Seems the end is nigh...........
Hi,
I've just seen this link from PcX. Looks like BGs are going to disappear..........
http://partsconnexion.com/blackgate/future_productionOCT.htm
Jon
Hi,
I've just seen this link from PcX. Looks like BGs are going to disappear..........
http://partsconnexion.com/blackgate/future_productionOCT.htm
Jon
Hi everyone, I hope you don't mind me coming in on this thread.
I have used BG Nx Hi-Q 47uF 6.3v on the 5v digital supply rails in my Marantz CD67 with great effect. They transformed the sound when I changed from BG-PK. I see the general consensus is that Rubycon ZA are good in digital circuits, but what about analogue?
I haven't found anything that can compare with BG STD or FK for decoupling the opamps, or the dac analogue rails, do you guys recommend the ZA's again? I have tried Elna Silmic and they are nowhere near as good as BG.
Lee.
I have used BG Nx Hi-Q 47uF 6.3v on the 5v digital supply rails in my Marantz CD67 with great effect. They transformed the sound when I changed from BG-PK. I see the general consensus is that Rubycon ZA are good in digital circuits, but what about analogue?
I haven't found anything that can compare with BG STD or FK for decoupling the opamps, or the dac analogue rails, do you guys recommend the ZA's again? I have tried Elna Silmic and they are nowhere near as good as BG.
Lee.
Thomo said:
Yep, Za's are good for analog too... what I found works best is - DO NOT use paralleled caps (say ceramic+ZA), use a CLC filter instead because of parasitic inductance induced oscillation. I might be wrong about the oscillation/ring cause but they sound like crap when paralleled.
Looks like Rubycon are discontinuing ZA's also...
http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/catalog/daitai.html
Lee.
http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/catalog/daitai.html
Lee.
Nichicon Polymer electrolytic.
820UF, 6.3V, NICHICON PLE0J821MDO1 polymer
6800mA @ 100KHz
Z = 0.005 Ohm @ 100KHz @ 20°C
Tan loss angle = 0.05 105°C
Farnell part number = 1580609
820UF, 16V, NICHICON PLG1C821MDO1 polymer
5600mA @ 100KHz
Z = 0.011 Ohm @ 100KHz @ 20°C
Tan loss angle = 0.08 105°C
Farnell part number = 1580602
They do a few other values, but unlike Black Gates, no larger values at higher voltages.
We did careful comparisons to Black Gates and preferred these Nichicons.
Before comparing, all run in for many weeks or months using music.
Generally post regulator decoupling caps. ±8V +5V and +3.3V. Also one pre reg posn, ±12V.
Tests done on a 'properly' modified Auzentec X-meridian sound card feeding a VERY revealing system, ie, recently tests showed we can hear the effect of different types of speaker protection relays and so no longer use them, and the effect amplifier output terminal posts so we're going to delete those and solder the output transistors to the speaker wires. It's an extreme system, eg, it can't be switched off as there of no switches and is powered up 24/7. There is no preamp or source selector. There is only one source. Only decent silver wire carries the signal, ie, there are no copper tracks on any PCBs. Only Vishay resistors are used for small signal and Caddock for higher power positions. That's not to say there aren't significant and worthwhile improvements to be had, I think we can coax some more out before were done.
So...
100u @ 25V standard Grade F BG's (because I already had them) vs 820u @ 16V and 820u @ 6.3V Nichicons (which I bought to try out).
Whilst the BDs did have a somewhat 'larger' bass, which was rather enjoyable, it was not as informative. We prefered the slightly less but better bass of the polymer caps.
Everywhere else the Nichicons polymers were better or quite a bit better. Much cleaner and more dynamic treble, less harsh, less grainy, less splashy, less veiled than the BG's and more informative, engaging and listenable. Better stereo from the faster sharper incisive sound they conferred.
Then we compared with some NX grade BGs, 220u @ 6.3 (which I also already had).
Same result as above.
We tried both the NX and the Nichicons in parallel in a couple of positions and the sound was muddled and better with just the Nichicons.
Subsequently, I've added these Nichicons to a Pink Triangle Dacapo DAC with excellent results everywhere I put them. Although in one position, post reg, +5V pre th DAC chips, parallelling the Nichicon with the 220u BGNX WAS better. A fuller and more puchy but still just as clean bass. No muddling of the mid or treble or dulling of the mid or treble transient response.
I've not tried the other makes of Polymer electrolytic capacitors mainly as only the Nichicons a readily available from catalogues such are Farnell in the UK.
820UF, 6.3V, NICHICON PLE0J821MDO1 polymer
6800mA @ 100KHz
Z = 0.005 Ohm @ 100KHz @ 20°C
Tan loss angle = 0.05 105°C
Farnell part number = 1580609
820UF, 16V, NICHICON PLG1C821MDO1 polymer
5600mA @ 100KHz
Z = 0.011 Ohm @ 100KHz @ 20°C
Tan loss angle = 0.08 105°C
Farnell part number = 1580602
They do a few other values, but unlike Black Gates, no larger values at higher voltages.
We did careful comparisons to Black Gates and preferred these Nichicons.
Before comparing, all run in for many weeks or months using music.
Generally post regulator decoupling caps. ±8V +5V and +3.3V. Also one pre reg posn, ±12V.
Tests done on a 'properly' modified Auzentec X-meridian sound card feeding a VERY revealing system, ie, recently tests showed we can hear the effect of different types of speaker protection relays and so no longer use them, and the effect amplifier output terminal posts so we're going to delete those and solder the output transistors to the speaker wires. It's an extreme system, eg, it can't be switched off as there of no switches and is powered up 24/7. There is no preamp or source selector. There is only one source. Only decent silver wire carries the signal, ie, there are no copper tracks on any PCBs. Only Vishay resistors are used for small signal and Caddock for higher power positions. That's not to say there aren't significant and worthwhile improvements to be had, I think we can coax some more out before were done.
So...
100u @ 25V standard Grade F BG's (because I already had them) vs 820u @ 16V and 820u @ 6.3V Nichicons (which I bought to try out).
Whilst the BDs did have a somewhat 'larger' bass, which was rather enjoyable, it was not as informative. We prefered the slightly less but better bass of the polymer caps.
Everywhere else the Nichicons polymers were better or quite a bit better. Much cleaner and more dynamic treble, less harsh, less grainy, less splashy, less veiled than the BG's and more informative, engaging and listenable. Better stereo from the faster sharper incisive sound they conferred.
Then we compared with some NX grade BGs, 220u @ 6.3 (which I also already had).
Same result as above.
We tried both the NX and the Nichicons in parallel in a couple of positions and the sound was muddled and better with just the Nichicons.
Subsequently, I've added these Nichicons to a Pink Triangle Dacapo DAC with excellent results everywhere I put them. Although in one position, post reg, +5V pre th DAC chips, parallelling the Nichicon with the 220u BGNX WAS better. A fuller and more puchy but still just as clean bass. No muddling of the mid or treble or dulling of the mid or treble transient response.
I've not tried the other makes of Polymer electrolytic capacitors mainly as only the Nichicons a readily available from catalogues such are Farnell in the UK.
I'd also used Sanyo Oscons many years ago as part of the DAC supply but since moving to the PC a few years ago they've been powered down and I've not given them a recent try.
Some people had mentioned that the earlier polymer caps were more 'punchy' than the old Oscons as some people liked that in their listening system and some didn't.
Earlier last year, in other threads people had said liked liked the new polymer type Oscons compared to the old type so I went off to buy some and didn't really find any. So I looked for polymer and found that Nichicon make them and Farnell sell them.
I recall that on my DAC supply I had both BGNX and the old Oscons after the discrete + 5V regulator. The Oscons were very clear in the mid treble compared to the BGs which were a bit 'warmer' and fuzzy in that position.
Some people had mentioned that the earlier polymer caps were more 'punchy' than the old Oscons as some people liked that in their listening system and some didn't.
Earlier last year, in other threads people had said liked liked the new polymer type Oscons compared to the old type so I went off to buy some and didn't really find any. So I looked for polymer and found that Nichicon make them and Farnell sell them.
I recall that on my DAC supply I had both BGNX and the old Oscons after the discrete + 5V regulator. The Oscons were very clear in the mid treble compared to the BGs which were a bit 'warmer' and fuzzy in that position.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.