Curt Campbell's Halcyon build thread

The Halcyons have a new home. Very nice having a much larger space to let them open up.
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Hello!

my Halcyons are up and running for a month now. I am very happy with them. Lost of bass and the alpairs perform very nicely: dynamic and open.

I am in the fine tuning process, yesterday I used them with an amp that has bass and treble knobs. My conclusion is that the bass is way louder than the Alpair driver (stuffing will not suffice). So I will reduce the value of R2021 resistor, it is at 8,2 ohms actually. Curt Campbell suggests reducing it (original drivers replaced by a close model). Values available for Mundorf M-resist Supreme are 6,8 and lower.

I would like to know how to calculate hearable output if I use 6,8 ohms instead.

Thanks for your help.
 
6sX7,

I spent 5 or 6 hours teasing. I have maybe one hour of stuffing still to do.

As far as I can see the Alpair plays too low. (I lower the bass and rise the treble and then the details are louder. I mean normal loud.

Tell me about the bass you have, is it quite refined. I mean you can differenciate the notes ? I feel I have deep one note bass.

Walter
 
Let's see if this link works. Here's where I re-teased, post #442. https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...cyon-build-thread.349255/page-23#post-6917768

Curt used polyfill whereas Madisound's kit comes with acoustuff. Not sure which you are working with. If acoustuff, it really has to be teased (per Planet10 and now my own experience).

There is some more info in the posts that follow #442. I wish I had made better notes. I did end up removing quite a bit of acoustuff. One note mentioned taking out 2 more pounds. Yes, pounds. I was weighing stuff out and listening. Looks like I might have ended up with 18oz in each speaker. My GF and I split up the teasing. Still took most of a day. Did it once and after conferring with some of Planet10's posts, re-teased again.


The bass I'm getting is very defined. No wooliness, no one-note-ness. @SRMcGee might be able to provide independent information as he was just over for a listening session. How big is your listening space and what are you driving the Halcyons with?
 
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Hello,
i must have acoustuf, it comes from Madisound.
My teasing results look as yours.
Removing some stuffing would be easy since the teasing is done. Did you fill everywhere or as stated in the plan ? If I would have done it as on plan, the stuffing would have been to be compacted, if you just push from the back as loose as possible it fills all the space.
I have 500 sq ft, I use a Naim Supernait 2 (80 watts of very good … stuf). The result is the same with an Harman Kardon AVR130. The HK has bass treble pots. It is quite obvious, after lowering the bass and raising the treble, that the Alpair does not play loud enough. I wonder if the crossover could have a mistakely assembled by Madisound. I remember not being able to see the ohm values on the MResist resistors because of the way they were soldered.

Thanks for your time.
Walter
 
I had no idea that Tom (6sX7) had been adjusting the volume of stuffing in his speakers and, as I've only been to his new place once (so far), I don't know what the impact of his efforts have wrought. But what I heard sounded very good -- the low end was coherent, clean and solid without being thick or overwhelming. Tom hasn't had the chance to play with room treatments of any kind and that may also affect things. But what I heard sounded very, very nice.

Regards.
 
...Removing some stuffing would be easy since the teasing is done. Did you fill everywhere or as stated in the plan ? If I would have done it as on plan, the stuffing would have been to be compacted, if you just push from the back as loose as possible it fills all the space.
I filled per Curt's plan. Less is more. Tease it out then only fill what will fit with it teased. Don't compact it. Don't try to use all that Madisound supplied. I found it was more than enough.

I wonder if the crossover could have a mistakely assembled by Madisound. I remember not being able to see the ohm values on the MResist resistors because of the way they were soldered.
Have you checked the polarity of the Alpairs? Definitely worth checking over the x-over boards again to make sure the assembly follows the schematic. If anything, some pictures here would get a double check from one of us.
 
Okay,

I have done some work !

I have a Radio Shack level meter and audio samples at various frequencies.

Data
1 kHz set to 70 db
From 31 Hz to 8 kHz the output is 13 db over to 4 db under.
Highest 83 db at 80 Hz
Lowest 66 db at 315 and 630 Hz.
From 63 to 200 Hz the output is 10 db lowder
From 250 to 800 Hz the average output is 68 db
From 1,25 kHz to 2,5 kHz I have 73 db
finally 3,15 to 4 kHz I have 70 db, for higher frequencies it goes lower

My conclusion is that I should let the Alpair play louder relative to the woofers. I need help to identify the resistor values since they are relatively expensive. Maybe a result showing from 63 to 200 Hz, an output 5 db louder would do. I always tought that electrice music (rock, blues, etc) sounds better it the mids/treble are a little lower relative to bass.

Thaughts
40 Hz and lower is percived very low level, even if the numbers are good: 31 Hz at 68 db !!! Maybe useful for the overall sound but very little perceived.
5 kHz and over missing in action for me, I am 65, this is life 🙁

Walter
 
I don't have the ability to simulate the circuit. Being a series x-over, it may not be as simple as popping in a lower value resistor. you're best bet in pursuing this course of action is to buy some cheap resistors and try them.

I don't think it is a x-over problem. Could be the circuit is incorrectly wired or a part gone astray, room interaction or an overstuffed line. Much of the other usual suspects haven't been ruled out. Given Curt's abilities, the consistent results of other Halcyon builders and Madisound supplied woofers have a 2dB lower sensitivity than the originals Curt designed for, I think there are other areas to investigate.

Have you been able to take pictures of the x-overs?
Have you been able to test polarity of all the drivers as they are hooked up?
Where are they placed in the room?
What is your room layout?
Are you testing them in the room or outside away from any reflective surfaces?
How much stuffing, weight-wise, did you use?
Do you have pictures of the teased material?

Also, it is recommended to get some 1" foam for the MarkAudio chamber vs. the thin stuff from Madisound. It made a difference to my ears.

Pictures are always helpful. I'll get your data plotted up tonight and see what the contour looks like.
 
6sX7,

1- Curt suggested trying lower value resistors, I will order some cheap ones and then if successfull, go back to Mundorf. Which ones do you have ?
2- I will take picture of the cross-overs and stuffing and check all polarities (sunday)
3- I will try to remove stuffing
4- Good to know many have succeeded
5- The room is 17 by 30, they are on a short wall fireing along the long wall
6- I could measure outside
7- I have used 80% of the pouch supplied for stuffing

I do have good imaging, probably the wireing is ok, but will check.
I finaly figured out I can experiment with unexpensive resistors ...

Thank you for your support,

Walter
 
Walter,

1. sandcast wirewound resistors from Madisound. (Mundorf are sitting in a box, now you have motivated me to get them out.)
2. Looking forward to the pics.
3. recommend starting with no stuffing, listen, stuff and repeat as needed. If you have a food scale, use it to parse out a bunch (maybe 4 or 8 oz increments) and add in those increments. When adding, don't pack it down. Keep it fluffy and give the fibers plenty of room to "breathe"
5. room is almost a 2:1 ratio. Might be a resonance problem. Can try moving the speakers around to see if it changes. The resistor change might do the trick but then they're tuned to that room. No biggy if you're not moving anytime soon and can always change back if needed. The joys of DIY!
6. - the outside measurement will help figure out 5.

On the polarity, was thinking polarity between the woofers and Alpair (opposed to left vs. right). X-over point is 400Hz. It is hard to test with the x-over in place as the cap will block DC (AA battery test). If there is an odd contour centered around 400Hz, would point to a summation (wiring) issue.

-tom