Hi all,
Very interesting to hear all your thoughts on finishings.
I have a question a little off the point but how are you all cutting such neat round hopes in baffles and through bracing etc. Are you using hole saws or routers with gigs etc?
Ian
Very interesting to hear all your thoughts on finishings.
I have a question a little off the point but how are you all cutting such neat round hopes in baffles and through bracing etc. Are you using hole saws or routers with gigs etc?
Ian
Laboone...
Most people are probably using a 'jasper jig' that you can buy from Parts Express. It easily hooks up to a plunge router and gives you perfrect holes everytime. Its not really expensive, and you'll use it over and over.
You can use a jigsaw to cut the holes, but its tough to get a perfect circle with no variations in it. If you're gonna surface mount the driver, then it won't matter really. But, if you're gonna flush mount the driver I would really recommend the jasper jig.
Hope that helps.
Blake
Most people are probably using a 'jasper jig' that you can buy from Parts Express. It easily hooks up to a plunge router and gives you perfrect holes everytime. Its not really expensive, and you'll use it over and over.
You can use a jigsaw to cut the holes, but its tough to get a perfect circle with no variations in it. If you're gonna surface mount the driver, then it won't matter really. But, if you're gonna flush mount the driver I would really recommend the jasper jig.
Hope that helps.
Blake
Loboone said:
A router jig is the way to go (if you have a router) as retiredmxr said. Also, you'll want to make sure you plan things well. Lay out and cut the holes in the baffle before you assemble the box. This makes it easier and safer as you can clamp it down properly. If you have a brace that crosses the driver opening, notch the brace for the driver before putting it in (as shown in the following pics)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1175332&stamp=1175647565
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1175330&stamp=1175647413
I don't know what a Jasper jig is, but here in the UK I use what is termed a router compass. Basically like a pair of compasses that you use with a pencil. My dad's mate with a lathe made me an attachment to fix onto a fence rod, for big holes. For smaller holes I bought an item made by Trend.
Loboone said:
Hi Ian
I was a bit slow to pick up on this question....but fwiw this is what I use for small and medium sized holes. Its dead easy to use and I think self explanatory to make.....The centre screw is shown in the pic upside down as it would obviously foul the router in the position its shown. The bolt head normally sits flush with the top surface of the template. There is a full size pic on my website, in the middle of the vofo pages. For larger holes I use a trammel bar, which was mentioned earlier...
Regards
Ed
Attachments
I searched and searched in the UK for something simple and reliable to attach to a plunge router in order to make small accurate circles. There was the odd device out there, but none floated my boat.
I came up with a very simple solution in the end:
I removed the plastic piece that is attached to the bottom of the router, that slides across the wood, and attached a piece of 10mm ply instead, using the same screws/bolts.
I countersunk the bolts so that the heads were inside the ply. The ply was the same width as the router base in one dimension and about 40cm long in the other.
I then drew lines on the ply that exactly crossed the centre, which corresponded with the centre of the router. Oh, I had drilled a 40mm hole in the centre of the ply to allow the router bits to do their job.
I then inserted a smooth steel pin (I used the shaft of a rivet) into the plywood at specific measured points along the lines that I had drawn. This gave me my required radii. The router turned on the steel pin quite nicely.
I had found an odd bit of play that had been painted, so it slid across the work surface easily, you may have to varnish or similar to achieve this, though it isn't crucial.
After a few tests (important) you will get quite handy at measuring where to drill the pin hole. Make sure the hole is slighly smaller than the pin, and bang it in so that it does not fall out at the wrong moment.
If this description is a bit long winded and not understandable, I can post a photo. Let me know.
I came up with a very simple solution in the end:
I removed the plastic piece that is attached to the bottom of the router, that slides across the wood, and attached a piece of 10mm ply instead, using the same screws/bolts.
I countersunk the bolts so that the heads were inside the ply. The ply was the same width as the router base in one dimension and about 40cm long in the other.
I then drew lines on the ply that exactly crossed the centre, which corresponded with the centre of the router. Oh, I had drilled a 40mm hole in the centre of the ply to allow the router bits to do their job.
I then inserted a smooth steel pin (I used the shaft of a rivet) into the plywood at specific measured points along the lines that I had drawn. This gave me my required radii. The router turned on the steel pin quite nicely.
I had found an odd bit of play that had been painted, so it slid across the work surface easily, you may have to varnish or similar to achieve this, though it isn't crucial.
After a few tests (important) you will get quite handy at measuring where to drill the pin hole. Make sure the hole is slighly smaller than the pin, and bang it in so that it does not fall out at the wrong moment.
If this description is a bit long winded and not understandable, I can post a photo. Let me know.
dublin78: Very good. I have been doing it that way for years (too cheap to buy a jig, DIY forum remember). I've refined mine by routing a recess in the plywood (with the router) for the router to fit in, with it's faceplate still attached. It has wingnuts and big washers that clamp it in place. Fast and easy.
Thanks all of you for your great ideas.
I guess I will have to hange up the coping saw and jig saw and buy one of them new fangled router thingamagigies!!!
These speakers were supposed to save me money!!!
I will have to figure out how to get this by the wife now!!!
Ian
I guess I will have to hange up the coping saw and jig saw and buy one of them new fangled router thingamagigies!!!
These speakers were supposed to save me money!!!
I will have to figure out how to get this by the wife now!!!
Ian
Loboone said:
Wow, did you say coping saw? That would be fun.
I only use the router for the recess. I still cut the hole with a jigsaw - it's much faster, and no burned bits.
Threaten to cut her off (sexually) if she doesn't let you buy it.🙂 🙂 🙂
Vikash said:
I don't remember saying anything... However you might be able to throw in a slightly peaking 2nd-order high-pass to gain a little more extension and cut waffle.
back onto the plywood finish...
I received methods on howto do a real nice finish to raw plywood, using the following method:
"polyurethane (oil based, Sherwin Williams or any oil
based varnish gloss) mixed 60% poly - 40% mineral spirits (maybe stiffer
weather permitting) and applied like a tung oil. Brush on and wipe off
about 3 - 8 coats (24 hrs between coats min) sanding with 320 grit on a
padded block. Then use a nice beeswax diluted into min. spirits (shave
the beeswax with a chisel a few days ahead) add lilac or juniper oil
-maybe some cheap perfume. Apply wax with #0000 steel wool and buff with
cotton. And you have a faux French polish that will wear better than
shellac. Has a stronger film against abrasion and moisture than tung.
Smells good too. Basically this is Simon Watts and Jason La Trobe
Bateman's finish, cabinetmakers to the Rothchilds, drawers and furniture
etc. Some of the better Italian finishers inspect the cotton seed fields
the varnish is squished from, Varnish-o-philes. TC"
now the 2 questions are:
1. there has been a few debates I've come across doing a google on what 'mineral spirits' is here in aussieland. So basically I can use a paint thinner as mineral turps to thin down the polyurethane?
2. Polyurethane - any sort of external solvent based polyurethane glossy timber finish, or floor finish from local hardware stores?
I received methods on howto do a real nice finish to raw plywood, using the following method:
"polyurethane (oil based, Sherwin Williams or any oil
based varnish gloss) mixed 60% poly - 40% mineral spirits (maybe stiffer
weather permitting) and applied like a tung oil. Brush on and wipe off
about 3 - 8 coats (24 hrs between coats min) sanding with 320 grit on a
padded block. Then use a nice beeswax diluted into min. spirits (shave
the beeswax with a chisel a few days ahead) add lilac or juniper oil
-maybe some cheap perfume. Apply wax with #0000 steel wool and buff with
cotton. And you have a faux French polish that will wear better than
shellac. Has a stronger film against abrasion and moisture than tung.
Smells good too. Basically this is Simon Watts and Jason La Trobe
Bateman's finish, cabinetmakers to the Rothchilds, drawers and furniture
etc. Some of the better Italian finishers inspect the cotton seed fields
the varnish is squished from, Varnish-o-philes. TC"
now the 2 questions are:
1. there has been a few debates I've come across doing a google on what 'mineral spirits' is here in aussieland. So basically I can use a paint thinner as mineral turps to thin down the polyurethane?
2. Polyurethane - any sort of external solvent based polyurethane glossy timber finish, or floor finish from local hardware stores?
stevodude said:
Good finish! Takes some time though, the results should be worth it.
Answers:
1. Mineral spirits = white spirits. Oil based paint thinner. A brand name here is Varsol.
2. Polyurethane can be interior or exterior grade. Solvent based from the hardware store. I've used gallons of the stuff, but recently switched to the water-based version. I find it to be a tougher finish and there are the other benefits such as non-toxic, fast drying, water cleanup.
Vikash
Your small plywood cabinets have similarities in what I'm trying to achieve with a pair of floor standers in birch ply.
However unlike yours I'm wanting the chamfer at the front, but no exposed edges on the sides or tops [all mitre joints] have you tried doing this ?
I also wanted the front face to be stained a darker colour than the others, have you experimented with this and the problem of seepage into the end grain ?
Hopefully my rendered image may explain what I'm after in more detail!
Your small plywood cabinets have similarities in what I'm trying to achieve with a pair of floor standers in birch ply.
However unlike yours I'm wanting the chamfer at the front, but no exposed edges on the sides or tops [all mitre joints] have you tried doing this ?
I also wanted the front face to be stained a darker colour than the others, have you experimented with this and the problem of seepage into the end grain ?
Hopefully my rendered image may explain what I'm after in more detail!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hi, no can't say that I have tried mitred joints with plywood, or tried staining just a face of the ply.
Your design looks very nice. What did you use to draw it up?
I do like showing off ply end grain, even with chamfered butt joints it can look really nice. And a contrasting grill instead of painting/staining the front face:
V
Your design looks very nice. What did you use to draw it up?
I do like showing off ply end grain, even with chamfered butt joints it can look really nice. And a contrasting grill instead of painting/staining the front face:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
V
To get the black front panel perhaps you could paint/stain the panel prior to assembly, use butt joints with the front panel 'inset' then chamfer the edge of the side and top/bottom panels to get the angle? Then you would have no bleed issues.
Vikash
I use 3d Studio Max for rendering my designs, though I'm looking at learning solid works so that my designs can go strait to CNC
richie00boy
I did think about that, staining the front of the whole board, then processing [cutting, CNC] to get the nice end grain showing without bleed. I think it's do able and gets rid of the expensive walnut veneering process I'd used previously on birch ply to achieve a chocolate coloured finish to the panels.
I use 3d Studio Max for rendering my designs, though I'm looking at learning solid works so that my designs can go strait to CNC
richie00boy
I did think about that, staining the front of the whole board, then processing [cutting, CNC] to get the nice end grain showing without bleed. I think it's do able and gets rid of the expensive walnut veneering process I'd used previously on birch ply to achieve a chocolate coloured finish to the panels.
no 320.....then 600....1200???
i would use 180 for sanding the endgrains/board edges of ply smooth, id be a little hesitant to try and sand the veneered face for too long with it. (i had a bad experience with a belt sander and 180 on some MDF...)
IM no expert, but from what woodword ive done over the years i have been told, and learnt the hard way, to go finer and finer until the finish is good. I would use minimum 320 grit on the veneered face, and in fact id probably just take more time and stick with 600 wet n dry, just to be cautious, but thats just me.
it certainly looks good from a distance, pity i cant see closer though. I doubt my mentor (spanish guitar maker here in the midlands) would agree that 150 grit would give a 'good' finish though, and without seeing it close up and without said guitar maker showing me that, i think id have to dismiss that, and continue with my normal sanding routine!
lol i was looking for a good method to finish birch myself, and didnt really find anything new, apart from the 'rubbed varnish method' someone described a couple of posts up. I like that idea, hard work though.
i might just stick with the water based varnish i was thinking of using
i might just stick with the water based varnish i was thinking of using
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