I know, but it gets tougher to recone them with all these new fancy montage methods
Also the 9600c has a couple of more dB's in the lowest octave (compared to other drivers with the same load) and that is not just a matter of lower compression. But you had to see those faces from RCF guys at the Frankfurt Sound+light Messe 
Oh, I foresee some troubles here and there. I remember the problems a few SPH-450TC with a few kW's could do to a Pub's system ceiling and that was 15 years agoSounds like a distro-only set-up
Epa, I need to correct myself because I thought the EAW 850 was loaded with RCF L18P300 or the EAW 850z with 18Sound 18LW1400. But my colleague (I thought I was the only one with ridiculous hours) says the latest version is filled with B&C 18NW100’s. In that case the 18Sound 18LW2400 is indeed not much of an improvement. Looks like I'm running behind huh 
The 18lw2400 is on sale for 330 shipped. I'll go with two of those each in a TH18 box braced very well made with good ply and I'll use the xti4000 to power. I'll see how that works for me for the time being.
I only see the 8 ohm version listed on the site but on 18sound's site they list a 4 and 8 ohm version. I'll call them and see Whst they say.
hi djimEpa, I need to correct myself because I thought the EAW 850 was loaded with RCF L18P300 or the EAW 850z with 18Sound 18LW1400. But my colleague (I thought I was the only one with ridiculous hours) says the latest version is filled with B&C 18NW100’s. In that case the 18Sound 18LW2400 is indeed not much of an improvement. Looks like I'm running behind huh
i think the set is old (not sure how old).
anyway the decision was already made for the 9600
so we wil stick to that.
i once felt a driver magnet who was destroyed ,and it was not even warm.
it was taken out right after the cone was teared.
i think it got only 600 watts .
of course a 9600 @ 3 kw is a different story.
how warm, in therms of temperatures,you think wil it get?
in my sym @ 1000 watts excursion is 14mm @1800 watt is 20 mm@ 3600 watt is 28 mm(sine waves)
if i understand you correctly,you advice against a throatchamber in a th?
the advantage i see (in moddeling not from experiance)
in some case it takes away uneven loading from the cone.
it introduces a dip just above the pasband wich might help eliminate some harmonics.
the horn path becomes shorter.
grtz erik
Hi Erik,
It is definitely the best 18” PA driver on the market in my opinion. Just wondering why they can’t deliver before august. Probably one of the big companies bought the first line.
About the Xmax, you forgot to involve the pwr comp figures. Also single sine waves are easier to generate for a driver than (complex) music signals. If the 9600c is put in a basreflex cab with Fb above the Fs of the driver, at Xmax it is suffering from at least 2.2dB (2.2dB = 1.66 x pwr).
1.8kW x 1.66 = 2.988 kW
That means more then 1kW is generated into heat besides the normal heat that is generated by the driver. Maybe that gives an idea about temps.
If you want to drive that loudspeaker to the max (Xvar = 50%BL), which is about 18mm, it suffers from about 4.4dB power compression (= 2.77 x pwr)
3.6kW x 2.77 = 10kW
That’s why the 9600c is a good balanced driver. You see that the AES power ratings and peak power are corresponding with the excursion. Even the 10kW peaks fall within the safe excursion limits.
Now back to your design. Your stated 1000W results in 14mm excursion (which is Xmax) in your design. This means your compression room forces the driver to reach the Xmax with less power (56% of 1.8kW) so that means more or less the driver suffers from 2.2dB x 0.56 = 1.23dB pwr comp.
1kW x 1.33 = 1330Watt
But there is more to the story. The thermal power compression may be lower but the driver still faces the same dynamic compression figures (which are coupled to the mechanics of the system). That means the 1.33dB pwr comp figure from earlier is on the low side. Probably it will be more in the direction of 1.8dB. In that case I expect you will need about 1500 watts to reach Xmax in your design.
So, that is 500Watts that is directly transformed into heat + the normal heat of the of the driver. Under normal circumstances this driver can easily cope with such temperatures but since the driver is covered by the compression room there is almost no airflow possible. If you are going to feed it +/- 3kW to reach Xvar you might end in the danger zone of frying the driver.
The 9600c is an NEO magnet driver and NEO magnets don’t like very hot temperatures. In the first 9000 series the fan was an option. Trough better heat dissipation technologies (better airflow within the motor) 18Sound says it is not longer needed . But you can imagine if you put that driver in an almost closed and small volume environment this danger zone will be reached much earlier. Therefore I strongly advice you to mount the driver reversed and deal with the changes you need to make.
I hope this explains your question.
It is definitely the best 18” PA driver on the market in my opinion. Just wondering why they can’t deliver before august. Probably one of the big companies bought the first line.
About the Xmax, you forgot to involve the pwr comp figures. Also single sine waves are easier to generate for a driver than (complex) music signals. If the 9600c is put in a basreflex cab with Fb above the Fs of the driver, at Xmax it is suffering from at least 2.2dB (2.2dB = 1.66 x pwr).
1.8kW x 1.66 = 2.988 kW
That means more then 1kW is generated into heat besides the normal heat that is generated by the driver. Maybe that gives an idea about temps.
If you want to drive that loudspeaker to the max (Xvar = 50%BL), which is about 18mm, it suffers from about 4.4dB power compression (= 2.77 x pwr)
3.6kW x 2.77 = 10kW
That’s why the 9600c is a good balanced driver. You see that the AES power ratings and peak power are corresponding with the excursion. Even the 10kW peaks fall within the safe excursion limits.
Now back to your design. Your stated 1000W results in 14mm excursion (which is Xmax) in your design. This means your compression room forces the driver to reach the Xmax with less power (56% of 1.8kW) so that means more or less the driver suffers from 2.2dB x 0.56 = 1.23dB pwr comp.
1kW x 1.33 = 1330Watt
But there is more to the story. The thermal power compression may be lower but the driver still faces the same dynamic compression figures (which are coupled to the mechanics of the system). That means the 1.33dB pwr comp figure from earlier is on the low side. Probably it will be more in the direction of 1.8dB. In that case I expect you will need about 1500 watts to reach Xmax in your design.
So, that is 500Watts that is directly transformed into heat + the normal heat of the of the driver. Under normal circumstances this driver can easily cope with such temperatures but since the driver is covered by the compression room there is almost no airflow possible. If you are going to feed it +/- 3kW to reach Xvar you might end in the danger zone of frying the driver.
The 9600c is an NEO magnet driver and NEO magnets don’t like very hot temperatures. In the first 9000 series the fan was an option. Trough better heat dissipation technologies (better airflow within the motor) 18Sound says it is not longer needed . But you can imagine if you put that driver in an almost closed and small volume environment this danger zone will be reached much earlier. Therefore I strongly advice you to mount the driver reversed and deal with the changes you need to make.
I hope this explains your question.
Hi Martin,
The blue corner bracing can help with the first 180degree corner to optimise the pressure. More important, they will have a positive effect on the top panel to prevent panel-flex, so I would use them.
The 'hollow' part in the middle should have at least one bracing in the middle, preferable 2 positioned at 1/3 of the sidewalls (and of course fill those empty spaces up). The bracing in red can be bigger (if you cut out holes) but these are the places I would suggest as minimum.
Hi
I have sketched out the extra corner pieces to optimise the sizes for anyone who is interested in adding them. The rest of the dimensions are as posted in post 253 . This effecively shortens the path by a small amount, but makes the expansion a bit smoother. The biggest descrepancy is now adjacent to the driver, tapering from s2 to the first corner - Hi-lited as 2 X 13mm dims.
This could be packed, but I dont think it is worth messing with
Regards
Martin
Attachments
To be honest I think those 2x13mm can have more effect (positive or negative) to the LF response then all corner bracing together...The biggest descrepancy is now adjacent to the driver, tapering from s2 to the first corner - Hi-lited as 2 X 13mm dims. This could be packed, but I dont think it is worth messing with