Sound-Lab A-1 electrostatic loudspeaker | Stereophile.com
This is the ideal solution if u can pull it off...
wel its not a real curved paneli wonder how they tune alll those panels.
Yep, not a true curved panel for sure, although a fraction of an inch 'dead spot' isn't all that big, it's still there. I too wonder how they tune all of those panels..
Hey WrineX, thanks for the post about the tribo, that's information that I did not have before.
I spent a little time perusing articles comparing that vs the C-gun.
Where are you seeing the triboelectric gun available for 250 though? Do you have a link?
cheers..
Hi,
If only it were that easy
Rather than 250€ think of >>1.000€ for a complete spray system.
A oven is of course not included.
Mass flow, Airflow, constancy of Airpressure, etc. all play a role in the charging of the powder particles and as such on the quality of the coating.
One reason for thicker coating layers with tribo guns is the lower amount of charge, rep. lower amount of ions, that tend to ´push´ the powder particles away from each other.
I don´t know where the figure 8 times thicker stems from, but I seriously doubt it.
The typical layer thickness for corona guns is ~100µm.
You may achieve 150-200µm with tribo on a punched metal sheet but probabely not more.
Fluidized bed application has the potential for thicker layers, if You are able to melt the powder layer in fullness.
It may also be not so easy to source a useable powder in such small amounts.
Pure PA (Nylon, PA11, PA12) fore example, while beeing one of the best materials for ESL stators, becomes lower in impedance in a temperature range of 40°C to 70°C. Due to this effect it tends to loose charge (it dischrages into the metallic stator material) and simply falls off of the stator.
It needs additives like Polyolefines, PP or PB to hold the charge.
Having a powder gun system still requires equipment to melt the powder into a homogenous laquer.
I seriously doubt that even if one manages to melt one layer, a second coating layer is far beyond simple DIYing.
Leave powder coating to professionals if You require a professional and safe coating.
For all else one may still coat wet.
jauu
Calvin
If only it were that easy
Rather than 250€ think of >>1.000€ for a complete spray system.
A oven is of course not included.
Mass flow, Airflow, constancy of Airpressure, etc. all play a role in the charging of the powder particles and as such on the quality of the coating.
One reason for thicker coating layers with tribo guns is the lower amount of charge, rep. lower amount of ions, that tend to ´push´ the powder particles away from each other.
I don´t know where the figure 8 times thicker stems from, but I seriously doubt it.
The typical layer thickness for corona guns is ~100µm.
You may achieve 150-200µm with tribo on a punched metal sheet but probabely not more.
Fluidized bed application has the potential for thicker layers, if You are able to melt the powder layer in fullness.
It may also be not so easy to source a useable powder in such small amounts.
Pure PA (Nylon, PA11, PA12) fore example, while beeing one of the best materials for ESL stators, becomes lower in impedance in a temperature range of 40°C to 70°C. Due to this effect it tends to loose charge (it dischrages into the metallic stator material) and simply falls off of the stator.
It needs additives like Polyolefines, PP or PB to hold the charge.
Having a powder gun system still requires equipment to melt the powder into a homogenous laquer.
I seriously doubt that even if one manages to melt one layer, a second coating layer is far beyond simple DIYing.
Leave powder coating to professionals if You require a professional and safe coating.
For all else one may still coat wet.
jauu
Calvin
Sorry it à bit over 250 dollar
Easy Coat Powder Coating System and Powder | diy powder coating system
And some info
http://www.nordson.com/en-us/divisions/industrial-coating/Literature/Powder%20Documentation/White%20Papers/PWR0688.pdf
It states tribo layer thickness of several 100 micron !! In one pass. I am wel aware of the easy cost not bring an industrial gun, but really this is a DIY forum! If it does not have powder flow of an peof gun , you can do a. Second coat.
Also tribo like you mentioned Calvin does not repel as much powder as corona, even beter it does not suver from the faraday effect which is in my honest opinion, one of the mOst imported things since you want that powder in all perforations! It also has a beter finish the corona.
Next oven. Depending on the size of ur panel , everyone can buy a cheap second hand oven for about 50.
Hard to get powder.. Well the site above supply it , in fact almost al sites selling powder coats supply powder for tribo. And always in small quantity (250 gram to several kilo)
One thing I want to make clear I am in no way connected to any of the companies neither did I try it myself. I just looked for this option myself and these are my conclusions. Depending on how wel the easy coat coats it is a very nice way to give those panels a thick coat with far more benefits then corona coated panels. I would love to give it a try some day.
Easy Coat Powder Coating System and Powder | diy powder coating system
And some info
http://www.nordson.com/en-us/divisions/industrial-coating/Literature/Powder%20Documentation/White%20Papers/PWR0688.pdf
It states tribo layer thickness of several 100 micron !! In one pass. I am wel aware of the easy cost not bring an industrial gun, but really this is a DIY forum! If it does not have powder flow of an peof gun , you can do a. Second coat.
Also tribo like you mentioned Calvin does not repel as much powder as corona, even beter it does not suver from the faraday effect which is in my honest opinion, one of the mOst imported things since you want that powder in all perforations! It also has a beter finish the corona.
Next oven. Depending on the size of ur panel , everyone can buy a cheap second hand oven for about 50.
Hard to get powder.. Well the site above supply it , in fact almost al sites selling powder coats supply powder for tribo. And always in small quantity (250 gram to several kilo)
One thing I want to make clear I am in no way connected to any of the companies neither did I try it myself. I just looked for this option myself and these are my conclusions. Depending on how wel the easy coat coats it is a very nice way to give those panels a thick coat with far more benefits then corona coated panels. I would love to give it a try some day.
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Hi,
no doubt that tribo has certain advantages over electrostatic, like layer thickness and reduced Faraday cage effect.
But the claims of the manufacturers typically regard other than our application.
For example, there are claims that Rilsan may be coated up to 3500µm in thickness in one layer(!!) using fluidized bed application.
Well that may be true for massive Offshore Oil rigg parts weighing several tons.
With punched metal sheets with a high degree of openness most coaters won´t even try, let alone succeed in applying a homogenous coating.
For parameters influencing tribo coating see this excerpt:
Fundamentals of Powder Coating, Chapter 5, p87ff.
If one still thinks that buying a tribo gun, ordering some powder, connecting a air pressure hose, and salvaging Mom´s kitchen oven will result in a smooth homogenous and safe functioning coating .... well, I´d be the last to stop You, as I like young enterprising men
jauu
Calvin
no doubt that tribo has certain advantages over electrostatic, like layer thickness and reduced Faraday cage effect.
But the claims of the manufacturers typically regard other than our application.
For example, there are claims that Rilsan may be coated up to 3500µm in thickness in one layer(!!) using fluidized bed application.
Well that may be true for massive Offshore Oil rigg parts weighing several tons.
With punched metal sheets with a high degree of openness most coaters won´t even try, let alone succeed in applying a homogenous coating.
For parameters influencing tribo coating see this excerpt:
Fundamentals of Powder Coating, Chapter 5, p87ff.
If one still thinks that buying a tribo gun, ordering some powder, connecting a air pressure hose, and salvaging Mom´s kitchen oven will result in a smooth homogenous and safe functioning coating .... well, I´d be the last to stop You, as I like young enterprising men
jauu
Calvin
Very little time is about it, WrineX, working 60 hours this week alone. Patience? Not so much..haha
*edit* ..plus spring cleaning after this very bad winter etc.etc.etc. ..and although this probably doesn't belong in the 'Building a large curved ESL' thread, I thought I'd vent a little..
I'll post some more soon..
*edit* ..plus spring cleaning after this very bad winter etc.etc.etc. ..and although this probably doesn't belong in the 'Building a large curved ESL' thread, I thought I'd vent a little..
I'll post some more soon..
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Very little time is about it, WrineX, working 60 hours this week alone. Patience? Not so much..haha
*edit* ..plus spring cleaning after this very bad winter etc.etc.etc. ..and although this probably doesn't belong in the 'Building a large curved ESL' thread, I thought I'd vent a little..
I'll post some more soon..
Hi Wreck,
Just wondering how it's going with your speakers. Please let us know!
Charlie
Hi Charlie
Truth be told, I'm having a helluva time juggling spring cleaning and now on my forth week of 60+ hours..
Then next week I have to cover another guy's territory, which is 75 minute commute there and another 75 back, on top of the hours..
I did get the frames roughed in, but I'm setting my sights on next weekend for any real progress, sorry guys..
Truth be told, I'm having a helluva time juggling spring cleaning and now on my forth week of 60+ hours..
Then next week I have to cover another guy's territory, which is 75 minute commute there and another 75 back, on top of the hours..I did get the frames roughed in, but I'm setting my sights on next weekend for any real progress, sorry guys..
Hi Jer,
Just to clarify, it wasn't the VHB tape that shrunk, that's still adhered around the perimeter and ready to go...
The tape that shrunk or crept (not sure which) is the 'regular' 3m DST that I used for the cross-spacing that did that, that tape felt a little stretchy while I was applying it, and when I inspected the next day it had resumed it's original size I guess.
I had to break down and order more VHB (expensive), and that should be here soon..
cheers
-wreck
Just to clarify, it wasn't the VHB tape that shrunk, that's still adhered around the perimeter and ready to go...
The tape that shrunk or crept (not sure which) is the 'regular' 3m DST that I used for the cross-spacing that did that, that tape felt a little stretchy while I was applying it, and when I inspected the next day it had resumed it's original size I guess.
I had to break down and order more VHB (expensive), and that should be here soon..
cheers
-wreck
Well, a little progress here..
It turned out that the additional VHB tape that I ordered is not suitable for my project because of miscalculated thickness issues. I had to devise a way to cut down my existing tape to match width-wise, so I built a little tool to accomplish just that. (see attach #1)
The stretching jig is ready to go, and the DS tape is in it's final resting place.
(see rest of pics).
It turned out that the additional VHB tape that I ordered is not suitable for my project because of miscalculated thickness issues. I had to devise a way to cut down my existing tape to match width-wise, so I built a little tool to accomplish just that. (see attach #1)
The stretching jig is ready to go, and the DS tape is in it's final resting place.
(see rest of pics).
