The RTZ replaces a DSC2.5 / Amanero that I have been using since around 2019. I typically use HQ Player to do on the fly conversion to DSD for music (44.1kHz WAV source files). To my ears, I thought that this setup was pretty good and it was much better than the previous Juli@ soundcard or the Behringer UMC404 that I still used, up until the RTZ (with the PCM2DSD FPGA DSD converter) for music/movies/games etc. Before that, I used a Micromega CD player for music.
Previous DSC2.5 build:
Previously, I just had to “slum it” for the AV stuff. This new DAC setup gives the chance of one decent DAC to do everything – even providing backing tracks with excellent sound quality to group singalongs to Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel! 😊
I’m far from a habitual DAC builder, but if it catches my eye and there are good reports from others, I’ll give it a go!
The RTZ with the reclocker had already proved itself, so it was only natural to go all in. Plus, I need both for music and AV stuff!
Depending upon your use requirements if you have no intention of separating the two halves of the pcb then you can save some money by reducing the number of u.fl connectors by 8. It's a small saving, offset by losing some flexibility if you did change plans later.
Hi Mark,
I've put the Crystek back in and gave it time to warm up,I've got to be honest it's now hard going back to it . The Crystek now reminds me of those early Bitstream CDP's , a sort of artificial flavour added . The SC Pure is better balanced with less digital glare , soundstage and depth better with the SC Pure. It makes it hard doing a blind test because the time required for the XO's to warm up which the SC Pure definitely needs . I have just fitted the NDK's so will see how they are after a warm up.
I've not ordered the SC Pure yet , I want to be sure first although must admit I'm not enjoying the Crysteks as much now . Dare I ask what else to try ?
Regards,
Leon
I've put the Crystek back in and gave it time to warm up,I've got to be honest it's now hard going back to it . The Crystek now reminds me of those early Bitstream CDP's , a sort of artificial flavour added . The SC Pure is better balanced with less digital glare , soundstage and depth better with the SC Pure. It makes it hard doing a blind test because the time required for the XO's to warm up which the SC Pure definitely needs . I have just fitted the NDK's so will see how they are after a warm up.
I've not ordered the SC Pure yet , I want to be sure first although must admit I'm not enjoying the Crysteks as much now . Dare I ask what else to try ?
Regards,
Leon
Hi Leon,
That seems about right to me. I couldn't willingly go back to less than the SC Pure clocks. Crystek or NDK SDA are just too distorted sounding in comparison. And, without trying to rub it in or anything, you are still at some disadvantage with that output stage. Its making things sound worse than would be ideal. In that regard I have some commercial transformers on order to try out, but they have been out of stock for awhile. I'm thinking of Jensen JT-11P-1. Maybe available to try towards the end of this month.
On the clock issue, the Acko clocks with my squaring board are are still what I use for the highest performance and most detailed sound. The holographic capability and openness puts them in another league above SC Pure. Yet SC Pure are good enough for most purposes; I don't mind going back to them even though something is lost. They don't sound bad. Can't say the same for Crystek.
Regards,
Mark
That seems about right to me. I couldn't willingly go back to less than the SC Pure clocks. Crystek or NDK SDA are just too distorted sounding in comparison. And, without trying to rub it in or anything, you are still at some disadvantage with that output stage. Its making things sound worse than would be ideal. In that regard I have some commercial transformers on order to try out, but they have been out of stock for awhile. I'm thinking of Jensen JT-11P-1. Maybe available to try towards the end of this month.
On the clock issue, the Acko clocks with my squaring board are are still what I use for the highest performance and most detailed sound. The holographic capability and openness puts them in another league above SC Pure. Yet SC Pure are good enough for most purposes; I don't mind going back to them even though something is lost. They don't sound bad. Can't say the same for Crystek.
Regards,
Mark
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I was going to post this earlier, but I waited until Leon responded first.
Thought I would share some feedback from first listen to the SC Pure crystals on the reclocker board. Usual “to my ears” disclaimers apply : - I had the SC Pure XOs on for about 8 hours continuously before I gave in and had to have a listen. Source was 44.1kHz WAV files, HQ Player on the fly DSD256 conversion.
There was a definite and obvious improvement over the Crystek XOs. The first thing I noticed was that the weight and solidity of everything was much better. Bass was certainly weightier, but also tighter. All instruments and voices now have even more space around them. The word “grip” also kept coming to mind. I listen to quite a bit of symphonic power metal (Nightwish) which can get demanding and easily descends into a mush when it gets intense. Not so here. Control over everything was maintained, whatever I threw at it. The extra grip and control also allows everything else to come through with greater clarity. Percussion instruments were also given a wider space to play in, giving more insight into the sound of each instrument and it’s timbre, decay etc.
Everything seems to be more coherent and “hangs” together better and more evenly if that makes sense.
I’m looking forward to seeing how running in of the SC Pures develops over time, but looks like the admittedly pricey gamble has paid off.
I’m chuffed to bits!
Thought I would share some feedback from first listen to the SC Pure crystals on the reclocker board. Usual “to my ears” disclaimers apply : - I had the SC Pure XOs on for about 8 hours continuously before I gave in and had to have a listen. Source was 44.1kHz WAV files, HQ Player on the fly DSD256 conversion.
There was a definite and obvious improvement over the Crystek XOs. The first thing I noticed was that the weight and solidity of everything was much better. Bass was certainly weightier, but also tighter. All instruments and voices now have even more space around them. The word “grip” also kept coming to mind. I listen to quite a bit of symphonic power metal (Nightwish) which can get demanding and easily descends into a mush when it gets intense. Not so here. Control over everything was maintained, whatever I threw at it. The extra grip and control also allows everything else to come through with greater clarity. Percussion instruments were also given a wider space to play in, giving more insight into the sound of each instrument and it’s timbre, decay etc.
Everything seems to be more coherent and “hangs” together better and more evenly if that makes sense.
I’m looking forward to seeing how running in of the SC Pures develops over time, but looks like the admittedly pricey gamble has paid off.
I’m chuffed to bits!
If you want, I would be willing to send an Andrea Mori 22MHz audio clock and a bare prototype squaring board. You would need to provide power supplies and finish populating the squaring board. Then you could feed the output of that into Cestrian's clock and reclocking board. Either solder a u.fl cable onto the bottom of Cestrian's board, or modify the board to add a u.fl connector on the bottom to interface with the squaring board. Result would be a little better than SC Pure, but probably less than half the way to Acko sound with the same squaring board (at least that's my subjective recollection).
Maybe a chance. You can maybe get a version of I2SoverUSB firmware that runs on external 22/24MHz clocks, which is also what the PCM2DSD board needs. Thus, the frequency doubler on the clock and reclocker board would need to have its time constant adjusted to double 11/12MHz clocks to 22/24MHz. Seems to me like that should be workable. Otherwise, there are still some (now EOL) PLL chips around that can produce 45/49MHz clock frequencies from 10/12MHz input clocks. There are newer PLL ICs too, but they may require I2C bus programming.
Sounds interesting Mark, might be worth a try although anythings going to be better than the Crystek , the NDK is also quite poor its been running a while now and sounds like treacle . I have another clock here thats 11.2896mhz I'd like to try too if doable I can also compare against the SC pure . Its Audiocom Super clock 4s , they use sine XO with squarer circuit. They are now discontinued but I used this in another unit a few years ago with great results .
If the I2SoverUSB firmware can be changed but the 11mhz Audiocom proves to be no better than the Crystek I'd go with either the SC Pure or Andrea Mori with Squarer . Its great being able to compare these things though , also the differences between all these XO's are audible
If the I2SoverUSB firmware can be changed but the 11mhz Audiocom proves to be no better than the Crystek I'd go with either the SC Pure or Andrea Mori with Squarer . Its great being able to compare these things though , also the differences between all these XO's are audible
Okay. Are you ready for the Andrea clock and squaring board now? If so, I can get things ready to ship. It kind of sounds like you might be at that point.
While it may be doable, the problem with it is that Marcel's RTZ dac, if reclocked, would be limited to not more than DSD128. That's because the reclocker has to to run at twice the BCLK/DSDCK frequency or higher. However, if you use MCLK for BCLK then you might be able to make it work at DSD256/44 if you get the DSD data timing right relative to MCLK .
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I bought one of these to try out on oscillator. The result is good, I like it. 👍
@Markw4
What is the purpose of the load resistor at the LT1763 output, one or a few oscillators are too little load for this regulator?
I learned about the MU caps for clock oscillators from @diyiggy.
The resistor is an old trick for tuning the sound of an IC voltage regulator. For two SC Pure clocks I use 100R Dale CMF. How does the trick work? The theory seems to be that the regulator pass transistor gain is dependent on the current through it. Thus adjusting the load current can affect the loop gain of the error amplifier inside the regulator. However it works, it does seem to work with LT1763 so I use it, and recommended it to Cestrian. The resistor value is found by trial and error to see if it can help (sometimes it does and other times it doesn't). Resistor value, if it helps at all, varies with the particular regulator type and its preexisting load.
There are some other tricks/techniques used to try to make my own clock and reclocking boards sound their best. Most of the rest of it is in the layout. Thinking about ground plane current flows and bypass cap current loops to try to minimize magnetic noise coupling at the ground plane level. Some of it may not be obvious from quick visual inspection, but I think it makes a difference so I use it for my own boards. When assisting Cestrian with this project, we talked about such ideas quite a bit. Hope its helping is all I can say.
The resistor is an old trick for tuning the sound of an IC voltage regulator. For two SC Pure clocks I use 100R Dale CMF. How does the trick work? The theory seems to be that the regulator pass transistor gain is dependent on the current through it. Thus adjusting the load current can affect the loop gain of the error amplifier inside the regulator. However it works, it does seem to work with LT1763 so I use it, and recommended it to Cestrian. The resistor value is found by trial and error to see if it can help (sometimes it does and other times it doesn't). Resistor value, if it helps at all, varies with the particular regulator type and its preexisting load.
There are some other tricks/techniques used to try to make my own clock and reclocking boards sound their best. Most of the rest of it is in the layout. Thinking about ground plane current flows and bypass cap current loops to try to minimize magnetic noise coupling at the ground plane level. Some of it may not be obvious from quick visual inspection, but I think it makes a difference so I use it for my own boards. When assisting Cestrian with this project, we talked about such ideas quite a bit. Hope its helping is all I can say.
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On the photos published in post #1 and #3 I can see that the C0G capacitors C1, C2 on Ian Canada's CCHD957 adapters are not soldered.
Does the same happens with the other side X7R capacitors (C3-C9) also?
What is the best practice from your experience, to use here?
It is very difficult to solder the X7R caps after the adapter assembly, the top side ones can be added later rather easily.
I have some spares, from another project, Panasonic 0805 size, 100pF, film caps, should I try them here?
Does the same happens with the other side X7R capacitors (C3-C9) also?
What is the best practice from your experience, to use here?
It is very difficult to solder the X7R caps after the adapter assembly, the top side ones can be added later rather easily.
I have some spares, from another project, Panasonic 0805 size, 100pF, film caps, should I try them here?