First dac at my place that outhperformed subbu dac clone. Gustard X-10.
Sound is more 3dimensional. Bas has more attack an it is more clean and deep. Some more informations in music can be heard.
I will do some measurements ... and some mods, first what I don*t like is that usb powers it from source... pc. Not good. I have made diy silver usb cable with sepparate 5V supply and connect it on 4 Nicd batteries. Sound is more organic fuller, very analog, very good.
Sound is more 3dimensional. Bas has more attack an it is more clean and deep. Some more informations in music can be heard.
I will do some measurements ... and some mods, first what I don*t like is that usb powers it from source... pc. Not good. I have made diy silver usb cable with sepparate 5V supply and connect it on 4 Nicd batteries. Sound is more organic fuller, very analog, very good.
Attachments
Puzzles me too. Properly constructed cables with copper are all that is necessary.
What I don't understand is why build your own USB cable....It requires 90 ohm differential impedance preferably (though low speed USB will work down a piece of wet string, impedance wise) and home made cable is unlikely to be anywhere near....
But using silver is (unless there is a real reason) just paying homage to the wilder audiophile beliefs that have no founding in physics....
But using silver is (unless there is a real reason) just paying homage to the wilder audiophile beliefs that have no founding in physics....
You are so obsessed with numbers... Don't you realize that audio is *ART*, not mere engineering!
He is comparing powering via the internal PC's USB supplied 5 v to his DAC versus using a battery pack as the power source if I am interpreting his posting correctly. I would expect any sound difference to be from the power source not the materials used.
I am aware of that, my question is WHY make the actual USB diff pair cable yourself and WHY has he used silver and not copper, my question is related to that not power down the USB cable...I asked because silver is specifically mentioned so it must have been used for a reason...
LOL Julf, I do forget that the numbers are secondary especially in digital audio, the silver should help keep the USB data nice and bright.
LOL Julf, I do forget that the numbers are secondary especially in digital audio, the silver should help keep the USB data nice and bright.
I used silver because i have it under the desktop For other reasons can we talk on PM. This is SUBBU DAC tread.
Do you think that all usb cables have 90ohm
I must do my own cable to have possibility to use another power supply. In future i will do some regulators instead of batteries. The best i will install it into dac. Why soldering in and out trought nice made dac...
I have some other usb cables at home from supra to cardas... i don*t like it because sound was mellow slow, with lack of details. And cutting it down to get the 2 wires out was pointless.
We are on diyaudio forum...why not do something diy
For other reasons can we talk on PM. This is SUBBU DAC tread.Do you think that all usb cables have 90ohm
I must do my own cable to have possibility to use another power supply. In future i will do some regulators instead of batteries. The best i will install it into dac. Why soldering in and out trought nice made dac...
I have some other usb cables at home from supra to cardas... i don*t like it because sound was mellow slow, with lack of details. And cutting it down to get the 2 wires out was pointless.
We are on diyaudio forum...why not do something diy
So they rounded off the sharp corners of the bits?
We are on diyaudio forum...why not do something diy
Indeed. But it is electronics after all, even if DIYing, one should apply known principles of physics.
I used silver because i have it under the desktop
Do you think that all usb cables have 90ohm
Yes its part of the USB spec and a pre-requisite for putting a USB logo on manufactured cables.
I cannot understand how a non damaged correct specification digital cables can effect the sound thus, I have heard these claims for both SPDIF and USB cables and even that you can correlate the digital waveform with the resultant sound. I have tried numerous USB cables and not noticed any difference, I have also seen numerous USB cables tested and they have all worked with no problems.
I have asked but never been given a reply why silver cables are better for digital signal transmission over copper cables...
In simulations I have done I cannot simulate any difference between the two metals for digital signal transmission (the slight improvement in conductance has a negligible effect).
You change a little something and the sound change !
E.G. in the genuine Subbu i swap the main 10 uf caps for 20 uf KZ Muse (after trying 20 different caps)of the spidf wolfson chip and it was one of my best found.... So, not talking of measurments, I believe each people tweak in relation to the whole system he has at home (or in him lab development for vendors...).
Surmise firstly a good layout and development choice are more important.
We can spend a lot around this cheap chip to improve the sound but the game is to make it unexpensive... so FIFO and sota input USB or whatever and outputstage are nearly... indecent.
No one is talking about super pcbs with best glass plastic and silver traces ?.... I'm sure it changes the sound but needs compensations elswheres... so like a F1 all is a question of tweaking in relation to the race (here the hifi system you have to glue to the speakers, amps, wwires, etc).
Above mathematic and measurement there is a reality : nobody has the same room and main system around the DAC... others things are marketing, lyrics & music !
Marce, I should be very curious to listen to for the culture thing : your smt clone Subbu DAC, I surmise it could be an excellent learning and didactic tool ! Where to put the trade off is important ! But agree it's firstly engeeniring before all, even if ears don't care about engeeniring : they live after all in an environment !
haahahaha I'm found off my 2 cents non usefull coments !
E.G. in the genuine Subbu i swap the main 10 uf caps for 20 uf KZ Muse (after trying 20 different caps)of the spidf wolfson chip and it was one of my best found.... So, not talking of measurments, I believe each people tweak in relation to the whole system he has at home (or in him lab development for vendors...).
Surmise firstly a good layout and development choice are more important.
We can spend a lot around this cheap chip to improve the sound but the game is to make it unexpensive... so FIFO and sota input USB or whatever and outputstage are nearly... indecent
.No one is talking about super pcbs with best glass plastic and silver traces ?.... I'm sure it changes the sound but needs compensations elswheres... so like a F1 all is a question of tweaking in relation to the race (here the hifi system you have to glue to the speakers, amps, wwires, etc).
Above mathematic and measurement there is a reality : nobody has the same room and main system around the DAC... others things are marketing, lyrics & music !
Marce, I should be very curious to listen to for the culture thing : your smt clone Subbu DAC, I surmise it could be an excellent learning and didactic tool ! Where to put the trade off is important ! But agree it's firstly engeeniring before all, even if ears don't care about engeeniring : they live after all in an environment !
haahahaha I'm found off my 2 cents non usefull coments !
Eldam, I am being very specific here regarding silver cable and digital signal transmission and I do know that keeping cable geometry the same using copper, tin plated copper, silver plated copper and silver has no effect on the digital signal. Even changing dielectrics (the insulation for different temperature ranges, also why silver plated copper is used) as long as you keep the cables characteristic impedance correct for the interface the signal will arrive at its destination correctly, same with PCBs, this is also true for analogue signals.
Components in the circuit are a different matter.
Components in the circuit are a different matter.
i always prefered copper to silver and swaped silvered coper in my speakers for copper !
I did... I writted in my system only a cap of the dac board needed trully a BG... it's on the other thread about the subbu !
all this caps mods are trade of with 2 factor n number caps changed !
But in what i tried only one position (and an other in the PS board) needed trully a BG !
i always prefered copper to silver and swaped silvered coper in my speakers for copper !
But marce is talking about digital connections. Rather different situation...
I have tried eslwhere in an output dac a pure silver without insuling bought on Audiophonics (afrench site)... : difference but not important and not particulary better in my system.
Never tried pure silver with the + link with my speakers... surmise for the - : the lowest impedance the better : I use bigger copper diameter to affoard this goal on the - speaker wire... step by step you increase the diameter to finf the right equilibrium in your system !
Conductivity between copper and silver are very near from each other.... avantage to silver as with time it conducts better than copper
Never tried pure silver with the + link with my speakers... surmise for the - : the lowest impedance the better : I use bigger copper diameter to affoard this goal on the - speaker wire... step by step you increase the diameter to finf the right equilibrium in your system !
Conductivity between copper and silver are very near from each other.... avantage to silver as with time it conducts better than copper
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My views are from experimentation that has been carried out for a couple of projects I worked on for Cobham (both Defence Communications and flight refuelling). This is why I do keep asking for some proof regarding why silver cable is different from copper (I did hint as to why these test were being performed, working temp range).
As to silvers conductivity 4-5% better than copper, look at the diagram in this link regarding the difference in size of conductors to get the same conductivity.....I would also look at the manufacturing tolerances of cable diameters etc., the tolerance of discrete components used in the circuit etc. On PCBs the tolerances for impedances are quite wide even if you have boards made to class 3 standard with controlled impedances, again these will outweigh the slight difference in resistance. And resistance is only one variable, that means the electrons don't bang about as much, inductance and capacitance are also important, as is the dielectric for digital (square wave signals).
https://www.bluesea.com/resources/108
Now even though I do not believe you will notice a difference with analogue lets stick to digital...there will be no difference in signal transmission in the signal being sent if you change the conductor material, if anyone has ANY proof to the contrary I would gladly read it and revue my opinion.
An interesting read regarding transmission lines for digital signal transmission, the critical factor in determining whether a signal is high speed is its rise and fall time.
Lessons In Electric Circuits -- Volume II (AC) - Chapter 14
As to silvers conductivity 4-5% better than copper, look at the diagram in this link regarding the difference in size of conductors to get the same conductivity.....I would also look at the manufacturing tolerances of cable diameters etc., the tolerance of discrete components used in the circuit etc. On PCBs the tolerances for impedances are quite wide even if you have boards made to class 3 standard with controlled impedances, again these will outweigh the slight difference in resistance. And resistance is only one variable, that means the electrons don't bang about as much, inductance and capacitance are also important, as is the dielectric for digital (square wave signals).
https://www.bluesea.com/resources/108
Now even though I do not believe you will notice a difference with analogue lets stick to digital...there will be no difference in signal transmission in the signal being sent if you change the conductor material, if anyone has ANY proof to the contrary I would gladly read it and revue my opinion.
An interesting read regarding transmission lines for digital signal transmission, the critical factor in determining whether a signal is high speed is its rise and fall time.
Lessons In Electric Circuits -- Volume II (AC) - Chapter 14