Hi,
Is this link already mentioned?
http://www.venhaus1.com/diycatfivecables.html
or
Cat5
I have done it, there is a difference from solid copper.(monster)
Still wondering wich I like.
It seems it is more warm sounding.
Anybody tried it?
Remco Blankesteijn.
Is this link already mentioned?
http://www.venhaus1.com/diycatfivecables.html
or
Cat5
I have done it, there is a difference from solid copper.(monster)
Still wondering wich I like.
It seems it is more warm sounding.
Anybody tried it?
Remco Blankesteijn.
Re: Re: Re: building speaker cable
The characteristics for JR's cross-connected cables is fairly similar to what you get for good old RG-8, at 30 pf/ft and 75 nH/ft. I tried cross-connecting RG-8 as he proposed but I didn't like it much, so I just ran four RG-8 strands, all cores parallel and all shields parallel. I liked it on my system. Test on a friend's showed it was a bit darker than his cable, but it turned out the darkness was due to his other cable showing some glare in the higher frequencies (don't ask me the mechanism for this!). Imaging was fine, <speculation> perhaps because of less junk in the upper mids </speculation>.
All in all, it worked out nicely, and cheap too!
And in a pinch, you can use the cables to tow the car....
Francois.
jneutron said:
The characteristics for JR's cross-connected cables is fairly similar to what you get for good old RG-8, at 30 pf/ft and 75 nH/ft. I tried cross-connecting RG-8 as he proposed but I didn't like it much, so I just ran four RG-8 strands, all cores parallel and all shields parallel. I liked it on my system. Test on a friend's showed it was a bit darker than his cable, but it turned out the darkness was due to his other cable showing some glare in the higher frequencies (don't ask me the mechanism for this!). Imaging was fine, <speculation> perhaps because of less junk in the upper mids </speculation>.
All in all, it worked out nicely, and cheap too!
And in a pinch, you can use the cables to tow the car....
Francois.
blank527 said:
JMO but that way of doing it is far too much like hard work,
and defies common sense.
I experimented with all sorts of pairs and cable combinations
and found for my nominally 8 ohm speakers :
Single run not biwire.
3 x CAT5, all pairs in parallel.
I plaited them together, don't think it makes much difference
compared to a sheathing with twisting / parallel runs.
Looks the part though !.
MY experience is different you yours, its the most "integrated"
cable I heard with excellent precision but lacks bass "roundness",
its only downside compared to other cables I've tried.
But easily the best, so far............
🙂 sreten.
Hi,
I work in computer science, I have made a lot of tests with cable of speaker with cat 5 and cat 6, in various configurations, from 2 up to 12 cables for polarity + and - terminated with spades copper dressed gold.
I have compared with Kimber 8tc, kimber plays a lot but very better!
The cables with cat 5 and cat 6, miss at least an octave to the low frequencies and miss transparency and extension to the high frequencies, difference is great it is easily audible, it is not little thing.
It is not easy to make a good cable that plays balanced.
The differences among the cables exist, the high price of the cables is not justified.
The differences of the cables also interest and above all the to recreate some scene 3d, I have experimented a lot with cables of interconnection and speakers, some cables play similar
equal as answered in frequency but they propose a different three-dimensional scene.
To judge the sound of the cables is necessary to grant at least 3 requisite:
1) equipment able high resolution
2) answered in frequency speakers/linear environment and without exaltations to the low middle low frequencies and without exaltations to the high frequencies.
3) sensibility of listening = open mind = without preconceived = not to think about the measure that can explain/to justify what we are listening.
To try to build a cable can be amusing and instructive but hardly the final result will be superior / best to a good bought cable.
Valter
I work in computer science, I have made a lot of tests with cable of speaker with cat 5 and cat 6, in various configurations, from 2 up to 12 cables for polarity + and - terminated with spades copper dressed gold.
I have compared with Kimber 8tc, kimber plays a lot but very better!
The cables with cat 5 and cat 6, miss at least an octave to the low frequencies and miss transparency and extension to the high frequencies, difference is great it is easily audible, it is not little thing.
It is not easy to make a good cable that plays balanced.
The differences among the cables exist, the high price of the cables is not justified.
The differences of the cables also interest and above all the to recreate some scene 3d, I have experimented a lot with cables of interconnection and speakers, some cables play similar
equal as answered in frequency but they propose a different three-dimensional scene.
To judge the sound of the cables is necessary to grant at least 3 requisite:
1) equipment able high resolution
2) answered in frequency speakers/linear environment and without exaltations to the low middle low frequencies and without exaltations to the high frequencies.
3) sensibility of listening = open mind = without preconceived = not to think about the measure that can explain/to justify what we are listening.
To try to build a cable can be amusing and instructive but hardly the final result will be superior / best to a good bought cable.
Valter
my double braid cable
Final test results..
Inductance was between 16 nH per foot and 9.75 nH.. Meter resolution was the limiting factor..gonna work a new meter next week for better resolution..
Capacitance was 288 pf per foot. Dielectric was a 10 mil thick (.010 inch) tefzel heatshrink, DC 2.7.
Inductance is very low b-cause the inner conductor is a braid..so the overall coax does not have the self inductance component that is unavoidable with a center solid wire.
Cheers, John
Final test results..
Inductance was between 16 nH per foot and 9.75 nH.. Meter resolution was the limiting factor..gonna work a new meter next week for better resolution..
Capacitance was 288 pf per foot. Dielectric was a 10 mil thick (.010 inch) tefzel heatshrink, DC 2.7.
Inductance is very low b-cause the inner conductor is a braid..so the overall coax does not have the self inductance component that is unavoidable with a center solid wire.
Cheers, John
Attachments
Sy, you mentioned using outdoor extension cable as speaker cable. That sounds like something fun to try. All you do is just cut off the connectors, strip the wires, and hook them up to your speakers? What do you do with the other wire? Also, how does this sound different than regular speaker wire? Thanks
Dave
Dave
Re: one more thing
In order: yes, just cut off the plugs, strip the wire, attach the connectors of your choice (spade lugs, bananas, Neutrik, whatever) and off ya go. I generally pair up (i.e., run in parallel) two wires for one leg, and use the third wire for the other, which drops the loop resistance. It doesn't matter which two you choose to pair up. Don't get hung up in ignorant claims about symmetry or direction or whatever- this is AC.
As for sound, I wouldn't generalize. Try it for yourself, see what you think in your system and your room, then take the money you would have spent on some magic cables that defy the laws of physics and buy some CDs or records.
The bright orange color is really fun in a trailer-trash sort of way.
If you cut off the plugs, no danger whatever.
bonsai171 said:
In order: yes, just cut off the plugs, strip the wire, attach the connectors of your choice (spade lugs, bananas, Neutrik, whatever) and off ya go. I generally pair up (i.e., run in parallel) two wires for one leg, and use the third wire for the other, which drops the loop resistance. It doesn't matter which two you choose to pair up. Don't get hung up in ignorant claims about symmetry or direction or whatever- this is AC.
As for sound, I wouldn't generalize. Try it for yourself, see what you think in your system and your room, then take the money you would have spent on some magic cables that defy the laws of physics and buy some CDs or records.
The bright orange color is really fun in a trailer-trash sort of way.
bonsai171 said:
If you cut off the plugs, no danger whatever.
Re: my double braid cable
Hmm. The low inductance might derive from low cable impedance even though the parallel capacitance is high. The equation for coaxial cable impedance is Z = (138 / e^(1/2)) * log (D/d) where e is the dielectric constant between core and shield (1 for air), with D and d the inner diameter of the shield and the outer diameter of the core respectively. Since you wound the effective shield atop another shield with a thin layer of insulation, D/d would be fairly close to 1, ergo log(D/d) fairly close to 0.
Now recall that, modulo low resistance, for transmission lines Z = sqrt(L/C), so if Z is small then L is also small for a given capacitance.
I doubt whether have a center braid or solid core would much affect the series inductance, save by the effects of a different inner diameter.
Anyway, that's a way-cool cable despite my *****ing. Nice work!
Francois.
jneutron said:
Hmm. The low inductance might derive from low cable impedance even though the parallel capacitance is high. The equation for coaxial cable impedance is Z = (138 / e^(1/2)) * log (D/d) where e is the dielectric constant between core and shield (1 for air), with D and d the inner diameter of the shield and the outer diameter of the core respectively. Since you wound the effective shield atop another shield with a thin layer of insulation, D/d would be fairly close to 1, ergo log(D/d) fairly close to 0.
Now recall that, modulo low resistance, for transmission lines Z = sqrt(L/C), so if Z is small then L is also small for a given capacitance.
I doubt whether have a center braid or solid core would much affect the series inductance, save by the effects of a different inner diameter.
Anyway, that's a way-cool cable despite my *****ing. Nice work!
Francois.
Re: my double braid cable
By the way, your construction reminds me of Belden 9222. You might want to check that out.
Francois.
jneutron said:
By the way, your construction reminds me of Belden 9222. You might want to check that out.
Francois.
Kimber cables have always been a good yardstick for cable performance.
But you don't have to pay out a lot of money to enjoy the same type of performance. I did a lot of experimenting after reading about Kimber construction and found that by using different types of conductor, ie stranded and solid core to make up a single conductor, I also got the extended frequency response.
I have not yet tried pairing solid core with stranded CAT5 but that should be worth a listen.
As regards braiding, I am still not sure. It looks good but I am not sure if I can detect any difference in sound quality.
Hi,
for what I have experimented, the cables with cat5 and cat6 don't reach appreciable results, I would consider only them in comparison to commercial cables of the European value of 15~20 to the meter.
the cables with solid conductor have some positive characteristics, I have also tried the cable UBYTE the project you/he/she is published on TNT Audio
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ubyte2e.html
Ubyte has quality a lot of good, particularly the middle range is very smooth very clear, in general in comparison to the kimber 8tc lose something in extension to the low frequencies, I would say that ubyte draws near more to the kimber 4tc.
How general quality I prefer Ubyte to the cables cat5 and cat6. Valter
for what I have experimented, the cables with cat5 and cat6 don't reach appreciable results, I would consider only them in comparison to commercial cables of the European value of 15~20 to the meter.
the cables with solid conductor have some positive characteristics, I have also tried the cable UBYTE the project you/he/she is published on TNT Audio
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ubyte2e.html
Ubyte has quality a lot of good, particularly the middle range is very smooth very clear, in general in comparison to the kimber 8tc lose something in extension to the low frequencies, I would say that ubyte draws near more to the kimber 4tc.
How general quality I prefer Ubyte to the cables cat5 and cat6. Valter
Re: Re: my double braid cable
Thanks. But I'm posting to GET ""my *****ing""...IOW, the opinion of others.. so don't apologize...
Inductance is the measure of the amount of energy stored in the magnetic field as a result of current.. For any wire it is the sum of the internal energy stored by the internal inductance...and the external storage, which is the mag field outside the conductor.
The internal braid was used to remove the internal inductance..From Orstead's law, integration of the area inside of the braid shows zero inductance there, as there is no field, because there is no current. So, the internal inductance of the inner braid is zero., not .015 uH per foot, which is what all wires have at DC.
A coax has lower inductance because the outer braid produces a magnetic field which is opposite that of the internal conductor. If the fields are opposite polarity, as a coax typically is, the fields cancel. Since the outer braid does not have any field inside the cylinder, it cannot neutralize the field of the inner one between the conductors..ie, within the dielectric.
So, to minimize inductance of a coaxial construct...make the inner conductor a braid, or tube, to remove it's internal, .015 uH per foot inductance...minimize the spacing between the inner braid and the outer.
The characteristic inpedance of the overall will, as you point out, be dependent on both L and C, as will prop speed. But this cable experiment is designed first to minimize inductance at all cost (cost being dielectric withstanding between conductors). And then, after test verification of models by using various sizes and dielectrics, coming up with general equations for L and C and how they relate to the sizes of the conductors and the dielectric type and thickness.
I was pleasantly surprised at how incredibly low the final inductance was..
I'm gonna test dielectric withstanding for the cable, 1Kv being my test goal, then I'm gonna have an "audiophile" friend try them in his stereo..he claims he can hear the differences in cables, so I'll give it a whirl.
Cheers, John
DSP_Geek said:
Thanks. But I'm posting to GET ""my *****ing""...IOW, the opinion of others.. so don't apologize...
Inductance is the measure of the amount of energy stored in the magnetic field as a result of current.. For any wire it is the sum of the internal energy stored by the internal inductance...and the external storage, which is the mag field outside the conductor.
The internal braid was used to remove the internal inductance..From Orstead's law, integration of the area inside of the braid shows zero inductance there, as there is no field, because there is no current. So, the internal inductance of the inner braid is zero., not .015 uH per foot, which is what all wires have at DC.
A coax has lower inductance because the outer braid produces a magnetic field which is opposite that of the internal conductor. If the fields are opposite polarity, as a coax typically is, the fields cancel. Since the outer braid does not have any field inside the cylinder, it cannot neutralize the field of the inner one between the conductors..ie, within the dielectric.
So, to minimize inductance of a coaxial construct...make the inner conductor a braid, or tube, to remove it's internal, .015 uH per foot inductance...minimize the spacing between the inner braid and the outer.
The characteristic inpedance of the overall will, as you point out, be dependent on both L and C, as will prop speed. But this cable experiment is designed first to minimize inductance at all cost (cost being dielectric withstanding between conductors). And then, after test verification of models by using various sizes and dielectrics, coming up with general equations for L and C and how they relate to the sizes of the conductors and the dielectric type and thickness.
I was pleasantly surprised at how incredibly low the final inductance was..
I'm gonna test dielectric withstanding for the cable, 1Kv being my test goal, then I'm gonna have an "audiophile" friend try them in his stereo..he claims he can hear the differences in cables, so I'll give it a whirl.
Cheers, John
Re: Re: my double braid cable
Wow...did check it out..thanks.
Triaxial ..
inner shield :4.7 ohms per Kfoot
Outer shield:4.3 ohms per Kfoot.
both between 16 and 17 ga.
And cheap!! a 500 foot spool is only 110 dollars in the allied catalog. and 100 feet is 22 bucks..no price break there..
Gonna pick up some to measure..it would be another good data point.
9888 is even more interesting. inner wire is 11 guage..inner shield is 1.2 ohms (11 ga.), outer is 2.1 (13 ga.). But it is 717 dollars 500 foot..or 1.43 USD per foot..and it's half inch diameter.
Good thing is...you can pull it with 326 pounds tension (for those difficult home stereo apps...)
I'm not gonna buy 500 feet of that..that would be a group buy..and worth it only if it is an improvement..
Thanks again...
Cheers, John
DSP_Geek said:
Wow...did check it out..thanks.
Triaxial ..
inner shield :4.7 ohms per Kfoot
Outer shield:4.3 ohms per Kfoot.
both between 16 and 17 ga.
And cheap!! a 500 foot spool is only 110 dollars in the allied catalog. and 100 feet is 22 bucks..no price break there..
Gonna pick up some to measure..it would be another good data point.
9888 is even more interesting. inner wire is 11 guage..inner shield is 1.2 ohms (11 ga.), outer is 2.1 (13 ga.). But it is 717 dollars 500 foot..or 1.43 USD per foot..and it's half inch diameter.
Good thing is...you can pull it with 326 pounds tension (for those difficult home stereo apps...)
I'm not gonna buy 500 feet of that..that would be a group buy..and worth it only if it is an improvement..
Thanks again...
Cheers, John
wonderful orange power cable
Sy, thanks for the tip on the cable! I had some extra power cable around, so i gave it a shot last night. In my system, it has an incredibly clean sound- the mids and highs are really really nice, and the bass is very tight! Plus, the orange color and thick cable makes it look like very expensive cable too lol 😉 cheers!
Sy, thanks for the tip on the cable! I had some extra power cable around, so i gave it a shot last night. In my system, it has an incredibly clean sound- the mids and highs are really really nice, and the bass is very tight! Plus, the orange color and thick cable makes it look like very expensive cable too lol 😉 cheers!
Da5id4Vz said:
Ummm..do you mean in liquid helium cold? I don't know..
It says on the side...
"CAROLRCOOLCORDTM 12/3 SJTW OUTDOOR E-11368 W-8 (UL) - - C(UL)
I wasn't sure if "coolcord" meant cool colors, or cool outside temp..or, honkin-guage-so-not-so-hot-when-pushed...
Cheers, John
(OH well..so much for the HTML code..)
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