I guess if it really is an "all pass" filter, removing it form the circuit (I know not how) would not affect the remaining components FR at all right?
I'm going to guess I can leave everything in place and make two simple bypass jumpers somewhere right?
I'm going to guess I can leave everything in place and make two simple bypass jumpers somewhere right?
An allpass filter has flat frequency response but shapes the phase response. It is there for a reason, go ahead and take it out who knows if it will sound better or not. You're so determined to "fix" this design that I'm sure to your ears it will sound better no matter what.
Why don't you just put a cap to the tweeter and an inductor to the woofer, no wire the woofer directly it will be FASTER that way.
Why don't you just put a cap to the tweeter and an inductor to the woofer, no wire the woofer directly it will be FASTER that way.
Oh. you were talking about computers and now you seem lost on a simple
1/0 or Y/N problem. It's just a 5 min work with the soldering iron ( ON 😛 )
Just lift one side of the inductor and one leg of the cap from the PCB 😎
1/0 or Y/N problem. It's just a 5 min work with the soldering iron ( ON 😛 )
Just lift one side of the inductor and one leg of the cap from the PCB 😎
Yes. I've lost the point of the discussion - and also the schematic wasn't clear in my mind
of that all pass filter . Did you manage to get a second crossover and placed it, right ?
of that all pass filter . Did you manage to get a second crossover and placed it, right ?
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It's useful also in car, for the skilled ones that design passive crossovers.
Replaced by delay in DSP
Replaced by delay in DSP
Pete, you have been quite helpful, I'm sure you didn't mean that like it sounded. No modifications to have been made crossover points, no mods to slopes no mods to amplitudes have taken place here. I have only removed the tweeter protection and the odd load LCR circuit after verifying it did not affect FR. The only remaining mod I wish to test is the small delay line which is probably there because the speaker is a floor-stander as *you* have clued me into. In fact your posts have been very, very informative. I do know how to extrapolate info. Bear in mind I am no casual listener nor a golden ear audiophile. I am a professional whose mistakes, should I make them, will bear direct financial consequences. If I do something stupid, I will hear it and undo it, I don't play those personal mind games I'll leave that for "cable men" @ "Stereophile" and TAS. My man? Peter Aczel God bless him.
FYI I have several very fine reference speakers in several rooms. This is a very good idea for mixing, as opposed to mastering. Long and short, I will hear pretty quick if I goof.up and I would not change the basic nature
Yes I did sir, and they are already sounding very flat and clear in my main room where I am auditioning them. I have the crossovers out and exposed making crude but simple a/b tests extremely easy to to with ears, my familiar reference tracks, Fagan, Dianna Krall, Gino Vannelli, Zac Brown, Dave Mathews CLA mixes.....more... reffing with my own ears that I do trust, they have made my living after all, against the old 801's which are do for recap too though., REW which I semi understand and this little semi-crappy Behringer mic I have a the moment. As Pete and others have pointed out, B&W did simplify these crossovers even when retaining the same drivers at times.
That's fine. You can continue on keeping the crossover boards outside.
Better if suspended with rubber bands !
Another suggestion : even if the vocals and all the mix is fine to make your own judgements, the real point is to reproduce an orchestra.
Or even piano + violin ( Listz ).
There are some subtle nuances that can't find place in other kinds of music.
Better if suspended with rubber bands !
Another suggestion : even if the vocals and all the mix is fine to make your own judgements, the real point is to reproduce an orchestra.
Or even piano + violin ( Listz ).
There are some subtle nuances that can't find place in other kinds of music.
I guess I should point out it goes without saying that given what I have gleaned here, should I fail to conclusively verify that the couple of millisecond delay built in to the tweeter via the all pass phase network is *positively* there to compensate for the unit being designed as floor standing, but for some other reasons, it would surely be counter productive to remove it and therefore I will not remove it. I always assume that if even I see the obvious I being a novice here with no special insight, would insult the wise folks here if I were to state it, but perhaps I am mistaken.
Shhhh, don't tell anyone, but long ago I bought and modified a DCX2496 for just such trials. 😀
Oh Oh, A truly concerning and pertinent issue. If I do wind up bypassing the delay circuit for the tweeter who can say whether the polarity of the tweeter should be reversed or stay the same? Many times mids are reversed in three ways for the mechanical version of this circuit with the mid driver behind the others. I know this is the case in my Khorns and Sentry IIIs ?
Oh do trust me I have some great Telarc recordings around and the requsite B&W, Van Gelder, etc discs too, it's just that the majority of my work is ummm "pop", and dare I say the HH word? 😀 Seems a sacrilegious to mix Lil Boosie on B&Ws but I do. I get some tracks with him guesting directly from his ummm "home" once in a while... hahahahaha
So does this mean if I bypass the delay I should flip flop the wires on the tweeters or should I hang myself instead of trying to understand that schiit?
I love Rick Rubin and what he did for the 1st BBoyz album and...well...G'n'R ?
Now I'm versed more on Tchaikovsky 🙂
About the quadrature of a filter, it's important the phrase at the end : to mantain specific margins ( ?? )
at the stop band. That depends on the slope of the filter used; 1 st order ( single component in series , electrically talking )
gives 90° phase rotation; 2 nd order 180 ° ...etc. then the loudspeaker itself produces some phase shift in certain bands.
So it's a matter of optimizing the system
Now I'm versed more on Tchaikovsky 🙂
About the quadrature of a filter, it's important the phrase at the end : to mantain specific margins ( ?? )
at the stop band. That depends on the slope of the filter used; 1 st order ( single component in series , electrically talking )
gives 90° phase rotation; 2 nd order 180 ° ...etc. then the loudspeaker itself produces some phase shift in certain bands.
So it's a matter of optimizing the system
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Ughh yes...fascinating.... how could I have missed this......Oddly, after reading that I now feel the need to realign my chemo-mechanical motivational dynamic via the relocation of excess and depleted packets of bio- fuel. And flush as well.
BTW, as an aside here, I wonder if I should flips phase on the tweeters should I feel the need to eliminate the tiny delay circuit.
Yessss........Both speakers sound *identical* now, and oddly enough, I do think they sound a bit nicer above the vertical axis while on the floor. I wonder if this has anything to do with that delay?.......bwhaaahaaaahaaaaahaaa........just kidding. They might sound a db or two lower-mid-bass heavy above 100hz though even near field. I wonder if I'm hearing the removal of those LCR's? It did NOT show up at all in the warbles, probably it is just in the design and when I raise them in the other room it will go away.
Seriously, though very nice imaging, always did like the older tweeter in all B&W's instead of the later metal one, never heard the diamond one, and probably won't anyway.
Seriously, though very nice imaging, always did like the older tweeter in all B&W's instead of the later metal one, never heard the diamond one, and probably won't anyway.
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