Here's two best-bang-for-the-buck ideas:
1. Ribbon cable: the stuff you use inside computers. By choosing how you parallel the strands, you can tune the relative values of L and C.
2. Outdoor extension cord (12/3): don't laugh. The big, thick orange stuff works great, but do cut the plugs off first so that no-one accidently plugs your speakers into that big 60Hz sine wave generator.
1. Ribbon cable: the stuff you use inside computers. By choosing how you parallel the strands, you can tune the relative values of L and C.
2. Outdoor extension cord (12/3): don't laugh. The big, thick orange stuff works great, but do cut the plugs off first so that no-one accidently plugs your speakers into that big 60Hz sine wave generator.
NO ,NO CAN DO!!!! You have to go to a high end audio store (appt. only) and buy $3000.00 cables that were made by virgins during the witching hour.
Of course the maker of the cables is laughing his butt off.
I once ran an A/B test with a friends $1500 cables with my rat shack 24 gage solid core Cu $5.00 cables(home made).
Couldnt hear any difference.Only difference was i had $1495.00 more than my friend to spend on toys.
ron
Of course the maker of the cables is laughing his butt off.
I once ran an A/B test with a friends $1500 cables with my rat shack 24 gage solid core Cu $5.00 cables(home made).
Couldnt hear any difference.Only difference was i had $1495.00 more than my friend to spend on toys.
ron
this company sells very cheap rca and speaker cable that i have found to work very well.
http://www.michaelgreenaudio.com/catalog/index_specialty.htm#
the link is acting funny.
but the cables and interconnects are nice for the money.
i have also found monster cable xln series cables to work without flaw.
i know the 40,000.00 per 8 foot set ,cables are slightly over priced, but i sure would like to try a set.
http://www.transparentcable.com/images/news/Opus_MM_family_310x200.jpg
http://www.michaelgreenaudio.com/catalog/index_specialty.htm#
the link is acting funny.
but the cables and interconnects are nice for the money.
i have also found monster cable xln series cables to work without flaw.
i know the 40,000.00 per 8 foot set ,cables are slightly over priced, but i sure would like to try a set.
http://www.transparentcable.com/images/news/Opus_MM_family_310x200.jpg
Ive always had a taste for 14/2 zip chord. My current spool is white from Carol Cable. Id use 12/2 heater chord except its been getting tough to find.
I like SY's 12/3 recommendation, but does that mean you need GFI speaker protection?
10/2 SJ cable usually needs to be special ordered and costs significantly more.
There are some good articles creeping around here about braiding cat-5 network cable, and a nice article about using RG-6 buy a guy named Guido Tent (sorry if I botched the spelling).
I think Peter Daniel ran a thread a while back about using copper foil harvested from rolled inductors.
After messing around with that stuff for a while look up an old article on speaker cable buy a guy named Nelson Pass.
Have fun; occasionally doubt your own perceptions and beliefs, but mostly TRUST YOUR OWN PERCEPTIONS.
Oh yah, have fun too.
I like SY's 12/3 recommendation, but does that mean you need GFI speaker protection?
10/2 SJ cable usually needs to be special ordered and costs significantly more.
There are some good articles creeping around here about braiding cat-5 network cable, and a nice article about using RG-6 buy a guy named Guido Tent (sorry if I botched the spelling).
I think Peter Daniel ran a thread a while back about using copper foil harvested from rolled inductors.
After messing around with that stuff for a while look up an old article on speaker cable buy a guy named Nelson Pass.
Have fun; occasionally doubt your own perceptions and beliefs, but mostly TRUST YOUR OWN PERCEPTIONS.
Oh yah, have fun too.
ron clarke said:
I still cannot understand how people can say this and mean it. Your speakers and equipment must not be very revealing if you can't hear a difference between different cables. 😡
chops said:
Actually, if you can hear a difference between cables it means that you amp and/or speakers are flawed.
Battery powered NIGC (non inverted gain clone, passive pre, Fostex Fe-206e TQWT.Room treatments, bass traps, mid traps, high traps.Sorry, but i hear lots of ppl get caught up in the cable myth and have yet to see any real test either subjective(double blind) or objective that proved vast improvements(or for that fact ANY improvements) using witchcraft cable.
Been doing DIY audio for over 30 years and also have used so called "high end" components(purchased) and yet to hear or see any real proof.
If you have any objective results please post them as i have an open mind.
ron
Been doing DIY audio for over 30 years and also have used so called "high end" components(purchased) and yet to hear or see any real proof.
If you have any objective results please post them as i have an open mind.
ron
ron clarke said:
After seeing pictures of some of the members systems here, it's no wonder you can't hear differences between cables and other components. Most of you have speakers stacked all around and on top of eachother, usually not even set up to be listened to properly, placed right up against the wall or shoved in the corners of the room somewhere.
I mean, what's the point in being interested in audio and building your own loudspeakers if you never even set the stuff up properly to begin with?!
I guess the next thing people will be telling me is that you don't have to sit in the same room as the system to be able to hear the soundstaging and imaging.
Well i can hear a difference between lets say monster cable and just 3 stranded CAT 5 (CAT sounds better). But not the difference between $1500 cable and the above.Lets face it, its wire. It is designed to transfer energy with as little effect on the signal as possible. Nothing more, nothing less.
As stated i would like to study some objective test that proves that cable really makes vast improvements.
I worked for Boeing Aerospace in Quality Assurance and for signal transfer i never saw any thing that would be comparable to "high end cable". In fact there is a Mil spec for amplified signal transfer and it uses standard Cu solid core wire, that has to meet bending, conductivity,insulation, dimensional and temp specs, but all in all it was just wire.
ron
As stated i would like to study some objective test that proves that cable really makes vast improvements.
I worked for Boeing Aerospace in Quality Assurance and for signal transfer i never saw any thing that would be comparable to "high end cable". In fact there is a Mil spec for amplified signal transfer and it uses standard Cu solid core wire, that has to meet bending, conductivity,insulation, dimensional and temp specs, but all in all it was just wire.
ron
i know some cables that when utilized properly.
meaning; (if you own the speaker cables, you need the rca cables from the cd player, to the pre amp , to the amp + the speaker cables)
which equals...........? opus speaker cables 40,000.00
2 m cd to pre ; 10-12,k
2-3 m pre to amps; 10-12k
is still under 100,000.00 for the cables.
i would like to audition them is all.
i know the owner of monster cable does not even use his own cables.
don't want to start any cable debate at all.
i just wanted to hear a system with these cables in place.
it is just a part of this fun hobby.
🙂
meaning; (if you own the speaker cables, you need the rca cables from the cd player, to the pre amp , to the amp + the speaker cables)
which equals...........? opus speaker cables 40,000.00
2 m cd to pre ; 10-12,k
2-3 m pre to amps; 10-12k
is still under 100,000.00 for the cables.
i would like to audition them is all.
i know the owner of monster cable does not even use his own cables.
don't want to start any cable debate at all.
i just wanted to hear a system with these cables in place.
it is just a part of this fun hobby.
🙂
Bill Fitzpatrick said:
Why? Do you think I'm just BS'ing you? I'm not. Here's a pic I just took about 10 minutes ago.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
chops said:
Well, I have to hand it to you. You sure have a sense of style. Too bad we all had to sit through the tedious 1MB picture download to see it.
BTW I looked at your Linux site on two different browsers and all I got was a blank page. I certainly have been impressed this evening.
Back to the original subject....
If memory serves me well, there's already another very heated thread on cable "sound" (or lack thereof)... I don't see any point in starting a new one.
From a personal standpoint, being an atheist, it bothers me to see a whole set of religion induced beliefs being replaced by some weird techno-beliefs. Either set can't be properly substantiated, and even if it could, faith (in God, Buddha, Manitou, the Sacred Cow, pure OFC Copper, you name it) has always successfully managed to overcome any other argument.
Trying now to mix-and-match the two different approaches on speaker cable sound (almost impossible, I know), let's see if we can all agree to the following points to get this thread back on track:
a) each and every cable - wether a $0.50/ft. power cord or a $gazillion/inch super-refined, virgin weaved, pope-blessed, etc. cable - has its own characteristic set of parameters R- C - L
b) these parameters, when inserted into a speaker - power amp chain contribute to the overall load of the system. Since the possibilities are almost endless, it's very difficult to predict how a system will react to the insertion of a specific cable.
c) The resulting sound of the system is influenced by the interaction between the three elements of the chain (power amp, cable and speaker). Given the endless variety of combinations, it's almost impossible to come out with a "one-fits-all" solution
d) as a DIY community, we should try and come up with a set of designs with known characteristics, so that everybody will know what elements they are inserting into their chain, and tweak the sound accordingly
Why can't we put our thought differences aside for the moment being and try together and come up with non-conventional designs?
The members with bat ears, super equipment and deep pockets can help the rest of us in comparing the various cables against each others, maybe using one of the bug bucks ones as a reference.
How does it sound?
If memory serves me well, there's already another very heated thread on cable "sound" (or lack thereof)... I don't see any point in starting a new one.
From a personal standpoint, being an atheist, it bothers me to see a whole set of religion induced beliefs being replaced by some weird techno-beliefs. Either set can't be properly substantiated, and even if it could, faith (in God, Buddha, Manitou, the Sacred Cow, pure OFC Copper, you name it) has always successfully managed to overcome any other argument.
Trying now to mix-and-match the two different approaches on speaker cable sound (almost impossible, I know), let's see if we can all agree to the following points to get this thread back on track:
a) each and every cable - wether a $0.50/ft. power cord or a $gazillion/inch super-refined, virgin weaved, pope-blessed, etc. cable - has its own characteristic set of parameters R- C - L
b) these parameters, when inserted into a speaker - power amp chain contribute to the overall load of the system. Since the possibilities are almost endless, it's very difficult to predict how a system will react to the insertion of a specific cable.
c) The resulting sound of the system is influenced by the interaction between the three elements of the chain (power amp, cable and speaker). Given the endless variety of combinations, it's almost impossible to come out with a "one-fits-all" solution
d) as a DIY community, we should try and come up with a set of designs with known characteristics, so that everybody will know what elements they are inserting into their chain, and tweak the sound accordingly
Why can't we put our thought differences aside for the moment being and try together and come up with non-conventional designs?
The members with bat ears, super equipment and deep pockets can help the rest of us in comparing the various cables against each others, maybe using one of the bug bucks ones as a reference.
How does it sound?
Joe04 said:
4 core 3 phase mains cable is an option, wired in
quad conjuration, i.e. opposite pairs together.
Makes a good standard cable.
Solid or stranded core CAT5, 100 ohm a pair. Plait three
together and wire all pairs in parallel , gives an 8.3 ohm
cable.
The CAT5 is equivalent to expensive 8 ohm cables.
And the one I currently use, in my system single
wiring sounds better than bi-wiring.
The two cables above are electrically different and
will sound different, but its system dependent.
One option I've yet to try is two parallel coaxial
RF leads with screen and cores cross connected.
Gives low capacitance and inductance.
🙂 sreten.
I'm sorry, sreten,
but you can't parallell characterstic impedance as with normal resistors....
each cable pair will operate within it's own impedance....
Char. impedance as such has no value as long as we are feeding the cable with a low resistance source and loading with a highly nonlinear impedance. I am not saying that CAT cable is bad, only that standard transmission line theory does not apply here...
The favourable comments on CAT5 cable is probably more a result of well controlled capacitance and inductance...
An example of that is the occasions of nirvana that has been reproted several times on parallelling inner/ outer of two regular coaxial cables..a sittuation that topples all transmission line thinking...
BTW- in a review in E&WW a few years ago , a homemade coaxial cable was judged as #1.... ( Ben Duncan ?? - can't recall...)
but you can't parallell characterstic impedance as with normal resistors....
each cable pair will operate within it's own impedance....
Char. impedance as such has no value as long as we are feeding the cable with a low resistance source and loading with a highly nonlinear impedance. I am not saying that CAT cable is bad, only that standard transmission line theory does not apply here...
The favourable comments on CAT5 cable is probably more a result of well controlled capacitance and inductance...
An example of that is the occasions of nirvana that has been reproted several times on parallelling inner/ outer of two regular coaxial cables..a sittuation that topples all transmission line thinking...
BTW- in a review in E&WW a few years ago , a homemade coaxial cable was judged as #1.... ( Ben Duncan ?? - can't recall...)
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