I'm posing the question toward those who have completed a project already and would give their results at least 4 stars.
I'm looking for enclosure plans and a link to someone who sells the drivers in the mainland USA for a floor standing speaker with a Mark Audio driver.
It will be my first experience with a proper full-range speaker, and I'm intrigued by what little I have read about them so far, especially the commentary hovering around the Pearl Acoustics speakers. I'm not expecting performance to be quite at that level and although I could buy them outright, for me the fun is in the learning and experimental processes, and in building and finishing the enclosures myself. Gotta stay busy, otherwise retirement is just waiting for the grave, gnome-say'n?
Any advice?
I'm looking for enclosure plans and a link to someone who sells the drivers in the mainland USA for a floor standing speaker with a Mark Audio driver.
It will be my first experience with a proper full-range speaker, and I'm intrigued by what little I have read about them so far, especially the commentary hovering around the Pearl Acoustics speakers. I'm not expecting performance to be quite at that level and although I could buy them outright, for me the fun is in the learning and experimental processes, and in building and finishing the enclosures myself. Gotta stay busy, otherwise retirement is just waiting for the grave, gnome-say'n?
Any advice?
Last spring I completed a pair of Pensil 11 with Alpair 11MS drivers. Truth be told I was unhappy with the final sound. In just a few words I found the sound to be slow and thick. Bass is artificial sounding, like it's trying to produce the frequencies but is failing at a magic trick.
One caveat is that my ears are used to open baffle. Another listener (one who is used to listening to full enclosures) might hear the Pensil 11's and think they sound amazing.
But for my taste they were too ponderous.
One caveat is that my ears are used to open baffle. Another listener (one who is used to listening to full enclosures) might hear the Pensil 11's and think they sound amazing.
But for my taste they were too ponderous.
You can buy drivers from Madisound.com
Many plans are linked for each specific driver. The main Mark Audio website probably has the most complete box plan library. https://www.markaudio.com/
If you have the space in your listening room, FHXL would be pretty high up the list, but you'll need to contact Dave (@planet10) for the plans.
jeff
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I should have mentioned - I got my drivers from Madisound (excellent company) and I got my plans from Mark Audio's website.
HerzMeister,
Enjoy your retirement, and there are many projects on diyAudio to keep you busy (if you fancy) 🙂
You have probably seen the thread on building a DIY clone of the Pearl Acoustics Sibelius, and the drivers that member hondasnl used for the projects are the Mark Audio Alpair 10.2 (already discontinued) and the Alpair 10.3.
If I may ask a few questions:
1. What sort of musical genres do you enjoy?
2. How big is your listening room?
3. How loud do you usually listen to
Enjoy your retirement, and there are many projects on diyAudio to keep you busy (if you fancy) 🙂
You have probably seen the thread on building a DIY clone of the Pearl Acoustics Sibelius, and the drivers that member hondasnl used for the projects are the Mark Audio Alpair 10.2 (already discontinued) and the Alpair 10.3.
If I may ask a few questions:
1. What sort of musical genres do you enjoy?
2. How big is your listening room?
3. How loud do you usually listen to
zman01 -
I intend these speakers to be for more relaxing stuff. Classical, ambient, piano, vocal.
I will probably not use them in any large rooms. I know they will need to be handled gently with their little drivers.
I intend these speakers to be for more relaxing stuff. Classical, ambient, piano, vocal.
I will probably not use them in any large rooms. I know they will need to be handled gently with their little drivers.
HerzMeister,
If the music is not complex and does not have large dynamic swings, then a single wide-band (AKA full-range) driver with a cone size like the Alpair 10.x (or even slightly smaller) can give a satisfactory listening experience at moderate SPLs - how much satisfactory will depend on the listener's tastes, other equipment in the chain, room etc.
If the music is not complex and does not have large dynamic swings, then a single wide-band (AKA full-range) driver with a cone size like the Alpair 10.x (or even slightly smaller) can give a satisfactory listening experience at moderate SPLs - how much satisfactory will depend on the listener's tastes, other equipment in the chain, room etc.
I will say that CHP-90 is a great driver from Mark Audio.
CHP-90 give you a very nice sound.
Not to bright and you can sit an listning for hours without get tired.
CHP-90 give you a very nice sound.
Not to bright and you can sit an listning for hours without get tired.
CHP/CHR-90 get good marks, zeemz they are derived from A10p/A10.3/
For afdirst project i would suggest the CHN=110. Welll balance ed, and an inexpensive driver.
But there is no shortage of choice.
dave
For afdirst project i would suggest the CHN=110. Welll balance ed, and an inexpensive driver.
But there is no shortage of choice.
dave
Quarter-wave, frugel, Voigt, back-loaded horn, passive, etc. all suffer from slow bass - significant acoustic inertia. A simple vented box is the best from this point, Markaudio web site has excellent plans. A single driver speaker will work well only at very low to low listening level; at higher level bass will interfere with mids and highs. A second driver of the same kind (or other) for bass solves this problem. I am very pleased with my enclosure (1L sealed box for MAOP-7 inside 15L vented cabinet with SB Acoustics 4" ceramic woofer).
When you say 'acoustic inertia', do you mean group delay? Or something else? The audibility of GD actually depends on the design & the operating bandwidth; for instance, most MLTLs have only a slightly broader operating BW than most Helmholtz based vented boxes (if at all), and good ML Voigts (aka ML horns, single-tapped horns, TQWTs etc.) are usually only a little broader again. Bass horns operate over a wider BW, but only up to a point, and good examples have a rapid acoustic low-pass to avoid excess GD effects.
As far as AMD / FMD go -depends how loud you're listening, how far away, what headroom is required above the average & what level of control exists over the driver excursion; by & large you can't beat cubic capacity on this front, so if this is a priority, all other things being equal, the bigger the better -but since most of the time all other things aren't equal, it depends on the details of the drivers being compared.
As far as AMD / FMD go -depends how loud you're listening, how far away, what headroom is required above the average & what level of control exists over the driver excursion; by & large you can't beat cubic capacity on this front, so if this is a priority, all other things being equal, the bigger the better -but since most of the time all other things aren't equal, it depends on the details of the drivers being compared.
A simple sealed box, as a generalization, will have the best bass. Also the fewest degrees of freedom in terms of design. Hard to screw up. Second order roll-off.
But few suitable drivers available today.
A reflex tries to take advantage of the energy coming off the back of the driver, this creates greater group delay and a fourth order roll-off. ie trade-off greater SPL before roll-off but less output way down. More degrees of freedom, way more ways to screw up the box.
A quarter-wave box (all that you named) has even more degrees of freedom, and more ways to screw thingd up. A QW line can be anywhere between “similar” to a reflex (biut with greater extention by taking advantage of the quarter-0wave resonance) all thru the spectrum to near sealed(ie an aperiodic line). Roll-off more controllable, ranges from second order to forth order. ASlthou i have seen some evidence of even slower roll-off in a well-done aperiodic box.
Your assertions must be based on someone’s not really right design and completely untrue.
Every lloudspeaker is a significant set of compromises, choose yours.
I am certainly a fan/advocate of what happens with a good FR when you use it as midTweeter with bass helpers. But the compromise is more cost (way more often) and XO. Ours are often aperiodic midTL above an ML-TL.
By the way, all bass is slow, a function of the frequencies involved, fast happens higher up in frequency. What sser means is something else. Probably group delay, or just the woofer not designed well to change direction.
dave
But few suitable drivers available today.
A reflex tries to take advantage of the energy coming off the back of the driver, this creates greater group delay and a fourth order roll-off. ie trade-off greater SPL before roll-off but less output way down. More degrees of freedom, way more ways to screw up the box.
A quarter-wave box (all that you named) has even more degrees of freedom, and more ways to screw thingd up. A QW line can be anywhere between “similar” to a reflex (biut with greater extention by taking advantage of the quarter-0wave resonance) all thru the spectrum to near sealed(ie an aperiodic line). Roll-off more controllable, ranges from second order to forth order. ASlthou i have seen some evidence of even slower roll-off in a well-done aperiodic box.
Your assertions must be based on someone’s not really right design and completely untrue.
Every lloudspeaker is a significant set of compromises, choose yours.
I am certainly a fan/advocate of what happens with a good FR when you use it as midTweeter with bass helpers. But the compromise is more cost (way more often) and XO. Ours are often aperiodic midTL above an ML-TL.
By the way, all bass is slow, a function of the frequencies involved, fast happens higher up in frequency. What sser means is something else. Probably group delay, or just the woofer not designed well to change direction.
dave
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Acoustic inertia is time it takes for column of air or passive radiator to reach stationary vibrations after bass signal hits the driver and to come to standstill after the signal is turned off.
I built a pair of Pencil 10 cabs for a pair of Alpair 10P units a couple of months ago.
First time using full range drivers for me aswell. Previous amp/speakers were a Sony 550ES and pair of JBL L110 's so VERRRRRY different.
The Alpair 10p / pencil 10 combo is nice. Having got used to not wanting to ramp the volume knob all the time, I have got used to listening quieter than I did.
The Sony amp is way too powerful for the MA drivers so I tried a wiim amp. 65w class d. This sounds nice but I really wanted to try these with valves so I have bought (but not yet received) a 2nd hand CR Developments Kalypso EL84 tube amp. 15wpc I think.
Can't wait to try it.
I've attached a pic of the speakers.
First time using full range drivers for me aswell. Previous amp/speakers were a Sony 550ES and pair of JBL L110 's so VERRRRRY different.
The Alpair 10p / pencil 10 combo is nice. Having got used to not wanting to ramp the volume knob all the time, I have got used to listening quieter than I did.
The Sony amp is way too powerful for the MA drivers so I tried a wiim amp. 65w class d. This sounds nice but I really wanted to try these with valves so I have bought (but not yet received) a 2nd hand CR Developments Kalypso EL84 tube amp. 15wpc I think.
Can't wait to try it.
I've attached a pic of the speakers.
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Hardntobuild a PP EL84 amp that isn’t good.
12AX7s in the front, the tweaker in me wants to make that better.
dave
That I know; I assume you're talking about group delay though? Per the above, with certain exceptions most QW / TLs etc. are little different to Helmholtz based vented boxes on that front, while the audibility with (related) horns depends on the tuning / BW and the slope of the acoustic low pass. More potential for issues there, I agree, but it's not necessarily a given.
Well done Borats Baby, that's a nice and clean looking Pensil build you got there.