In a word, musical. I don't speak audiophile, and my ears are not golden, and I haven't done any measurements, so take what follows with several grains of salt; as always, YMMV.
Bass - don't go super deep (duh - 4" drivers) but the base seems tuneful and tight, and deeper than I had expected. No slam to speak of. 😀
Mid - a strong point for sure. Direct, immediate, clean.
Treble - my ears are not reliable enough for judgement in this area. Occasionally I feel they're a (very tiny) bit shrill, but I often feel that about real-life sounds as well, so this may just be accurate.
Imaging - lovely. Not artificially pin-point, but instruments have their space and stay there through pitch and volume changes. The soundstage definitely extends outside the speakers.
To sum up: I don't think these are the ultimate speaker - I'd like a bit more of the "braaap" that I hear from live sax, for example, and probably a bit more bass at some point (perhaps I should consider subwoofers after all, though if I did that then I might want smaller satellites - hmmm). But these are speakers that I can happily live with, most of their errors being those of omission.
I invite others who have heard them to chime in here (Daniel?).
Regards.
Aengus
An invitation
It occurs to me that it could be fun to have a number of opinions on the sound of these, since my descriptions are not terribly helpful. I would be happy to host a listening evening if any of you from Victoria (or further afield should you want to make the trip) wanted to come by, have a listen, and maybe even drink a beverage or two. Everyone could bring a record (or even a CD - I'm a tolerant man) and we could listen to a track or two from each of us.
Let me know (post here or PM) and I'll see if I can coordinate a time that works for everyone interested. If there's lots of interest, or difficulty with scheduling, we could even do a couple of evenings.
Regards.
Aengus
It occurs to me that it could be fun to have a number of opinions on the sound of these, since my descriptions are not terribly helpful. I would be happy to host a listening evening if any of you from Victoria (or further afield should you want to make the trip) wanted to come by, have a listen, and maybe even drink a beverage or two. Everyone could bring a record (or even a CD - I'm a tolerant man) and we could listen to a track or two from each of us.
Let me know (post here or PM) and I'll see if I can coordinate a time that works for everyone interested. If there's lots of interest, or difficulty with scheduling, we could even do a couple of evenings.
Regards.
Aengus
Aengus said:
I certainly thot they sounded outstanding. It was interesting to hear how the sound evolved as Aegus & Moray fine-tuned them (and then maxi-tuned them with the drivers out of my personal Fonkens)
I encourage anyone who can to take the opportunity to listen to these (and Aengus seems a connisuer(sp) of fine Scotch too 🙂)
dave
I do hope you know that your sacrifice does not go unappreciated; thank you again, Dave, for being a most generous host.
And that's one of the ways I spell it after partaking of the malt. 😀 😀 😀
Regards.
Aengus
Hi Nuconz
I got it from a local (to Western Canada) firm called PJ White (these guys); a quick web search seems to show that rubber-ply is their own name for it. It goes by a variety of other names, like "wiggle wood" and "wacky ply".
Google "bendable plywood" for some starter locations to search. Worth seeking out, I plan to eventually use it in building other items.
Regards.
Aengus
[edit: fixed my HTML]
Aengus said:
Hi Nuconz
I got it from a local (to Western Canada) firm called PJ White (these guys); a quick web search seems to show that rubber-ply is their own name for it. It goes by a variety of other names, like "wiggle wood" and "wacky ply".
Google "bendable plywood" for some starter locations to search. Worth seeking out, I plan to eventually use it in building other items.
Regards.
Aengus
[edit: fixed my HTML]
nothing at lowes or home depot on this. 84 lumber is checking into it.
thanks. it sounds really interesting.
What are you thinking of building with it? If it's something small, shipping might not be too outrageous if you find a web dealer...
Aengus said:
84 lumber has a vendor for this wiggle wood. it comes in 1/4 and 3/8 and costs $28/$42 respectively. the 3/8 offers barrel or columnar bending. the 1/4 only offers barrel bending.
i thought a curvy BiB would be quite nice. this would give a flat face with flat diagonal and curved rear on the base. wiggle wood glues/tacks into the face, diagonal, and base. nice and round at the back. fewer standing waves. very easy to work with too!
Sure would - be sure to post build photos.
Except for gluing up layers of it - it's so flexible it's hard not to get some voids. If you can, you might want to make a solid form to bend it on so you can staple the layers together (and into the form). This has the added benefit of hours of fun pulling the staples before gluing the next layer. 😀
Regards.
Aengus
For best chance at void free laminations with rubber ply try a vacuum bag and marine grade 2 part epoxy (aka UF109) glue. Be aware a sturdy form can easily take the best part of a day to construct, and of course there's the overnight curing of the glue.
Aengus said:
oops, right mate - indeed in some jurisdictions the UF adhesives are getting harder to source - but you get the picture. If you're looking for structural rigidity, this is not an application for white glue or contact cement.
Yeah, I've never worked with it but I hear it's not terribly good for you. As I understand it, its advantages are that it's as strong and as waterproof as epoxy but somewhat less brittle; but that it mostly gets used because it predates the introduction of epoxy.
I'd be glad to hear more, though (including whether those observations are right or wrong).
[offtopic]Work has been heavy, so haven't milled the padauk yet; this weekend is looking good, though.[/offtopic]
Regards.
Aengus
I'd be glad to hear more, though (including whether those observations are right or wrong).
[offtopic]Work has been heavy, so haven't milled the padauk yet; this weekend is looking good, though.[/offtopic]
Regards.
Aengus
Aengus said:
didn't plan on layers. a single 1/4" should do it nicely and result in a cabinet that is strong and light.
from what the 84 lumber rep. told me, this wiggle wood is an all wood product without perpendicular grain layers. outdoor carpenters glue should do the trick.
heck, i can build 2 speakers with a 1/2 sheet of whatever and about the same of the wiggle wood.
the BiB with a height of 48" gives about a 35 hz tuning, which is fine for mains. the lower octave and impact can be produced by a real good sub, which i'm waiting on a response for tuning a manifold cabinet to about 20 hz.
nuconz said:
hmm, it sounds like you have not used this or a similar material before
Light and stiff is certainly one approach to take with what is essentially a tuned resonant "enclosure", but it sounds like you're considering constructing an entire speaker cabinet from a single 1/4" layer.
If that's the case, any of the bendable plywoods I've ever seen would not provide enough glue surface area to fabricate joints with any long term structural stability.
Further, if you plan on tuning the enclosure to 35Hz or even an octave above, I think you could expect substantial panel resonances that could not easily tamed.
chrisb said:
are you familiar with the DCM Time Windows? what i propose is quite similar.
a curved surface has virtually no stress, one of the reasons for success of the sonotube for subwoofer enclosures.
3/4" ply, osb, or mdf for front, base, and the diagonal. the wiggle wood attaches to the front at the sides, diagonal from top front to diagonal end (almost at the base), and attaches to the bottom/base, curving at the back. very strong and light in comparison to using 3/4" for the entire cabinet with no curved back. the top of the BiB is open.
as for voids, this is the sole purpose of caulking! probably can't caulk the inside all the way down, so caulk will have to be applied to the outside.
the alternative is to use Luann and make one of those now popular low resonant enclosures that narrows from the front to the back. this way the Luann is glued to a rigid back of 3/4". still light.
nuconz said:
Chris used to sell them. So did i. They are a sonotube. I'd guess that the paper tube in the TimeWindow is stiffer and less resonant than a 1/4" of wiggle-wood. At least if it is like Chris used to build the curvy speakers he made.
dave
Well, FWIW, I much preferred the performance of the Spica SC50's that I owned in the early 80's to the DCM's, which shared several similarities of enclosure construction philosophy
Not a great performer in the extreme bottom end, but I dare say that John Bau hit an out of the park home run with these - of over 2 dozen different speaker systems I went through in the first 15 years (1970 - 1985) of my sickness (audiophilia nervosa retailius - an affliction infecting many young punks on dope in the trade) this is one of 2 pairs that I truly regret not keeping ( the other was the Dahlquist DQ10, a substantially more complicated design )
Indeed I remember an earlier series of cheap 6x9 car speaker rear deck enclosures with the brand name Kricket, that used a combination of resin impregnated cardboard and particle board.
Back to topic - your earlier posts suggested that you were contemplating construction with solely a single layer of relatively thin "bendable" plywood, some of which are quite simply not very stiff. It was that fabrication technique I would suggest needed reconsideration, but you have apparently already done so.
Sontotube and similar materials are composed of large numbers of paper impregnated under pressure with thermoset adhesives. Yes, very rigid and light loudspeaker enclosures can be achieved with the combination this material, thoughtful design and bracing.
So I apologize for the second guessing, best of luck, and keep us posted .
Not a great performer in the extreme bottom end, but I dare say that John Bau hit an out of the park home run with these - of over 2 dozen different speaker systems I went through in the first 15 years (1970 - 1985) of my sickness (audiophilia nervosa retailius - an affliction infecting many young punks on dope in the trade) this is one of 2 pairs that I truly regret not keeping ( the other was the Dahlquist DQ10, a substantially more complicated design )
Indeed I remember an earlier series of cheap 6x9 car speaker rear deck enclosures with the brand name Kricket, that used a combination of resin impregnated cardboard and particle board.
Back to topic - your earlier posts suggested that you were contemplating construction with solely a single layer of relatively thin "bendable" plywood, some of which are quite simply not very stiff. It was that fabrication technique I would suggest needed reconsideration, but you have apparently already done so.
Sontotube and similar materials are composed of large numbers of paper impregnated under pressure with thermoset adhesives. Yes, very rigid and light loudspeaker enclosures can be achieved with the combination this material, thoughtful design and bracing.
So I apologize for the second guessing, best of luck, and keep us posted .
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