To agree or disagree prove of the pudding is to try it out Kay. Even changing those bi polar to another brand will affect the sound.
'Will' affect.
It 'will', will it? This has suddenly become an invariable constant without exception?
Bollocks. Total bollocks. If you want to mess about with components and ignore anything even vaguely relating to technical performance, go right ahead. You can even waste somebody else's time and money by advising them to do the same, in the hope that it might make some kind of difference. Assuming, that is, the original components are the cause of a given issue, which most of the time is not the case, or at best will cause a minor shift vis-à-vis those of equivalent value & design relative to rather more major factors (like frequency response, tweeter excursion &c.) But when it comes to making blanket statements like 'x "will" do something' -pack it in. It is completely incorrect to state something like that (an outright lie, actually) without any kind of caveat or contextualisation whatsoever.
It 'will', will it? This has suddenly become an invariable constant without exception?
Bollocks. Total bollocks. If you want to mess about with components and ignore anything even vaguely relating to technical performance, go right ahead. You can even waste somebody else's time and money by advising them to do the same, in the hope that it might make some kind of difference. Assuming, that is, the original components are the cause of a given issue, which most of the time is not the case, or at best will cause a minor shift vis-à-vis those of equivalent value & design relative to rather more major factors (like frequency response, tweeter excursion &c.) But when it comes to making blanket statements like 'x "will" do something' -pack it in. It is completely incorrect to state something like that (an outright lie, actually) without any kind of caveat or contextualisation whatsoever.
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The OP has already made his decisions, no matter how irrational they may be or appear to be. The apparent loss at trying to talk some sense into exchanging passive parts without understanding what is going on in the first place, is only apparent, hence not real. 🙂
Really. In every single case without exception.
That is, I'm afraid, a lie. Because it doesn't. I have done so on many occasions in which there was not the slightest difference in sound. QED. Now, would you like to explain why these differences that you state are audible in every single case without exception are not, in fact, audible in every single case without exception?
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A lie Scott ??? Think it's too strong a word to use. So are you saying that all capacitors, resistors, wires etc should all sound the same ?
Yes, I do call people liars when they state that changing a capacitor for an equivalent always makes an audible difference without exception. Because it does not always make an audible difference without exception. That is a fact. I've already noted that I've done so on many occasions when it has not made any audible difference at all. Perhaps, until this moment, you honestly believed that differences did always occur; if that is the case, then I gladly accept that you simply made an incorrect statement in good faith.
And no, if you care to read the above posts again, you will see that I do not regard all capacitors of the same value to have identical sonic characteristics. Differences can exist, and these can, sometimes (as in 'sometimes', not 'always without exception') make an audible difference. Assuming the filter is functioning as designed, this difference is however, at best minor compared to the dominating aspects of a loudspeaker's performance characteristics.
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Yes Scott at best minor but it does affect right ? Like you, you've designed many horn cabinets, will not the use of differing materials affect the sound ? To each his own, if your findings is what you say then so be it. Simple things like birch ply of the same thickness but with differing number of ply will affect the sound of the cabinet why so ?
Don't compare apples with oranges. We're talking about xover components here, especially capacitors.
Best regards!
Best regards!
No. At best minor in some cases. My issue was with the use of the word 'always', since in other cases there is no audible difference whatsoever between equivalent components of identical value.
New thoughts, actually very old but anyway, here we go!
Do all microphones sound the same? Do all phono cartridges sound the same? Do all loudspeaker drivers sound the same? Do all pianos sound the same? Do all violins sound the same? Can we PLEASE extend that to crossover components, including capacitors, resistors, inductors and even wiring?
I have PERSONAL experience of being able to pick out the signal from 10, 20 even 30 dB BELOW the noise floor! If I had $500,000 US worth of test equipment at my disposal; all the so called purists and skeptics would be sent packing with their tails between their legs!
Do all microphones sound the same? Do all phono cartridges sound the same? Do all loudspeaker drivers sound the same? Do all pianos sound the same? Do all violins sound the same? Can we PLEASE extend that to crossover components, including capacitors, resistors, inductors and even wiring?
I have PERSONAL experience of being able to pick out the signal from 10, 20 even 30 dB BELOW the noise floor! If I had $500,000 US worth of test equipment at my disposal; all the so called purists and skeptics would be sent packing with their tails between their legs!
Indeed they are old. Very.
Microphones do not have a 'sound' per se, since their role is effectively the inverse of a loudspeaker. Their differing electrical and mechanical characteristics can be and are manipulated to produce given results however. This is not exactly a startling revelation and very easily quantified in their base data.
No, they are an electromechanical device, with differing frequency responses, tracking behaviour, distortion performances &c., which also vary depending on use (including arm, deck, phonostage loading &c) and overall setup. This is hardly a startling revelation as shown in even the most basic data and information. Like an FR and distortion graph.
No, because they are an electromechanical device with differing on / off axis frequency, impedance responses, distortion behaviour, energy storage &c. All of which is well known, very basic and easily noted in the most straightforward measurements. There are other factors also, but these are the main ones.
No, because they are mechanical devices with disparate components of varying sizes and random innate construction (woods for e.g.) which vary within broad limits, these also being affected by climatic conditions (atmospheric pressure, humidity &c.)
No, for the same reasons as the above.
No, because assuming competent design and / or it was not deliberately intended to produce colouration (via resonance &c.) these arguments do not apply to such components in the audio band. It is not mysterious why, for example, a bipolar electrolytic might produce different results to a film cap of equivalent value if the ESRs are wildly different, and the transfer functions, crossover frequency, HF padding etc. vary as a result. That's why if bipolars are used their ESR should always be factored into a crossover design. Only a fool would suggest that major electrical variations, which in the case of capacitors tend to be between different types (e.g. electrolytic, film, PIO, film & foil etc.) rather than within sub-types, will not affect behaviour. Where there is relative consistency however (viz. caps of the same or similar basic types with very close baseline characteristics and proper mechanical design) major audible differences do not exist: there is no mechanism that allows this. Subtle differences can exist in certain circumstances, but this is inconsistent at best, and the critical word is 'subtle' once a reasonable qualitative design baseline has been established, i.e. the crossover functions as designed.
Not a unique statement. Perhaps you could point us toward the blind trials and papers in which this activity was documented as digging signals out of the noise floor is always interesting.
Please point to papers by those who have said access, revealing the profound differences in or near the audio band between components of very similar type and identical value.
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Actually, I am quite enjoying this and find it stimulating indeed. Yes, I am retired so I can ramble on all day.
Some of the processes and findings I know of are still classified to this very day which is why you have no papers or resources that you can reference. Suffice it to say; using the best possible labs with the best possible equipment you can test, experiment and discover things way beyond what may have never yet been published. For comparison sake; capacitors, resistors, inductors, etc. in the audio band used in loudspeaker crossovers are NOT, by FAR, the most important element or device. Again, they can and DO make a significant difference if you have the time to get really deep into it. However, this is a discussion about what could be or what might be as opposed to what many think is not important at all.
Some of the processes and findings I know of are still classified to this very day which is why you have no papers or resources that you can reference. Suffice it to say; using the best possible labs with the best possible equipment you can test, experiment and discover things way beyond what may have never yet been published. For comparison sake; capacitors, resistors, inductors, etc. in the audio band used in loudspeaker crossovers are NOT, by FAR, the most important element or device. Again, they can and DO make a significant difference if you have the time to get really deep into it. However, this is a discussion about what could be or what might be as opposed to what many think is not important at all.
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