoken to a UK company, "My Tech Guys" who specialise in higher end Hi-Fi repairs, and believe they have good access to any parts required, I will update this thread on my progress.
Profiguy, a special thanks for the offer, and I will be in contact if my current solution fails.
Hi guys, I promised a reply about the work tried on my machine.
A new laser has been fitted, which after 22 years this sounds fair, but the problem has not been fixed, the engineer let me know the transport end i.e. loading etc seems to be OK, but he is struggling to find a solution for the "No Disc" error.
Message for Anatech, Profiguy kindly offered to send me an unused boxed up VAM1201, but needs a postal address, is this something as administrator you could pass through for me, or let me know the process without adding it to the thread?.
Profiguy, if you are happy to pass this on that might be worth a trial.
Finally, on this thread, if all is lost and the Cyrus CD7 is to be scrapped, I am looking at two potential replacements Arcam CD5 or Marantz CD60, does anyone have any views on these.
A new laser has been fitted, which after 22 years this sounds fair, but the problem has not been fixed, the engineer let me know the transport end i.e. loading etc seems to be OK, but he is struggling to find a solution for the "No Disc" error.
Message for Anatech, Profiguy kindly offered to send me an unused boxed up VAM1201, but needs a postal address, is this something as administrator you could pass through for me, or let me know the process without adding it to the thread?.
Profiguy, if you are happy to pass this on that might be worth a trial.
Finally, on this thread, if all is lost and the Cyrus CD7 is to be scrapped, I am looking at two potential replacements Arcam CD5 or Marantz CD60, does anyone have any views on these.
It has to be original NOS Philips laser or original laser from a good working donor player to be certain it's not a laser issue. With aftermarket lasers one of three will work and sometimes none from the batch of China sourced heads will work. It doesn't matter that they work in other players. It is player specific in my experience.
Hi Nigel,
Try and PM Profiguy. IF that doesn't work, PM me and I"ll pass your information on.
Sorry for the delay, I just got back from vacation.
Replacement machines? Marantz or Denon.
Hi limono,
There is no such thing as a Chinese copy of this transport. It was poorly made in China to begin with. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find "new manufacture" to be better than the scrap originally installed. I did warranty on these using "real parts" at the time. Those were terrible transports, they were the final straw for many brands using the Philips transports.
If you are thinking of copies made for Japanese transports and laser heads, I'll agree with you somewhat. The Chinese disc motors were not very good either, I can only hope everything has improved over time.
Try and PM Profiguy. IF that doesn't work, PM me and I"ll pass your information on.
Sorry for the delay, I just got back from vacation.
Replacement machines? Marantz or Denon.
Hi limono,
There is no such thing as a Chinese copy of this transport. It was poorly made in China to begin with. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find "new manufacture" to be better than the scrap originally installed. I did warranty on these using "real parts" at the time. Those were terrible transports, they were the final straw for many brands using the Philips transports.
If you are thinking of copies made for Japanese transports and laser heads, I'll agree with you somewhat. The Chinese disc motors were not very good either, I can only hope everything has improved over time.
I can't match your experience. BUT, couldn't find replacement VAM head which would work in Audio Research Cd2 nir Meridian 508. Also I bought 3 heads from China for Naim CDX , none worked but Chinese heads sourced from Liberty worked like a charm.
All I'm saying is that scrap head from working player at least rules out head issue in some extent.
All I'm saying is that scrap head from working player at least rules out head issue in some extent.
Hi limono,
You are correct. A known, working head is the only way to see for sure.
It doesn't matter the brand of player. These mechs were all made cheaply in China with zero quality control. My failure rate was the same - ish as you quoted using new mechanisms supplied by Philips from the manufacturer of the product. That's as real as you can get. The RF/Servo PCB was also made by the same Chinese people, no documentation.
For the VAM series, they were all made in China - badly. I bet that new mechs are better since now the Chinese have to back them instead of Philips. I was in on the source of manufacturing from the start. The Cyrus engineers were dismayed at the poor quality as Cyrus makes excellent stuff, and their engineering is very advanced over normal. Really good stuff. They broke from using Philips over this trash. I did get some info I can't release, and I had to figure out the servo PCB myself. So anyone using this junk has the exact same issues. No information, poor quality transports. Mind you, Philips was never supportive or gave good information. They didn't want mechanisms repaired. I was even trained at Philips early on.
Don't forget, the companies selling CD players often did not design them. Denon, Sony, Yamaha, Marantz, Revox, Nakamichi, Cyrus and Philips designed the electronics and servos at some points. They had on staff engineers. Other brands merely purchased the design complete and are not able to correct design issues. The worst issues often came from the brand's internal designs to whatever they bought to sell. OEM manufacturing became "contract manufacturing", and that should never have been allowed.
You are correct. A known, working head is the only way to see for sure.
It doesn't matter the brand of player. These mechs were all made cheaply in China with zero quality control. My failure rate was the same - ish as you quoted using new mechanisms supplied by Philips from the manufacturer of the product. That's as real as you can get. The RF/Servo PCB was also made by the same Chinese people, no documentation.
For the VAM series, they were all made in China - badly. I bet that new mechs are better since now the Chinese have to back them instead of Philips. I was in on the source of manufacturing from the start. The Cyrus engineers were dismayed at the poor quality as Cyrus makes excellent stuff, and their engineering is very advanced over normal. Really good stuff. They broke from using Philips over this trash. I did get some info I can't release, and I had to figure out the servo PCB myself. So anyone using this junk has the exact same issues. No information, poor quality transports. Mind you, Philips was never supportive or gave good information. They didn't want mechanisms repaired. I was even trained at Philips early on.
Don't forget, the companies selling CD players often did not design them. Denon, Sony, Yamaha, Marantz, Revox, Nakamichi, Cyrus and Philips designed the electronics and servos at some points. They had on staff engineers. Other brands merely purchased the design complete and are not able to correct design issues. The worst issues often came from the brand's internal designs to whatever they bought to sell. OEM manufacturing became "contract manufacturing", and that should never have been allowed.
Hi folks
It would appear the story of my Cyrus CD7 continues. I have a tenacious technician working on my rig.
He has replaced the laser as mentioned earlier, and continued to strip fully serviced the loading mechanism, and this has improved the situation such that it has been working as a test unit whilst repairing someone else's amplifier for several days.
But, he has another problem, whilst on test it did not have the bottom cover in place, however, now every time he puts the bottom plate back on he gets the error message, this does not make sense as the bottom plate is plastic, has anyone got a solution in mind? it is bizarre.
It would appear the story of my Cyrus CD7 continues. I have a tenacious technician working on my rig.
He has replaced the laser as mentioned earlier, and continued to strip fully serviced the loading mechanism, and this has improved the situation such that it has been working as a test unit whilst repairing someone else's amplifier for several days.
But, he has another problem, whilst on test it did not have the bottom cover in place, however, now every time he puts the bottom plate back on he gets the error message, this does not make sense as the bottom plate is plastic, has anyone got a solution in mind? it is bizarre.
I'm talking about Nigel's unit, not yours.
Anyway, I remember those in the bad old days. They didn't normally have an overheating issue. Yours may have a heat sensitive component as it is extremely old. If it is very close to a Philips, resolder the "Griblets" and component leads that connect the top and bottoms of the PCBs. It's a well known issue. You must remove the old solder, clean, add liquid flux and resolder to repair properly. There are some electrolytic caps on the servo PCB as well.
Anyway, I remember those in the bad old days. They didn't normally have an overheating issue. Yours may have a heat sensitive component as it is extremely old. If it is very close to a Philips, resolder the "Griblets" and component leads that connect the top and bottoms of the PCBs. It's a well known issue. You must remove the old solder, clean, add liquid flux and resolder to repair properly. There are some electrolytic caps on the servo PCB as well.
I'm talking about Nigels as well
. He made it sound like attaching the cover results in immediate error message but maybe the error message appears after a discs or two are played .
You're unlikely to be familiar with MCD Pro version. Only handfull were made for studios and rich people. .Regular MCD it was all Philips with Meridian Ad on analog board and the bottom was a regular perforated plastic piece. Pro bersion has a steel enclosure at the bottom housing additional transformer , decoder and analog circuitry and a few hot regulators almost touching the main board with servo circuitry right in the proximity of old servo op-amps , power supply and its termistors. I replaced all the caps. Cyrus stuff was always like a brick , small ,densely packed and prone to overheating .
. He made it sound like attaching the cover results in immediate error message but maybe the error message appears after a discs or two are played .You're unlikely to be familiar with MCD Pro version. Only handfull were made for studios and rich people. .Regular MCD it was all Philips with Meridian Ad on analog board and the bottom was a regular perforated plastic piece. Pro bersion has a steel enclosure at the bottom housing additional transformer , decoder and analog circuitry and a few hot regulators almost touching the main board with servo circuitry right in the proximity of old servo op-amps , power supply and its termistors. I replaced all the caps. Cyrus stuff was always like a brick , small ,densely packed and prone to overheating .
Well, don't bet on it! lol!
I ran a 6,000 sq ft shop in the Toronto area. I saw most high end stuff and did recording studio service. I was authorized warranty for Mission and Canadian service manager for Cyrus and Creek. No, Cyrus did not have an overheating problem. Wonderful design. I have the very first Mono (pair) and Pre X imported into Canada. Mission, some of those cooked themselves for sure.
Anyway, from what the OP said, the reading fault occurs immediately when putting the cover on. There are some cables sensitive to capacitance.
I ran a 6,000 sq ft shop in the Toronto area. I saw most high end stuff and did recording studio service. I was authorized warranty for Mission and Canadian service manager for Cyrus and Creek. No, Cyrus did not have an overheating problem. Wonderful design. I have the very first Mono (pair) and Pre X imported into Canada. Mission, some of those cooked themselves for sure.
Anyway, from what the OP said, the reading fault occurs immediately when putting the cover on. There are some cables sensitive to capacitance.
Good to have you here indeed.
I have Marantz Sa-7 sacd . Heavily modified by Jena Labs . All the SMD caps in servo unit are cooked..I heard the heads are adjusted via software and service sockets and unless one has Marantz service software the chances of repair are close to null. Is this correct ?
I have Marantz Sa-7 sacd . Heavily modified by Jena Labs . All the SMD caps in servo unit are cooked..I heard the heads are adjusted via software and service sockets and unless one has Marantz service software the chances of repair are close to null. Is this correct ?
Hi limono,
I don't do warranty service any longer, so I can't say for sure on the software alignment aspect. If they do that, they are simply freezing out non-authorized service people. Most manufacturers went to servos to automatically correct adjustments. Heads may have an adjustment set at the factory for laser power, this has been the case for ages now. Some align E-F balance on the head if it has the RF amp on it. Same for focus balance. I would need the SA-7 service manual to be certain.
smt caps shouldn't be cooked yet, but I guess depending on the brand / quality they could be. If it's a Philips transport, they moved production / design to China. The resulting product is complete garbage (cheap as it could be). The Sharp heads are servo based mostly, Denon used them for example. Just replace the bad caps with good quality from authorized distributors. Marantz (if they designed and built the circuit themselves) used very good parts, and solid designs.
On products like Denon and Marantz, I would approach modifications very cautiously. Mostly power supply, filters and audio output are areas you can improve on - sometimes. Many modification specialists actually degrade performance from what I have seen. You have to be careful, and just part swaps are not the way. Certainly larger capacitors tend to point to people who have no idea what they are doing. Less good brands tend to have PCB layout problems, and simply poor design. Not much you can do, you can make them better but they will never perform as well as a good machine.
I don't do warranty service any longer, so I can't say for sure on the software alignment aspect. If they do that, they are simply freezing out non-authorized service people. Most manufacturers went to servos to automatically correct adjustments. Heads may have an adjustment set at the factory for laser power, this has been the case for ages now. Some align E-F balance on the head if it has the RF amp on it. Same for focus balance. I would need the SA-7 service manual to be certain.
smt caps shouldn't be cooked yet, but I guess depending on the brand / quality they could be. If it's a Philips transport, they moved production / design to China. The resulting product is complete garbage (cheap as it could be). The Sharp heads are servo based mostly, Denon used them for example. Just replace the bad caps with good quality from authorized distributors. Marantz (if they designed and built the circuit themselves) used very good parts, and solid designs.
On products like Denon and Marantz, I would approach modifications very cautiously. Mostly power supply, filters and audio output are areas you can improve on - sometimes. Many modification specialists actually degrade performance from what I have seen. You have to be careful, and just part swaps are not the way. Certainly larger capacitors tend to point to people who have no idea what they are doing. Less good brands tend to have PCB layout problems, and simply poor design. Not much you can do, you can make them better but they will never perform as well as a good machine.
The machine lasted 10 years of constant use. It's not so bad but it did cost $8k. They used cheapest Hitachi Hop heads and rather primitive mech housed in nice machined aluminum case.
Mods replaced all the wiring , output stage was replaced by transformers and the front gold face plate was drilled to accommodate a stepped attenuator. All fuses were replaced by circuit breakers. It's a vile nest of wires. It is a SACD player. I kept it on for a week and was able to play a few Cd's . If the player is dead and it starts to play after a week of being on , there is rarely anything other to blame but capacitors. The mech and servo is an integrated closed box . I checked all the SmD caps , and ESR on all of them is up to the roof. The same story with Arcam BluRay. It only somehow works if it's constantly On . I agree that quality of SMD caps improved in last 20 years.
Mods replaced all the wiring , output stage was replaced by transformers and the front gold face plate was drilled to accommodate a stepped attenuator. All fuses were replaced by circuit breakers. It's a vile nest of wires. It is a SACD player. I kept it on for a week and was able to play a few Cd's . If the player is dead and it starts to play after a week of being on , there is rarely anything other to blame but capacitors. The mech and servo is an integrated closed box . I checked all the SmD caps , and ESR on all of them is up to the roof. The same story with Arcam BluRay. It only somehow works if it's constantly On . I agree that quality of SMD caps improved in last 20 years.