Re: Re: volts, amps, what does it really matter?
I was under the impression that they were talking about the outside resonances influencing the cord😉
Jorge, you are again too fast drawing conclusions.
Peter Daniel said:
I was under the impression that they were talking about the outside resonances influencing the cord😉
Jorge, you are again too fast drawing conclusions.
Re: A momentary lapse of reason....
Naaaaah. Wasn't clever thinking. Just quick thinking. Didn't want any of these Bozos pestering me to borrow my nanometer resolution laser interferometer. 🙂
Thank you for the kind words.
se
Tube_Dude said:
Naaaaah. Wasn't clever thinking. Just quick thinking. Didn't want any of these Bozos pestering me to borrow my nanometer resolution laser interferometer. 🙂
Thank you for the kind words.
se
Speedy Gonzalez...
Too fast??'😉
Obviously if the variation of current don't produce any vibration...any vibration can't produce any variation of current...
Cheers
Too fast??'😉
Obviously if the variation of current don't produce any vibration...any vibration can't produce any variation of current...
Cheers
Re: Re: Re: volts, amps, what does it really matter?
What outside resonances? The resonances being referred to are the mechanical resonances of the cable itself, owing to the signals flowing through it. Though acoustical energy from the speakers would also be impinging on it to some degree.
But ultimately, as far as I can see the only "effect" would be microscopic movement of the cable, which might result in equally microscopic relative movement between conductors which would result in microscopically small changes in the cable's inductance and capacitance.
but if you want to try something else, try connecting a power cord or interconnect or speaker cable up to a 'scope and then hang it in front of a loudspeaker with some music turned up as loud as possible and see how well the cable functions as a microphone.
se
Peter Daniel said:
What outside resonances? The resonances being referred to are the mechanical resonances of the cable itself, owing to the signals flowing through it. Though acoustical energy from the speakers would also be impinging on it to some degree.
But ultimately, as far as I can see the only "effect" would be microscopic movement of the cable, which might result in equally microscopic relative movement between conductors which would result in microscopically small changes in the cable's inductance and capacitance.
but if you want to try something else, try connecting a power cord or interconnect or speaker cable up to a 'scope and then hang it in front of a loudspeaker with some music turned up as loud as possible and see how well the cable functions as a microphone.
se
Re: Too fast?
In this case a variation of current produce a vibration of the loudspeaker....a vibration of the loudspeaker produce a variation of current...
The logic is the same!!!😉
Peter Daniel said:
In this case a variation of current produce a vibration of the loudspeaker....a vibration of the loudspeaker produce a variation of current...
The logic is the same!!!😉
Re: Speedy Gonzalez...
Well techincally, if there is any relative movement between the two conductors, the result will be a change in the cable's inductance and capacitance which would modulate whatever signal's passing through the cable.
But the magnitude of this would be dependent on how much relative movement there is. And unless you've just got some rather thin foils flapping in the breeze, I don't see that you'll get any relative movement to speak of.
se
Tube_Dude said:
Well techincally, if there is any relative movement between the two conductors, the result will be a change in the cable's inductance and capacitance which would modulate whatever signal's passing through the cable.
But the magnitude of this would be dependent on how much relative movement there is. And unless you've just got some rather thin foils flapping in the breeze, I don't see that you'll get any relative movement to speak of.
se
Re: Re: Re: Re: volts, amps, what does it really matter?
I think we should be talking here only about resonances caused by acoustical energy, since as you eperimented already, the signal flowing through the cable, doesn't produce any detectable resonances, unless you might try using better instruments to detect it😉 But even if they exist, they are negligable comparing to mechanical resonances caused by sound pressure. You can feel those resonances quite easily, by just putting your hand on a top cover of any stereo unit you might be using. As an interesting note, I'm using a pneumatic platform under my CD player and by placing my hand on it I don't feel any resonances of the unit. That might be a reason some people use some sort of wooden blocks and frames under their cables to either reduce resonances or change them for a better sonic effect.
Steve Eddy said:
I think we should be talking here only about resonances caused by acoustical energy, since as you eperimented already, the signal flowing through the cable, doesn't produce any detectable resonances, unless you might try using better instruments to detect it😉 But even if they exist, they are negligable comparing to mechanical resonances caused by sound pressure. You can feel those resonances quite easily, by just putting your hand on a top cover of any stereo unit you might be using. As an interesting note, I'm using a pneumatic platform under my CD player and by placing my hand on it I don't feel any resonances of the unit. That might be a reason some people use some sort of wooden blocks and frames under their cables to either reduce resonances or change them for a better sonic effect.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: volts, amps, what does it really matter?
Fine with me.
Um... unfortunately my nanometer resolution laser interferometer's at the cleaners. 🙂
Perhaps. I'm not so sure though. I mean, you've got both electric and magnetic fields creating forces between the conductors and any current flowing through the conductors' resistance will produce thermal expansion and contraction, etc.
So I'm not so sure those forces are necessarily negligible compared to sound pressure.
And how easily can you feel them on say a power cord?
A top cover's hardly a fair comparison. A big flat metal diaphragm with with a low resonant frequency hardly compares to some wires wrapped in plastic.
But again, as I said, see how well a cable works as a microphone.
Take one of those 12 volt SLAs you've got and connect it via a 100 ohm series resistor to one end of a simple twisted pair of say 24 gauge hookup wire or similar. A meter or so in length would be fine. Tie a 10k resistor across the other end of the twisted pair. Dangle it in front of a loudspeaker, or better still lay it on top of the loudspeaker so it gets some mechanical coupling with the loudspeaker as well.
Connect your 'scope across the 10k resistor, crank up the speakers as loud as you can, and see what you pick up.
Well such a platform can help with mechanical coupling of vibration. But no matter what I've put equipment on over the years, any large panels on the equipment have still picked up considerable amounts of acoustic vibration.
se
Peter Daniel said:
Fine with me.
Um... unfortunately my nanometer resolution laser interferometer's at the cleaners. 🙂
Perhaps. I'm not so sure though. I mean, you've got both electric and magnetic fields creating forces between the conductors and any current flowing through the conductors' resistance will produce thermal expansion and contraction, etc.
So I'm not so sure those forces are necessarily negligible compared to sound pressure.
And how easily can you feel them on say a power cord?
A top cover's hardly a fair comparison. A big flat metal diaphragm with with a low resonant frequency hardly compares to some wires wrapped in plastic.
But again, as I said, see how well a cable works as a microphone.
Take one of those 12 volt SLAs you've got and connect it via a 100 ohm series resistor to one end of a simple twisted pair of say 24 gauge hookup wire or similar. A meter or so in length would be fine. Tie a 10k resistor across the other end of the twisted pair. Dangle it in front of a loudspeaker, or better still lay it on top of the loudspeaker so it gets some mechanical coupling with the loudspeaker as well.
Connect your 'scope across the 10k resistor, crank up the speakers as loud as you can, and see what you pick up.
Well such a platform can help with mechanical coupling of vibration. But no matter what I've put equipment on over the years, any large panels on the equipment have still picked up considerable amounts of acoustic vibration.
se
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: volts, amps, what does it really matter?
What am I missing? The photograph's quite dark and I'm not seeing anything obvious that relates to what you'd said.
se
Peter Daniel said:
What am I missing? The photograph's quite dark and I'm not seeing anything obvious that relates to what you'd said.
se
See the cables and some wooden frames keeping them in the air, off the floor? That the scan I made from Sound and Vision magazine, sorry for bad copy.
Peter Daniel said:
Mmmm. Not really. 'Bout the closest thing I see to anything like that is that sort of light bluish arch looking thing down and to the right of the center channel speaker.
I saw one that's absolutely hilarious. I'll see if I can locate it.
se
Right beside left channel speaker it looks like a big plastic thing from Monster Cable, standing on two supporting frames.
Peter Daniel said:
Sorry, still can't quite make heads or tails of it. Is this in the latest issue? If so I'll check it out when I go to the store tomorrow.
se
No, that one is at least 7 years old. I'll try to make a better copy tomorrow, unless you are pulling my leg again😉
Been There, Done That....
These reinforcing mesh individual supports are cheap, easily available and will change your sound.
Eric.
These reinforcing mesh individual supports are cheap, easily available and will change your sound.
Eric.
Attachments
Everything Matters...
Those who do know about them do not want to go back to 'normal' cables.
The only useable test gear I have at present is 44k/16 bit sound card, and this is not good enough to show up transfer function changes - I am hunting access to an AP test-set so that I can do so.
The change is not FR per se, more so changing harmonics relationships, maybe phase relationships, and certainly the nature of noise and distortions.
The sonic effect is to make systems and muso instruments sounds cleaner, clearer, and rather more pleasing.
Also, systems are able to go MUCH louder and then without causing aural irritation.
I do not have full measurements or full explanations yet, but I can assure that the effect is entirely real.
This may be an interesting discovery regarding audio recording and reproduction, and as far as I know, it is entirely unique.
Much of the differences between cables is caused by dielectric materials, and these impart characteristic sonic signatures.
It seems that you are a relative newbie to the audio world.
Eric.
Hi Christopher, these interconnects DO make a substantial difference to the sound, and strongly enough to be noted by those who have no knowlege of the usage of these interconnects and power cables.Christopher said:
Those who do know about them do not want to go back to 'normal' cables.
The only useable test gear I have at present is 44k/16 bit sound card, and this is not good enough to show up transfer function changes - I am hunting access to an AP test-set so that I can do so.
The change is not FR per se, more so changing harmonics relationships, maybe phase relationships, and certainly the nature of noise and distortions.
The sonic effect is to make systems and muso instruments sounds cleaner, clearer, and rather more pleasing.
Also, systems are able to go MUCH louder and then without causing aural irritation.
I do not have full measurements or full explanations yet, but I can assure that the effect is entirely real.
This may be an interesting discovery regarding audio recording and reproduction, and as far as I know, it is entirely unique.
Much of the differences between cables is caused by dielectric materials, and these impart characteristic sonic signatures.
It seems that you are a relative newbie to the audio world.
Eric.
Hi Peter, I agree with pretty much all of what Mike VansEvers has to say - I went down that track a long time ago.
Eric.
Eric.
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