A beautiful driver for sure looks like was worth every penny. Voice Coil recently reviewed them again. They are still available to buy
Wasn’t there a mid range specific poly M15 CH at some point ?
Though I feel some of recent advances in simulation modelling has meant that stiff cones like aluminium have better geometry and features to reduce resonances that affected the Excel lines. Eg. SBA, KEF
We should do a petition or group buy on a
a Satori with metal cone, though I think people are happy with the Textreme
Minimum order quantity 250 to make it happen hehe.
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If you winned the lotery theyhave new ones at Seas...with graphite...blah.
Maybe "better" candidates : Kartesian Acoustics 5" which is a 4" with its little Sd. The Purifis mids. The Audiotechnology, the brandnews ScanSpeak Sauron eyes (lotteryneeded as well) and also their cheaper paper sandwich...
Maybe "better" candidates : Kartesian Acoustics 5" which is a 4" with its little Sd. The Purifis mids. The Audiotechnology, the brandnews ScanSpeak Sauron eyes (lotteryneeded as well) and also their cheaper paper sandwich...
They have been tested in the newest VoiceCoil Magazine.
The mid-range is absolute excellent (as expected), but the low frequency part not so much.
By Vance Dickason, VC testbench;
They claim 8.8mm cone excursion.
There seems to be quite some offset in the BL as well as the Kms.
Added is the distortion plot @ 94dB
If you want to read the whole article, subscribe to VC magazine.
To put this in contrast, the Dayton E150HE-44 does basically very similar for the low frequency part in terms of distortion, while having a lot more cone excursion. The mid-range isn't as good obviously.
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Yes I saw that and was unimpressed to be honest.
In July 2022, VC tested the decades old W15CH001 that @gainphile suggested
“ Displacement limiting numbers calculated by the Klippel analyzer for the SEAS W15CH001 were XBl @ 82% Bl=4.82mm and for XC @ 75%, Cms minimum was 5.1mm, which means that for the W15CH001, the Bl was the limiting factor for the 10% distortion criteria, but both number were beyond the 4mm physical Xmax of the driver, so definitely good performance here.”
I would also be interested because I would like to use that one too.
Many greetings,
Michael
Something happened imo : https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/current-best-5-midrange-driver.378212/post-6816661
Hey - I can tell you something that makes you explode within minutes 
Here we go :
1) all "good" drivers are equally good! (do not buy bad drivers)
2) distortion is no issue! (really!)
3) use them only in their intended ranges! (level/watt)
4) don't listen to speakers in 4m distance! (room reflections)
5) respect the studio level between 77 and 83dB for playback (avoiding quick fatigue) - to get max "resolution" ... (the magic ingreedient!)
6) the sound your ears are longing for is already embedded in the recording - do not hear things that not exists
7) use appropriate filtering for each driver/transducer - garbage in garbage out!
8) distortion is no issue at all - no one can tell if a driver is at -30 or -40THD during listening !!!
Well .. list could be extended but my time is limited , sorry!
Now please , lemme hear your Xplosions
Here we go :
1) all "good" drivers are equally good! (do not buy bad drivers)
2) distortion is no issue! (really!)
3) use them only in their intended ranges! (level/watt)
4) don't listen to speakers in 4m distance! (room reflections)
5) respect the studio level between 77 and 83dB for playback (avoiding quick fatigue) - to get max "resolution" ... (the magic ingreedient!)
6) the sound your ears are longing for is already embedded in the recording - do not hear things that not exists
7) use appropriate filtering for each driver/transducer - garbage in garbage out!
8) distortion is no issue at all - no one can tell if a driver is at -30 or -40THD during listening !!!
Well .. list could be extended but my time is limited , sorry!
Now please , lemme hear your Xplosions
Have you ever done the Klippel test regarding THD audibility?
I have which is when I learned that THD is what put me off many speakers. It became inaudible to me once THD was below 0.5% or -46dB. I did use my speakers instead of the recommended headphones.
YMMV because I seem to be the only one who gets annoyed by it. My family cannot tell a difference much earlier but then again I also removed the battery from our clock because I found the tsk tsk noise the jumping second hand made distracting when listening to music at neighbour-friendly levels.
I have which is when I learned that THD is what put me off many speakers. It became inaudible to me once THD was below 0.5% or -46dB. I did use my speakers instead of the recommended headphones.
YMMV because I seem to be the only one who gets annoyed by it. My family cannot tell a difference much earlier but then again I also removed the battery from our clock because I found the tsk tsk noise the jumping second hand made distracting when listening to music at neighbour-friendly levels.
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Sorry no Klippel hearing test (online?) by me ... but what conditions? Any kind of music? Too many variables I guess!
Distortion , in that negative sense , is natural ingredient in every piece of music , so why avoiding it! (if it adds to the music)
Choose your poison but wisely! (like Harrison Ford looking at the Holy Grail for saving his fathers life)
Distortion , in that negative sense , is natural ingredient in every piece of music , so why avoiding it! (if it adds to the music)
Choose your poison but wisely! (like Harrison Ford looking at the Holy Grail for saving his fathers life)
You didn't get a choice of music, it was Fast Car by Tracy Chapman.
The test itself was a double blind forced choice AB one.
That said the THD added to that piece of music was exactly the kind of artificial artifact that has always annoyed me especially when speakers get driven a little too hard. Which is quite a lot lower than most people think is acceptable.
The test itself was a double blind forced choice AB one.
That said the THD added to that piece of music was exactly the kind of artificial artifact that has always annoyed me especially when speakers get driven a little too hard. Which is quite a lot lower than most people think is acceptable.
That sounded to me like the test Earl Geddes (gedlee.com) offered many years back in time .. he offered 4 files for download , the undistorted and 3 with varying levels of distortion (self-generated but he did not explain how he did it) . So I downloaded the stuff burned it on CD and gave it a listen! (I had the Strathearn magnetostatic SLC III at that time) It was an orchestral piece with male singer (nice music) . What I heard was this : The 2nd piece(slightly distorted) was a bit off , when compared with piece 1 (the original) . I could not say what it was but it disturbs me . But piece 3 was shocking! Never heard such brutal distortions coming from a speaker! And piece 4 was a nightmare! Completely unlistenable , a table saw sounds nicer!
My suspicions those artificial distortions are sounding much more aggressive than those coming from a real speaker!
The point is - those companies need to sell you something therefore they are in need to serve you some stuff that cannot denied by any argument , but it is still a trick involved , they do not tell you the whole truth! (bending the truth to some degree)
You can judge it in a different way : If someone had not told you before something is wrong with the sound , you would not noticed it!
It may have to do with the quality of the recording - if it's high quality , errors are more prominent! So chossing the right test material is important! But what is the right test material
funny hobby!
My suspicions those artificial distortions are sounding much more aggressive than those coming from a real speaker!
The point is - those companies need to sell you something therefore they are in need to serve you some stuff that cannot denied by any argument , but it is still a trick involved , they do not tell you the whole truth! (bending the truth to some degree)
You can judge it in a different way : If someone had not told you before something is wrong with the sound , you would not noticed it!
It may have to do with the quality of the recording - if it's high quality , errors are more prominent! So chossing the right test material is important! But what is the right test material
funny hobby!
Klippel was not selling me anything. I guess the vast majority of those who did the test had never any intentions to buy measuring systems from them.
The other thing is I did notice THD my entire life, it is just after the test I knew exactly what it was that bothered me in most stereo systems to varying degrees. That said the distortion can come from the speakers or from clipping amps. The usual amp distortion measurement at 1% is way too high. The people who made my power amps and phono pre consider >0.03%THD as the onset of clipping.
As for 'low quality' recordings I noticed that the better my stereo system got the fewer of those I had. Now it is almost exclusively down to records which were overly compressed during the Loudness Wars the worst offender being Iggy's own remix/remastering of Raw Power. Unlike the David Bowie mixed original.
The other thing is I did notice THD my entire life, it is just after the test I knew exactly what it was that bothered me in most stereo systems to varying degrees. That said the distortion can come from the speakers or from clipping amps. The usual amp distortion measurement at 1% is way too high. The people who made my power amps and phono pre consider >0.03%THD as the onset of clipping.
As for 'low quality' recordings I noticed that the better my stereo system got the fewer of those I had. Now it is almost exclusively down to records which were overly compressed during the Loudness Wars the worst offender being Iggy's own remix/remastering of Raw Power. Unlike the David Bowie mixed original.