''question for ye finishing experts: anyone got a favourite stain / dye for plywood?''
Scott.....The list is as endless and open as the question....
biggest deciding factor in my book would be making sure its compatible with the finishing stuff, e.g don't use spirit based stain with oil or varnish type of finish or vice versa....
me, I'm a spirit based-french polish type of guy which means I can get away with anything water based as well, like tea or red wine...I detest oil and varnish finishes, but having said that I know they are usually easier.
Best advice...suck it and see, on a piece of waste of course(just like greg did).
Regards
Ed
Scott.....The list is as endless and open as the question....
biggest deciding factor in my book would be making sure its compatible with the finishing stuff, e.g don't use spirit based stain with oil or varnish type of finish or vice versa....
me, I'm a spirit based-french polish type of guy which means I can get away with anything water based as well, like tea or red wine...I detest oil and varnish finishes, but having said that I know they are usually easier.
Best advice...suck it and see, on a piece of waste of course(just like greg did).
Regards
Ed
Hi Ray
coincidence, coincidence....I was looking at the fonkens that somebody posted on the F2 thread in Pass Labs. At the time it occured to me that I would have veneered that ply edge with 1mm modelling ply - the whole edge - would then match the cab and could be finished with the same stuff as the cab.....
just a thought
Ed
coincidence, coincidence....I was looking at the fonkens that somebody posted on the F2 thread in Pass Labs. At the time it occured to me that I would have veneered that ply edge with 1mm modelling ply - the whole edge - would then match the cab and could be finished with the same stuff as the cab.....
just a thought
Ed
Finishing is all about preparation. Plywood may feel smooth and look smooth, but it can be improved. I sand with a 5" random orbit sander first with 100 grit, then 400 grit. Sanding always with the grain of the wood(veneer), the 100 grit cleans it up, the 400 makes it smooth. Some say rougher sanding gives a more even staining job, I say you are filling the scratches left from the sandpaper with stain. If you squint your eyes, and look at it from across the room it looks ok.
A quality stain job can't be done in one coat, it takes at least 2. Patience is required, because you have to wait for the coats to dry - usually 24 hours. If you try to put on another coat before the first is dry, it will desolve the first coat. Stay away from water based stains - they dry too fast, especially on large objects. I use an oil-based brush on stain. I brush it on, let it sit for 15-20 minutes, then I wipe it off with a clean rag. This first coat acts as a conditioner - the next coat will be more even. Use of this type of stain does not limit your options as far as clear finish goes, it just has to be completely dry first. Polyurethane is easy to apply, and gives good results. If applied by brush, it should be sanded with fine(220 grit) sandpaper or fine steel wool between coats. Again , let the finish dry completely before the next coat.
Water based polyurethane in very tough and durable. It doesn't yellow like the oil based version, it's easier to clean up and drys quicker. It's probably the best choice for the DIYer.
Shellac (French polish) can look amazing and requires no special tools to create a truely stunning finish. The downside is maintenence, wax is what gives it it's lustre, and needs to be renewed occasionally. Not a problem if you like polishing things.
These are a few hard earned tips I've picked up from professionals and my own mistakes.
Have fun.
A quality stain job can't be done in one coat, it takes at least 2. Patience is required, because you have to wait for the coats to dry - usually 24 hours. If you try to put on another coat before the first is dry, it will desolve the first coat. Stay away from water based stains - they dry too fast, especially on large objects. I use an oil-based brush on stain. I brush it on, let it sit for 15-20 minutes, then I wipe it off with a clean rag. This first coat acts as a conditioner - the next coat will be more even. Use of this type of stain does not limit your options as far as clear finish goes, it just has to be completely dry first. Polyurethane is easy to apply, and gives good results. If applied by brush, it should be sanded with fine(220 grit) sandpaper or fine steel wool between coats. Again , let the finish dry completely before the next coat.
Water based polyurethane in very tough and durable. It doesn't yellow like the oil based version, it's easier to clean up and drys quicker. It's probably the best choice for the DIYer.
Shellac (French polish) can look amazing and requires no special tools to create a truely stunning finish. The downside is maintenence, wax is what gives it it's lustre, and needs to be renewed occasionally. Not a problem if you like polishing things.
These are a few hard earned tips I've picked up from professionals and my own mistakes.
Have fun.
MJL21193,
My experience with finishing has been about the same as yours. I use 80 grit for the initial sanding on plywood; it seems to prep the surface for better stain penetration. Do you use a sealer?
I have all but abandoned brushes for wipe-on applications using cotton swatches. The Poly finishes are best suited for me since I am NOT a dedicated polisher.
It is always good to pick-up new approaches or variations on what I am doing. Thanks for sharing yours!
Ray
My experience with finishing has been about the same as yours. I use 80 grit for the initial sanding on plywood; it seems to prep the surface for better stain penetration. Do you use a sealer?
I have all but abandoned brushes for wipe-on applications using cotton swatches. The Poly finishes are best suited for me since I am NOT a dedicated polisher.
It is always good to pick-up new approaches or variations on what I am doing. Thanks for sharing yours!
Ray
I haven't read the whole thread, but I'd like to second poobah's comment on Vikash's post #31: What can be seen in the right photo doesn't seem to be blotchiness, it's shimmering that's actually often wanted (and probably can't be hidden anyway if it's in the wood). I think the effect of what I'd call anisotropic reflection is due to the varying directions of the wood fibers. I like this shimmering that I see when I look at some veneers under varying angles. I have some mahogany veneer here that shows beautiful striped reflections (even unfinished).
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Ray Collins said:
If I'm just doing clear finish, I start with first coat of whatever I'm using thinned 10%. This will raise the grain(it'll feel rough). I then sand with fine paper and put the next coat full strength.
For stain, no I dont't use a sealer. I find better result are possible with multiple coats. It's immportant to do a even sanding first though. Sometimes, especially on hardwood, the sanding can "burnish" the wood. This usually only happened with a belt sander with a fine grit, but it can happen with hand sanding.
Burnished wood will not absorb stain as well. Make sure the sandpaper is not clogged and sharp enough.
Use edge banding on the edge of plywood to get a consistant finish. Never a problem to find a match for whatever wood you are using. Its cheap and easy(iron on). With a heat gun it can even be used in round port holes.
Bevels were done in the tablesaw. Feed it through really slowly so that feels like it's almost being pulled through by itself and you will get really flat and burn free cuts (I use a 80 tooth blade) I on;y mention it because I've butchered a few pieces by feeding too fast. Or even better, pass it through a second time but move the fence in a fraction of a mm and get even better finish.
V
V
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1001632#post1001632
Sealer applied with brush, then scraped flat, and wax applied with cloth. Easy as pie.
Sealer applied with brush, then scraped flat, and wax applied with cloth. Easy as pie.
I am currently priming a set of MDF Cyburg needles with an oil primer in prep for a satin/semi-gloss white finish.
Just laid the first coat and was going to sand them down tomorrow evening, this thread caught my eye for the first time tonight.
Question: Can I scrape in between coats or should I still be using wet/dry paper for this application?
thanks
Just laid the first coat and was going to sand them down tomorrow evening, this thread caught my eye for the first time tonight.
Question: Can I scrape in between coats or should I still be using wet/dry paper for this application?
thanks
Just read the first three pages of this thread, I felt obliged to comment. My business partner in the speaker/acoustics/electronics biz.. his dad ran the last real plywood plant in North America. Nippigon, Ontario. Hockey stick shafts were one of their prized creations. Only the Finns can compete.
The problem..is one of TIME.
Proper plywood manufacturing requires the knowledge, the lore, and TIME.
This is why no-one can get a good finish on modern plywoods. Be it Finn, Russian, Canada's finest, etc. The plywood is actually....crap.
I found ONE source that MIGHT play out, from Kruger (a plywood manufacturer), and that might be their LAST production line were the plywood is made correctly but the wood is incredibly pricey.
The problem..is one of TIME.
Proper plywood manufacturing requires the knowledge, the lore, and TIME.
This is why no-one can get a good finish on modern plywoods. Be it Finn, Russian, Canada's finest, etc. The plywood is actually....crap.
I found ONE source that MIGHT play out, from Kruger (a plywood manufacturer), and that might be their LAST production line were the plywood is made correctly but the wood is incredibly pricey.
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