PS:
Tried modelling aperidic boxes for the TangBand. There is no way to use them for a 280 Hz crossover. It will have to be an electrical crossover to make it work.
Of course, you can always cross over higher in frequency than 280 Hz if you want to use a passive crossover.
Tried modelling aperidic boxes for the TangBand. There is no way to use them for a 280 Hz crossover. It will have to be an electrical crossover to make it work.
Of course, you can always cross over higher in frequency than 280 Hz if you want to use a passive crossover.
I've been working on the sim for the Audax this afternoon. Going to take a break now-have to go somewhere to watch the game. Might get a chance to return tonight. If not, I will sim tomorrow.
I am going to make the height of the internal enclosure no more than 30", since because I don't want the TangBand center to be much above 34", which is approximately ear height when seated.
I am going to try a conventional TL, because I think that might be more in the original spirit of the Needle. But if that doesn't work too well, I will try to give you an Mass Loaded Transmission Line instead.
The difference? Mass Loaded Transmission Lines go deeper, but always seem to end up with a cutoff slop of 24 dB/octave or more. Transmission Lines can often have more gradual slopes, and a more gradual slope is considered somewhat better.
I am going to make the height of the internal enclosure no more than 30", since because I don't want the TangBand center to be much above 34", which is approximately ear height when seated.
I am going to try a conventional TL, because I think that might be more in the original spirit of the Needle. But if that doesn't work too well, I will try to give you an Mass Loaded Transmission Line instead.
The difference? Mass Loaded Transmission Lines go deeper, but always seem to end up with a cutoff slop of 24 dB/octave or more. Transmission Lines can often have more gradual slopes, and a more gradual slope is considered somewhat better.
If I want to crossover at 280 hz, i need a 4.5 mH inductor(Easily found) and a 70 uf cap.
I found a 68 uf non-polarized electrolytic and a 2 uf Solen metal film. Would i wire these in parrallel to achieve 70 uf?
The reason for the two caps is because it is suggested when using electrolytics to bridge with another smaller higher quality cap.
Inductor:
http://stores.channeladvisor.com/musicsupplycenter/Items/500-05-0017?sck=5537923
Caps:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-534
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-356
will this work fine? or will it be crappy sounding? or should i ask in another thread?
I found a 68 uf non-polarized electrolytic and a 2 uf Solen metal film. Would i wire these in parrallel to achieve 70 uf?
The reason for the two caps is because it is suggested when using electrolytics to bridge with another smaller higher quality cap.
Inductor:
http://stores.channeladvisor.com/musicsupplycenter/Items/500-05-0017?sck=5537923
Caps:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-534
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-356
will this work fine? or will it be crappy sounding? or should i ask in another thread?
Ask in antoher thread. There is crossover software that can help, although most people will tell you that measuring is a must.
There is also Speaker Workshop for doing passive crossovers.
If you cross over at 280 hz, I think you will run into problems because of impedance spike of your enclosure at 140 Hz. Also, if you want the TangBand's to run linearly at 20 watts per channel, crossing over at 500 Hz is the way to go. If you cross over at 280, you might run out of linear excursion at 5 or 6 watts. The TangBands only have 0.5 mm of linear excursion to work with. That is very little. There are dome tweeters which have more excursion than that.
There is also Speaker Workshop for doing passive crossovers.
If you cross over at 280 hz, I think you will run into problems because of impedance spike of your enclosure at 140 Hz. Also, if you want the TangBand's to run linearly at 20 watts per channel, crossing over at 500 Hz is the way to go. If you cross over at 280, you might run out of linear excursion at 5 or 6 watts. The TangBands only have 0.5 mm of linear excursion to work with. That is very little. There are dome tweeters which have more excursion than that.
alright, as soon as we get a design, either audax or dayton, i will start another thread on XO design...
Here is a couple of TL designs, but they are almost a cubic foot volume.
I had much smoother response from a Daline of the same size, but the program froze on me before I had the chance to copy the response.
And as an alternative, we have the Mass Loaded Transmission Line, with a smoother response but with a 24 dB/octave cutoff. Which is not bad, but some like gradual slopes.
I had much smoother response from a Daline of the same size, but the program froze on me before I had the chance to copy the response.
And as an alternative, we have the Mass Loaded Transmission Line, with a smoother response but with a 24 dB/octave cutoff. Which is not bad, but some like gradual slopes.
Attachments
Hi,
for 1st order crossovers a series type works better,
as it is less disturbed by impedance peaks in the drivers.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-301
Is the bass driver I'd use. The difference in sensitivity between the
drivers means the c/o will incorporate some baffle step correction.
Also to make the BSC work reasonably well c/o freq > 500Hz.
🙂/sreten.
for 1st order crossovers a series type works better,
as it is less disturbed by impedance peaks in the drivers.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-301
Is the bass driver I'd use. The difference in sensitivity between the
drivers means the c/o will incorporate some baffle step correction.
Also to make the BSC work reasonably well c/o freq > 500Hz.
🙂/sreten.
Is the Dayton you show much better as far as design capability an perforance?
Because if it is much easier to create a better TL and nicer XO, i will be glad to pay more, but if the TL won't perform as well as the cheaper dayton, i would be apt to stay with the cheaper one.
I came up with a better design size/shape. I would like a TL of around 5.5 or 6 inches outer width, and a height of 30 to 36 inches, depth anywhere under 12 inches. This will allow the mounting scheme I have designed to work well, and allow the TB's to be positioned at a correct height.
I can wind my own inductors at work, we have a machine that takes in the length of wire required and winds it almost perfect layer for me. So inductors are no longer a price point. Capacitors are more of a price issue, since I do not know if we have audio worthy caps. However we may have some cheap electrolytics that I could use for the majority of the capacitance required in the XO and then purchase some higher quality audio caps to parrallel with the lesser quality electros.
So now we have 3 drivers to choose from, i really like the dayton's looks over the Audax though, but it will ultimately come down to price/performance. If the Cheaper Audax performs as well or better than the more expensive drivers, i will work to make it look better later. However the cheaper dayton looks the coolest.
Thanks for the suggestions and help everyone so far! (Well mainly the two of you that have responded...)
😉
Because if it is much easier to create a better TL and nicer XO, i will be glad to pay more, but if the TL won't perform as well as the cheaper dayton, i would be apt to stay with the cheaper one.
I came up with a better design size/shape. I would like a TL of around 5.5 or 6 inches outer width, and a height of 30 to 36 inches, depth anywhere under 12 inches. This will allow the mounting scheme I have designed to work well, and allow the TB's to be positioned at a correct height.
I can wind my own inductors at work, we have a machine that takes in the length of wire required and winds it almost perfect layer for me. So inductors are no longer a price point. Capacitors are more of a price issue, since I do not know if we have audio worthy caps. However we may have some cheap electrolytics that I could use for the majority of the capacitance required in the XO and then purchase some higher quality audio caps to parrallel with the lesser quality electros.
So now we have 3 drivers to choose from, i really like the dayton's looks over the Audax though, but it will ultimately come down to price/performance. If the Cheaper Audax performs as well or better than the more expensive drivers, i will work to make it look better later. However the cheaper dayton looks the coolest.
Thanks for the suggestions and help everyone so far! (Well mainly the two of you that have responded...)
😉
Relax said:
IMO it will be easier to get a reasonable result with a simple crossover,
I can't really comment on how the drivers will do for anything more complicated.
🙂/sreten.
TBs and Dayton's aren't so common in the UK, so we don't get to hear them much. How do they compare with, say, Jordans in this sort of application?
I have never had the pleasure to listen to a jordan. So I really could not compare them.
The Tang Band W3s i have are amazing for such acheap little driver.
The Tang Band W3s i have are amazing for such acheap little driver.
Sorry about missing the sim last night. Kind of tired.
Will be doing some sims tonight. Having some trouble getting smooth response from a normal TL. If someone else wants to try, that would be fine.
Daline is better, and I suspect Mass Loaded Transmission Line is even smoother, although I have yet to sim it.
See you later. I think sreten's driver has the best Thiele-Small parameters for whichever enclosure we use, so I'll sim that.
Will be doing some sims tonight. Having some trouble getting smooth response from a normal TL. If someone else wants to try, that would be fine.
Daline is better, and I suspect Mass Loaded Transmission Line is even smoother, although I have yet to sim it.
See you later. I think sreten's driver has the best Thiele-Small parameters for whichever enclosure we use, so I'll sim that.
take your time, i am not in a rush, and really don't deserve to rush you if I were.
Whatever kind of TL works best is okay. Between the daytons then? I would really like to try with the Silver and Black dayton, since that would look nice. Perhaps if they perform similar that will eb the deciding factor.
Will any measurements of my room help? i.e. the longest diagnal or height whatever...
If we can figure the enclosure I can build asap.
Whatever kind of TL works best is okay. Between the daytons then? I would really like to try with the Silver and Black dayton, since that would look nice. Perhaps if they perform similar that will eb the deciding factor.
Will any measurements of my room help? i.e. the longest diagnal or height whatever...
If we can figure the enclosure I can build asap.
Sreten's Dayton
Well, I decided to stop messing around with conventional Tl's and Dalines. I went straight for the Mass Loaded TL, because Sreten's Dayotn has a small excursion, 2.5 mm.
The MLTL gives great excursion relief-the cone has to move less air than in the simple ported box. This unit is 22 dB down at resonance-in a ported box it would be only 12 dB down.
Here is a frequency response curve, here also is an excursion graph.
Well, I decided to stop messing around with conventional Tl's and Dalines. I went straight for the Mass Loaded TL, because Sreten's Dayotn has a small excursion, 2.5 mm.
The MLTL gives great excursion relief-the cone has to move less air than in the simple ported box. This unit is 22 dB down at resonance-in a ported box it would be only 12 dB down.
Here is a frequency response curve, here also is an excursion graph.
Attachments
The MLTL is 30" high, 32" cross section area. Tuning is 40 Hz. the port is 2" diameter-I recommend you get a flared one. The port length is 7 inches.
So that is the all black dayton? How does the silver dayton compare in an MLTL?
I guess as this continues, I realize I want the look of the Cabinet a certain way, and the silver and black dayton would be more to the idea in my head.
If it performs considerably worse, (3db down?), then the other dayton(all black) will be selected.
Is there any way to get a lower response either? I am just asking, 40 hz is good, but if lower is easily attainable, why not?
Or will room response handle that drop well? Maybe corner placement?
I guess as this continues, I realize I want the look of the Cabinet a certain way, and the silver and black dayton would be more to the idea in my head.
If it performs considerably worse, (3db down?), then the other dayton(all black) will be selected.
Is there any way to get a lower response either? I am just asking, 40 hz is good, but if lower is easily attainable, why not?
Or will room response handle that drop well? Maybe corner placement?
That is the black Dayton, #295-301.
I'll check the other Dayton tomorrow.
As far as getting a lower response, I would just say that bass output depends on the amount of air moved. The MLTL enclosure apparently allows SPL output far hgher than a 5" cone normally will permit. But you are stil dealing with a 5" driver.
40 Hz from a 5" driver would be really, really good.
I'll check the other Dayton tomorrow.
As far as getting a lower response, I would just say that bass output depends on the amount of air moved. The MLTL enclosure apparently allows SPL output far hgher than a 5" cone normally will permit. But you are stil dealing with a 5" driver.
40 Hz from a 5" driver would be really, really good.
Thats cool, I was just checking, i am sure room response will slow that drop a little...
The heighth and cross sectional area seem about right for the look I want.
What about square or slot ports, the only round ports i have(and would like to avoid buying more) are 1.5 dia x 4 length. I also have PVC, but i like the look of the slot at the base of the box, does that effect the design?
like a 4.5 inch wide slot.
Thanks again!
The heighth and cross sectional area seem about right for the look I want.
What about square or slot ports, the only round ports i have(and would like to avoid buying more) are 1.5 dia x 4 length. I also have PVC, but i like the look of the slot at the base of the box, does that effect the design?
like a 4.5 inch wide slot.
Thanks again!
- Status
- Not open for further replies.