Good day to you all,
I’ve done some research and a lot of lurking, wanted to do my homework before asking for qualified opinions … There are other forums out there, but this one seems to have more informed members …
I recently acquired a Sibelius clones, and the sound quality quite impressed me. I initially embarked on wanting to build an SB acoustics Sasandu with upgraded filters components, but the sound of these clones changed my mind.
Considering the cost of actual Sibelius and the cost of what goes into it (speaker cost and cabinet), and the fact that the price of these units has shot up dramatically, I was wondering if I can do (a lot) better. As I'm abroad, I'm also in a position to have cabinets made professionally for a low cost. My max budget for drivers is around 9-10K EUR (the present cost of a Sibelius).
My criterion for "good" speakers is hearing the same thing from speakers which I hear at a concert (mostly classical with a preference for piano concertos) - I'm well aware there is a dependency on sources there, my preference for sources is quality streaming.I have a Ambrahamsen V20 UP but will probably upgrade to the Eversolo Amp-F10 or an Advance Paris amp (model to be determined). My Cambridge Audio CXN I will probably upgrade to a an Eversolo DMPA10.
I’m far from a speaker building expert, so please indulge me if I’ve misread some information.
I've ruled out Voxativ because their prices are exorbitant. I've also ruled out electromagnetic speakers (Supravox, EMS) as overall opinion seems to be that "normal" speakers work just fine.
This has left me with the following short list, from “cheap” to “expensive”:
1. Supravox 215 2000 1519 EUR/unit
https://loudspeakerdatabase.com/SUPRAVOX/215_EXC
Nothing below 200, dip around 8K. Presumed to require a subwoofer.
2. Cube audio F10 Neo V2, 2400 EUR/unit
This is the start of a different price range - quite pricey.
https://www.cubeaudio.eu/cube-audio-f10-neo
Fairly good at the low end, high end dips a bit. Variations seem to be up to 20 dB (diagram is hard to read), things go up and down quite a bit.
In the forums these speaker have mixed reviews …
3. AER AER BD3 and BD3B (pair) for around 9500 EUR, BD2 and BD2B (pair) around 7200.
Different price range but narrowly within the budget ..
https://aer-loudspeakers.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/AER-Breitbandtreiber-BD-3-BD-3B.pdf
https://aer-loudspeakers.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/AER-Breitbandtreiber-BD-2-BD-2B.pdf
Pretty flat response, better in the lower frequencies (the B models are said to be better for this). Variations seem to be within the 10 dB range.
The “Jazz” cabinet looks nice, but I can’t find cabinet details - and how the transparent horn can be built/obtained is unkown.
So, with the goal of doing (a lot) better than Sibelius, my questions are:
1. Which speaker do you recommend I go for, and why.
2. Which cabinet design can you recommend/provide (I require a detailed plan so I can have it built) - in the case of AER I’m also interested in recommendations on how to build/obtain the horn.
3. Several speaker builders recommend woofers (including AER!). I’m therefore interested in woofer recommendations for the days I listen to 60s - 80s pop and disco (speaker, cabinet plans, plate amp recommendations - e.g. Hypex, Dayton, MiniDSP, Monacor …).
Thanks in advance,
Gunn
I’ve done some research and a lot of lurking, wanted to do my homework before asking for qualified opinions … There are other forums out there, but this one seems to have more informed members …
I recently acquired a Sibelius clones, and the sound quality quite impressed me. I initially embarked on wanting to build an SB acoustics Sasandu with upgraded filters components, but the sound of these clones changed my mind.
Considering the cost of actual Sibelius and the cost of what goes into it (speaker cost and cabinet), and the fact that the price of these units has shot up dramatically, I was wondering if I can do (a lot) better. As I'm abroad, I'm also in a position to have cabinets made professionally for a low cost. My max budget for drivers is around 9-10K EUR (the present cost of a Sibelius).
My criterion for "good" speakers is hearing the same thing from speakers which I hear at a concert (mostly classical with a preference for piano concertos) - I'm well aware there is a dependency on sources there, my preference for sources is quality streaming.I have a Ambrahamsen V20 UP but will probably upgrade to the Eversolo Amp-F10 or an Advance Paris amp (model to be determined). My Cambridge Audio CXN I will probably upgrade to a an Eversolo DMPA10.
I’m far from a speaker building expert, so please indulge me if I’ve misread some information.
I've ruled out Voxativ because their prices are exorbitant. I've also ruled out electromagnetic speakers (Supravox, EMS) as overall opinion seems to be that "normal" speakers work just fine.
This has left me with the following short list, from “cheap” to “expensive”:
1. Supravox 215 2000 1519 EUR/unit
https://loudspeakerdatabase.com/SUPRAVOX/215_EXC
Nothing below 200, dip around 8K. Presumed to require a subwoofer.
2. Cube audio F10 Neo V2, 2400 EUR/unit
This is the start of a different price range - quite pricey.
https://www.cubeaudio.eu/cube-audio-f10-neo
Fairly good at the low end, high end dips a bit. Variations seem to be up to 20 dB (diagram is hard to read), things go up and down quite a bit.
In the forums these speaker have mixed reviews …
3. AER AER BD3 and BD3B (pair) for around 9500 EUR, BD2 and BD2B (pair) around 7200.
Different price range but narrowly within the budget ..
https://aer-loudspeakers.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/AER-Breitbandtreiber-BD-3-BD-3B.pdf
https://aer-loudspeakers.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/AER-Breitbandtreiber-BD-2-BD-2B.pdf
Pretty flat response, better in the lower frequencies (the B models are said to be better for this). Variations seem to be within the 10 dB range.
The “Jazz” cabinet looks nice, but I can’t find cabinet details - and how the transparent horn can be built/obtained is unkown.
So, with the goal of doing (a lot) better than Sibelius, my questions are:
1. Which speaker do you recommend I go for, and why.
2. Which cabinet design can you recommend/provide (I require a detailed plan so I can have it built) - in the case of AER I’m also interested in recommendations on how to build/obtain the horn.
3. Several speaker builders recommend woofers (including AER!). I’m therefore interested in woofer recommendations for the days I listen to 60s - 80s pop and disco (speaker, cabinet plans, plate amp recommendations - e.g. Hypex, Dayton, MiniDSP, Monacor …).
Thanks in advance,
Gunn
I look forward to this. I don't remember anyone who has directly chosen such expensive drivers.
I have listened to the ones you have mentioned on Youtube. But you can't judge them fairly there, as the room and recording can vary.
I hope you get some more information from more people here.
I have listened to the ones you have mentioned on Youtube. But you can't judge them fairly there, as the room and recording can vary.
I hope you get some more information from more people here.
Last edited:
Sonido drivers if you want bigger drivers, Mark Audio or Fostex for smaller would be my choice. Your choice of amps is ok, but nothing more than ok. With single driver, no money will buy you live sound of real instruments, not even 9000 euro Aer.
About fifteen years ago my plan was to diy Thorsten's "Magnificat" consisting of Goodmans Axiom 80, helper woofer Axiom 201, and super-tweeter (Fostex T900A or some such). By the time I collected the pieces I had started a game design studio in Beijing and that took up all my time for many years.
Then during Covid I started diy in earnest and after some dozens of speaker experiments came up with a simple idea, reflector point-source "PrimeRadiant" series -- work in progress -- that looked back to pioneers Fletcher & Thuras et al. wideband/wide-dispersion 1934 Bell Labs....
"Audiophile" is a frowned-upon word on diyaudio but you might check out this thread:
Then during Covid I started diy in earnest and after some dozens of speaker experiments came up with a simple idea, reflector point-source "PrimeRadiant" series -- work in progress -- that looked back to pioneers Fletcher & Thuras et al. wideband/wide-dispersion 1934 Bell Labs....
"Audiophile" is a frowned-upon word on diyaudio but you might check out this thread:
Last edited:
Expensive drivers aside, most are good from Mark Audio. Maybe the best one is called Maop10.2. There is nothing to complain about when it comes to the sound.
The Alpair 10.3M is also a good driver.
Unfortunately, these two have been discontinued.
I like the Alpair 11MS. Although it screams a little louder (8000-12000) hz.
Then the CHP-90 is one that can compete with the best. It can actually sound very detailed and provide decent bass in the right box.
The Alpair 10.3M is also a good driver.
Unfortunately, these two have been discontinued.
I like the Alpair 11MS. Although it screams a little louder (8000-12000) hz.
Then the CHP-90 is one that can compete with the best. It can actually sound very detailed and provide decent bass in the right box.
My "Sibeliclone" has Mark Audio Alpair 10.3. I've considered Fostex but they were not particularly better. For the rest I fear your reply is off topic, i.e. not an answer to the questions as for the budget - it is what it is. As everyone else here, we are trying to get the most of the budget we have.
Hi Leif, I have the Alpairs in my clone (as per my previous reply). I'm not looking to go into that direction as it is what I already have. Brgds, G.
Ok, I see.
Do you like hornspeakers?
So you only want Cube, Supravox or Aer.
I dont know if someone have used them here, sorry.
Do you like hornspeakers?
So you only want Cube, Supravox or Aer.
I dont know if someone have used them here, sorry.
Last edited:
Hi Leif,
No particular like/disklike of horn speakers. They can be complex beasts to build though. If someone has a better suggestion than those drivers (or a qualified opinion about them) that is welcome ... As I said, what I'm looking for is an answer to the three questions ...
Kind regards,
G.
No particular like/disklike of horn speakers. They can be complex beasts to build though. If someone has a better suggestion than those drivers (or a qualified opinion about them) that is welcome ... As I said, what I'm looking for is an answer to the three questions ...
Kind regards,
G.
I understand...Im only starting mine diy voyage with only 3 speakers that I build, but also have lot of experience with hifi loudspeakers since I was selling them for 15 years. I had home or in my work space some really hot speakers like Utopias, B&W 80..., MA Platinum, Sonus Fabers, Acoustic Energy, Avalons and so on. Still I have two Mark Audio at home that I listen to and what I did was read this forum and decide what I want to try.
Your question is something I heard many times in HiFi shop, and that is maybe something for you to consider, because that is the place where you can see, hear and choose
I’d consider these before any of the other exotics mentioned. A growing number of members are getting Field Coils. The MA MAOPs embarass many much pricier drivers.
dave
For some genres of music a single driver used well can be very realistic. Piano concerto happens to be quite a challenge, obviously. (I would very much like to hear your relative assessment of "really hot speakers" though perhaps not in this thread/forum.)
The MAOP10.2 sounds nothing like the Alpair. Uncannily realistic in my Snowcone/Egg-goatee omni folded-concentric TL.
If the material you play stresses the FR you can consider a WAW, to retain the FR magic and add as much bottom as you can afford.
dave
dave
How the heck those dead, little ,oily , dripping sounding metal cones are so desirable ? It's hard to beat JBL LE8 on the budget.
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the comments. I've started to ponder if I go down the AER rabbit hole or not. Think I'll visit them in Germany to have a listen.
Mark Audio I know from my clones with Alpair 10.3. They are quite good which is why I started this thread. The Sonidos were unknown to me. I've had a look at it and the 200A looks interesting. The price seems to be around 200 EUR which is cheap (everything being relative). In your other post you suggested a WAW.
Considering the two options:
1. I can go for the Sonido cabinets shown on their site (Hungary is not that far, I will also go listen to them).
https://www.sonido.hu/adat_pdf/diy-sfr200-box.pdf ; for reference - not too clear on what is required for dampening though ...
In that case what would you recommend as Subwoofer (cabinet/driver/soundplate amp)?
2. For the WAW route, can you recommend/provide/sell a cabinet design for the Sonido 200A? Which woofer? Crossover?
Kind regards,
G.
Seems like your in the 5 1/4" to 6 1/2" area.
Would look at Tang Band wideband/fullrange or Coaxial for cleaner top end or 2 way with tweeter.
Maybe Tang Band Coaxial W6-2313
Or wideband W5-2143
There is many other offerings you could explore from the company.
just quick examples. I think the motor design and magnet sizes alone.
Stomp the typical plastic basket offerings.
Qts is usually pretty healthy .32 to .38
Would look at Tang Band wideband/fullrange or Coaxial for cleaner top end or 2 way with tweeter.
Maybe Tang Band Coaxial W6-2313
Or wideband W5-2143
There is many other offerings you could explore from the company.
just quick examples. I think the motor design and magnet sizes alone.
Stomp the typical plastic basket offerings.
Qts is usually pretty healthy .32 to .38
I get the limitations, playbacks suffer when listened too on PC's. But that is true of any recording so it comes down to a relative view.
That being the case, the brittleness of the vocals and the guitarists instrument is sublime, to my ears.