Konnichiwa,
Yes.
Good sound and a personal preference for good quality "industrial" grade parts over overpriced, underperforming audiophile approved stuff (It's a matter of record that I think that most BG Cap's completely suck, Os-Con's are unusable for audio and really, if you do need a quality cap you should use one based on performance - of course views differ) plus the fact that one tends to use what is a known quantity.
Oh yes, what originally attracted me to their Polycarbonate predecessors was such a phantastically low ESL & ESR that little else readily available at the time could touch them.
Sayonara
yldouright said:
Yes.
yldouright said:
Good sound and a personal preference for good quality "industrial" grade parts over overpriced, underperforming audiophile approved stuff (It's a matter of record that I think that most BG Cap's completely suck, Os-Con's are unusable for audio and really, if you do need a quality cap you should use one based on performance - of course views differ) plus the fact that one tends to use what is a known quantity.
Oh yes, what originally attracted me to their Polycarbonate predecessors was such a phantastically low ESL & ESR that little else readily available at the time could touch them.
Sayonara
Thorsten
Well, if I am to go by what I've read on this forum, your opinion on the Black Gates is in the minority, that is not to say you are incorrect in your judgement. Many times, there are more sheep than lions 🙂
So, the most important characteristic for good audio in this application is to have the smallest possible ESR and ESL numbers. Some of the latest gel type hybrid caps I've been reading about have fantastically low ESR numbers but the ESL specs are less obtainable. If we assume that these gel caps have lower resonant frequencies and favor the ESR spec to the detriment of the ESL spec, how damaging is high ESL in this application. What kind of ESL value is still acceptable in that cap according to your modeling on a 24V battery supply? Does anything change on a 12V supply?
Well, if I am to go by what I've read on this forum, your opinion on the Black Gates is in the minority, that is not to say you are incorrect in your judgement. Many times, there are more sheep than lions 🙂
So, the most important characteristic for good audio in this application is to have the smallest possible ESR and ESL numbers. Some of the latest gel type hybrid caps I've been reading about have fantastically low ESR numbers but the ESL specs are less obtainable. If we assume that these gel caps have lower resonant frequencies and favor the ESR spec to the detriment of the ESL spec, how damaging is high ESL in this application. What kind of ESL value is still acceptable in that cap according to your modeling on a 24V battery supply? Does anything change on a 12V supply?
I'm waiting for my FTcap caps and they have the fallowing specs:
- 80V - 33,000nF - 75x100mm - 12 ESR - 17 ESRmax
It's the GM (HIFI) series from FTcap.
Anyone knows this caps ? They have good performance ?
Ps: I will use this ones because I will have them for free
- 80V - 33,000nF - 75x100mm - 12 ESR - 17 ESRmax
It's the GM (HIFI) series from FTcap.
Anyone knows this caps ? They have good performance ?
Ps: I will use this ones because I will have them for free
janneman said:
No, why comment snubbers on a thread dedicated to comments on the snubber topic? kind of stupid idea right?
I belive you sought indipendent statements on the audible effects of the "snubbed PS"?
i'v had them, the spontanious kind. it doesent get more "blind test"ing than that. he didn't even know i had done anything with my amp.
pinkmouse said:
Unfortunate words? maby, ther were typo's..
though this is the impression this thread leaves one with.
but offcource, i won't be able to take any measurements for quite a while yet, as my project (amp) isn't due for delivery in another 5 months, and measurements and dokumentation is put out to the last two months.
oh well, i'l stop my whining, and live happily with my ignorance and delutions.
pinkmouse said:
No, it's not.
pinkmouse said:
If you guys don't have the confidence to listen and evaluate for yourselves, then ask for a second oppinion.
What I can't believe is to open a thread reporting something that I was already sure it was a big improvement and months later still these hillarious discussions about blind tests and unsecure, unexperienced, non-methodic listeners.
pinkmouse said:
Curious, because if you follow the schematic and do what it says there, the improvement is clear.
As I did on one of my amps: an OPA548.
Maby it's a question of ancilliaries and test conditions.
Because of all this THD, I will always find some other forum to post my findings, IF I continue posting them.
carlosfm said:Because of all this THD, I will always find some other forum to post my findings, IF I continue posting them.
That's blackmail! Or in this context, blackgatemail!
carlosfm
I have read many of your posts and have even referenced them on some of my other posts so I shouldn't have to say that I respect your opinions and your ear but I don't think janneman is being unreasonable here. All he is saying is that he would like more evidence before he accepts your suggestions. Joseph has put us on the right track with his tests and JockoHomo has hinted at some other things we should look at but many of us on the sidelines would rather wait to see some stronger evidence of this improvement, electrical or otherwise. Please don't take any of our cautiousness or pessimism personally. I for one, sincerely value your input but would rather understand more fully why the snubber is so effective here before implementing it. There may be even better combinations of values or parts out there if we bother to look for and understand them.
I have read many of your posts and have even referenced them on some of my other posts so I shouldn't have to say that I respect your opinions and your ear but I don't think janneman is being unreasonable here. All he is saying is that he would like more evidence before he accepts your suggestions. Joseph has put us on the right track with his tests and JockoHomo has hinted at some other things we should look at but many of us on the sidelines would rather wait to see some stronger evidence of this improvement, electrical or otherwise. Please don't take any of our cautiousness or pessimism personally. I for one, sincerely value your input but would rather understand more fully why the snubber is so effective here before implementing it. There may be even better combinations of values or parts out there if we bother to look for and understand them.
Carlos, don't be so defensive. 🙂
I want you to keep experimenting with GCs, and I want you to keep reporting results.
I have listened to one variant and found no change. So what. I will try it on other amps and see if it makes a difference. I am doing exactly what you want me to so why are you getting upset?
I want you to keep experimenting with GCs, and I want you to keep reporting results.
I have listened to one variant and found no change. So what. I will try it on other amps and see if it makes a difference. I am doing exactly what you want me to so why are you getting upset?
demogorgon said:
Marius,
You're unreasonable now. First you blame me for "stomping" on snubbers. Then, if I point out that I didn't, you say I'm stupid for NOT commenting on snubbers.
Jan Didden
Every generations of technicians in audio industry was deaf donkeys - E = mc sqr is equal 1R*M1, how simple ...
janneman said:
Oh, dont be so dramatic Jan!
I pointed the gun not only at you for stomping the snubber, in fact your the one in "opposition" that makes the most sense.
and not stomping at the snubbers, but what we have to present you with of "proof". i can understand your point of view bacause i share it, but i did try, and it did help quite a lot.
so you should try theese 4 caps and 4 resistors too. not just keep telling us to prove it's effects when we dont have the equipment to do so. (yet)
As for you understanding it the way that YOU were stupid, you are getting me wrong again. the idea of replying to everything else but what's on topic is a bad idea. this is a commonly shared thought. if you see the sarcasm you should see altso that it is the idea and not you that is stupid.
i actually have come to respect you and like your humor.
-marius
Upupa Epops said:
Surely this excludes you czecs, as you guys have invented everything, including the wheel.
Carlos,
With the exception of a minor few here, this thread is working towards identifying and understanding the mechanism of what you are observing. You should be flattered that everyone has taken your reports so seriously as to discuss and invetigate them in such depth. If no one believed that your idea had merit I doubt anyone would bother with the effort that has been seen in this thread.
Cheers,
With the exception of a minor few here, this thread is working towards identifying and understanding the mechanism of what you are observing. You should be flattered that everyone has taken your reports so seriously as to discuss and invetigate them in such depth. If no one believed that your idea had merit I doubt anyone would bother with the effort that has been seen in this thread.
Cheers,
metalman said:
Yes, but do I always have to hear that I'm biased because I made it, that I need a blind test, that I'm deaf and there may be really no difference?
Is this discussing?
Tens of pages with this???!
The best explanation I received yesterday in my PM by Fred Dieckmann, but I won't post because it's a private e-mail.
Anyway, even he will recognize that as much theory, explanation, maths and measurements that may be put into this or any other design, in the end what counts is: does it sound good?
Yes, because I suppose we are talking about audio?
yldouright said:
simple mod to do and to listen with!
all the wild talk just eats to much time! It seems to me those trying to explain are the one making wild guesses (opinions). I am glad that even Joseph K who presented something on the osciloscope admit such display do not explain any as to the effect of snubbered PSU to GC.
Now here is one to wait for good explanation??? - I would suggest go back to Nat semi and ask them full disclosure of what's inside LM amps than the mere equivalent circuit shown. Otherwise, such initiative to provide answer will still be another wilder opinion.
Truly, the more you read, the less you know ... like this thread.
I followed DIYers when the reg PSU was reported. Now I followed again on the snubd PSU. You are very good at it Carlos. That's why I have maximum enjoyment of my GC on every mod that is reasonable (cost effective and easy). Cheers.
But dont expect too much talks to die down - or else they dont have anything to post at all since they dont work (test) at all.
aHobbit
I don't think there was anything wild about what I posted. We understand carlosfm has found a means to improve the sound of his amp with his snubber and others claim to have found the same result when they implemented it on their amps but even carlosfm would not say that no other combination of parts and values would sound better. I for one, am here to learn and understand why things work well as much as what will work well.
carlosfm
Would you please ask Fred Dieckmann if he would allow you to disclose his speculations? I think many of us would like him to sound in even if it were ex parte.
I don't think there was anything wild about what I posted. We understand carlosfm has found a means to improve the sound of his amp with his snubber and others claim to have found the same result when they implemented it on their amps but even carlosfm would not say that no other combination of parts and values would sound better. I for one, am here to learn and understand why things work well as much as what will work well.
carlosfm
Would you please ask Fred Dieckmann if he would allow you to disclose his speculations? I think many of us would like him to sound in even if it were ex parte.
I don't know why I missed this on page one of this thread. Kudos to jackinnj. He provided a post I just read which may enlighten us further.
He also provides us with some links to study with formulas for determining the optimum values for the snubber. Will new values sound better than what carlosfm found with his own ear? I don't know but I think its wortha look.
yldouright said:
Hi yldouright!
I meant no offense for you sir. In fact you are right.
I did not say you post wild guesses. You are one of those WAITING for it - probably like me. But I tested it regardless whether such thing can be explained or not in this thread.
IMHO, at this point, the explanation of Thorsten is the closest - closest because he just make good estimated values of inductance per cap - Joseph K displays are almost at it using his own value/brand of caps - Carlos snubber values suit the actual L value of caps installed in his PSU.
Will said:
Specifically what did you do?
Did you replace all the caps before the reguator with the carlosfm "unregulated PSU for power amplifiers" components?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=534018&stamp=1103139431
Did you use 100uF and 100nF at the chip pins?
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