mrfeedback said:
I've been walking that path quite recently actually (about 2 years) but whatever I read there is much in line with my own findings and experimentation. Since I experienced it, I always keep an open mind and even if something seems hard to believe, I will never question or criticize, untill I try it myself.
I Find All Of It Interesting....
Keeping an open mind also allows better hearing, and this whole process has led to the cables that I refer to.
There is much more going on than is explained by standard LCR theory.
Eric.
Yes, I have turned up many things that at the time seemed weird or 'impossible', but now are old hat to me.
Keeping an open mind also allows better hearing, and this whole process has led to the cables that I refer to.
There is much more going on than is explained by standard LCR theory.
Eric.
Re: I Find All Of It Interesting....
And there is much much more going on still. Namely human physiology and psychology. And anyone in denial of that should refrain from claiming to have an open mind.
se
mrfeedback said:
And there is much much more going on still. Namely human physiology and psychology. And anyone in denial of that should refrain from claiming to have an open mind.
se
Re: Re: I Find All Of It Interesting....
On the other hand, what about the several tens of metres of wire *after* the power cord that the power tranny is wound from? Isn't that going to undo any effect of a 2 metre length of magic power cord? Or is that like the long length of woofer crossover choke wire not being able to undo the effect of miracle speaker cables?
Finally! Something I can agree with.Steve Eddy said:
On the other hand, what about the several tens of metres of wire *after* the power cord that the power tranny is wound from? Isn't that going to undo any effect of a 2 metre length of magic power cord? Or is that like the long length of woofer crossover choke wire not being able to undo the effect of miracle speaker cables?
To Steve.
You just can't let go of the psychology BS can you.
See my above posts about no prior knowlege of usage of my cables.
Jeezus, talk about dogmatic beliefs.
Eric.
You just can't let go of the psychology BS can you.
See my above posts about no prior knowlege of usage of my cables.
Jeezus, talk about dogmatic beliefs.
Eric.
To Graham
Fred gave a very good explanation of loading effecting stages the other day.
This is a good explanation for some sonic changes due to changes in cable types.
Eric.
Fred gave a very good explanation of loading effecting stages the other day.
This is a good explanation for some sonic changes due to changes in cable types.
Eric.
Re: To Steve.
Yes, I can't let go of the psychology BS. Just like I can't let go of the germ theory BS, the sun-centric solar system BS. The spherical earth BS, etc.
Why? I don't recall saying anything about your cables.
Excuse me? How does keeping one's mind open to all possibilities constitute dogmatic beliefs?
se
mrfeedback said:
Yes, I can't let go of the psychology BS. Just like I can't let go of the germ theory BS, the sun-centric solar system BS. The spherical earth BS, etc.
Why? I don't recall saying anything about your cables.
Excuse me? How does keeping one's mind open to all possibilities constitute dogmatic beliefs?
se
Steve Eddy
Forgive the slightly off topic post but did you ever do a blind listening test of two comparatively identical preamps/amp with battery vs. mains supply? I ask this because your insight and suggestions may be very helpful in the "Fly me to the moon:6181/inverted gainclone" thread. I think I remember you being a proponent of battery supplies, am I mistaken?
Forgive the slightly off topic post but did you ever do a blind listening test of two comparatively identical preamps/amp with battery vs. mains supply? I ask this because your insight and suggestions may be very helpful in the "Fly me to the moon:6181/inverted gainclone" thread. I think I remember you being a proponent of battery supplies, am I mistaken?
THEORY & REALITY.
Hi,
Yep...one thing people often forget is that speakers change impedance with frequency.
And that's just one thing.😉
Hi,
Yep...one thing people often forget is that speakers change impedance with frequency.
And that's just one thing.😉
Re: Re: Re: I Find All Of It Interesting....
Dunno. My only point was that those in denial of certain realities shouldn't speak of having open minds. Nor should they accuse others of having closed minds.
se
Circlotron said:On the other hand, what about the several tens of metres of wire *after* the power cord that the power tranny is wound from? Isn't that going to undo any effect of a 2 metre length of magic power cord? Or is that like the long length of woofer crossover choke wire not being able to undo the effect of miracle speaker cables?
Dunno. My only point was that those in denial of certain realities shouldn't speak of having open minds. Nor should they accuse others of having closed minds.
se
Re: Re: Re: I Find All Of It Interesting....
Not neccessarily. Your wall outlet is your reference, and you can't do nothing about it. Anything you attach to it, will pose it's own sonic signature, you like it or not.
Some are less fortunate and have several tens of meters from power transformers, some others have transformer right across the street, with 10 meter of custom wire connected to it and custom wire in a wall.😉 Again, you may like it or not.
Circlotron said:
Finally! Something I can agree with.
On the other hand, what about the several tens of metres of wire *after* the power cord that the power tranny is wound from? Isn't that going to undo any effect of a 2 metre length of magic power cord? Or is that like the long length of woofer crossover choke wire not being able to undo the effect of miracle speaker cables?
Not neccessarily. Your wall outlet is your reference, and you can't do nothing about it. Anything you attach to it, will pose it's own sonic signature, you like it or not.
Some are less fortunate and have several tens of meters from power transformers, some others have transformer right across the street, with 10 meter of custom wire connected to it and custom wire in a wall.😉 Again, you may like it or not.
Re: THEORY & REALITY.
But what has this to do with "there is much more going on than is explained by standard LCR theory"? A speaker's changing impedance with frequency is explained by standard LCR theory.
se
fdegrove said:
But what has this to do with "there is much more going on than is explained by standard LCR theory"? A speaker's changing impedance with frequency is explained by standard LCR theory.
se
nania said:
Nope. Haven't any interest in doing blind testing. I just go with whatever works for me at the subjective level.
Batteries have worked well for me, yes. But that's just my subjective experience so take it for what it's worth.
se
Cables and cables...
There are many cable topologies, and no one is perfect.
As you may know, a perfect cable would have very low impedance, inductance and capacitance.
Unfortunately it's impossible to have the three at the same time.
If you have a low inductance cable, it will have high capacitance.
A given speaker cable may give excelent results with amplifier A a very poor with amp B.
That's why you really have to test the cables with your gear.
You can put the best speaker cables in your Naim amp an run into trouble.
That's why Naim sells speaker cables.
And they're nothing special.
But they give the best results with their amps.
DNM is the same story.
So, don't jump into conclusions by measuring.
One amp may react better to high capacitance, others may not.
The same for inductance.
As for mains cables, it's good to have a good shielding (it can't be bad).
As for differences, I think that in countries where you have 110 volt mains you may notice more differences than in Europe.
110 volts has double the current and your big amp won't like bellwire for mains.
There are many cable topologies, and no one is perfect.
As you may know, a perfect cable would have very low impedance, inductance and capacitance.
Unfortunately it's impossible to have the three at the same time.
If you have a low inductance cable, it will have high capacitance.
A given speaker cable may give excelent results with amplifier A a very poor with amp B.
That's why you really have to test the cables with your gear.
You can put the best speaker cables in your Naim amp an run into trouble.
That's why Naim sells speaker cables.
And they're nothing special.
But they give the best results with their amps.
DNM is the same story.
So, don't jump into conclusions by measuring.
One amp may react better to high capacitance, others may not.
The same for inductance.
As for mains cables, it's good to have a good shielding (it can't be bad).
As for differences, I think that in countries where you have 110 volt mains you may notice more differences than in Europe.
110 volts has double the current and your big amp won't like bellwire for mains.
put your hands where I can see them and step away from the paddles!
Nobody is spanking anybody today. A little thing called context is in order here.
Two things here, firstly I never said they did not degrade over time I said seeding them with the idea that they do. Like telling someone that skin effect changes the properties of the cable. At what frequency? Secondly I inferred wear[\i] of the cable, "used a lot at high volumes". Now unless you've got a lot of DC offset in your hi-end gear...
Well Frank, it's not me, it's the whole physics community in general. L,C,R nothing else. Any effects (including skin effect and the likes) changes one of those three parameters. If it does not, then I'm afraid it cannot effect the sound, as it cannot effect the signal. I will state this once more for fun, if a difference can be heard, it can be measured, in an anechoic chamber, and at the speaker terminals. That's how we've gotten as far as we have in audio engineering.
Cheers,
Chris
Nobody is spanking anybody today. A little thing called context is in order here.
Two things here, firstly I never said they did not degrade over time I said seeding them with the idea that they do. Like telling someone that skin effect changes the properties of the cable. At what frequency? Secondly I inferred wear[\i] of the cable, "used a lot at high volumes". Now unless you've got a lot of DC offset in your hi-end gear...
Well Frank, it's not me, it's the whole physics community in general. L,C,R nothing else. Any effects (including skin effect and the likes) changes one of those three parameters. If it does not, then I'm afraid it cannot effect the sound, as it cannot effect the signal. I will state this once more for fun, if a difference can be heard, it can be measured, in an anechoic chamber, and at the speaker terminals. That's how we've gotten as far as we have in audio engineering.
Cheers,
Chris
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