Andrew T - I've attached the hornresp maximum output. At low frequencies it's limited by the .35mm displacement but it's still at 100+db from about 65 hz on up. Based on this I would expect decent bass down to 65-70hz. I'll know better when I take some in-room measurements. If I had a good sounding sub I would probably roll this horn off at 80-85 hz.
Denis
Denis
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Assume 110dB/m from a single speaker.
That would give a maximum of 113dB/m for a stereo pair.
At a seating position of ~2.5m the maximum SPL ~105dB.
That allows a maximum average listening level of between 75dB (30dB peak to average) and 95dB (10dB peak to average).
a speaker with an upper bass max SPL ~100dB/m will never sound powerful nor right.
Rolling this speaker off at around 130 to 140Hz allows good SPL on transients.
That is what prompted my question.
How low dare we go with this BLH when 1W takes it to bass Xmax?
That would give a maximum of 113dB/m for a stereo pair.
At a seating position of ~2.5m the maximum SPL ~105dB.
That allows a maximum average listening level of between 75dB (30dB peak to average) and 95dB (10dB peak to average).
a speaker with an upper bass max SPL ~100dB/m will never sound powerful nor right.
Rolling this speaker off at around 130 to 140Hz allows good SPL on transients.
That is what prompted my question.
How low dare we go with this BLH when 1W takes it to bass Xmax?
Andrew - It's probably asking too much of a 4.5 inch single driver to ever be considered "powerful". The obvious answer is to get a smaller amplifier.😉
I'm attaching a revised drawing. It has some small changes to reflect the as-built speaker. Probably most useful; I've specified the cut angles. Surprisingly there are only a handful of different angles required.
I'm attaching a revised drawing. It has some small changes to reflect the as-built speaker. Probably most useful; I've specified the cut angles. Surprisingly there are only a handful of different angles required.
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thanks that will help with im ready to build, when should you get your driver. please post pics of it when it does get in.
Dear Denis,
This must be the simplest and easiest horn on the planet to make and looks a long way from the previous stuff most of which looks as though it was just copied from previous designs.
Fair play to you for persevering and for coming up with something that will soon be made by enthusiasts all over the planet.
I expect it will become the benchmark design for back firing horns.
It's been really nice to see someone transparently honest and open about the plan every time you posted.
I'm sure that Dr Buschhorn would be very pleased if you were to take his original concept for a 3" driver and turn that into something a similar height to the Bugelhorn.
Jem
This must be the simplest and easiest horn on the planet to make and looks a long way from the previous stuff most of which looks as though it was just copied from previous designs.
Fair play to you for persevering and for coming up with something that will soon be made by enthusiasts all over the planet.
I expect it will become the benchmark design for back firing horns.
It's been really nice to see someone transparently honest and open about the plan every time you posted.
I'm sure that Dr Buschhorn would be very pleased if you were to take his original concept for a 3" driver and turn that into something a similar height to the Bugelhorn.
Jem
Patiently awaiting final pics and a review of the sound. You don't happen to have a pair of the original frugelhorns to compare against do you?
chuyler1 said:
I wish I did. Is there anyone in the Boston area (I live near Framingham) with Frugals, or anything else, who would like to take part in a comparison?
dhenryp said:
y'all could always make a road trip to SC - I understand some folks even get out of the compound will all their appendages intact, if not their sanity . 😀
LOL, I'm glad I asked! I live in Millis and happen to have a set built from the Flat-Pack (no suprabaffle or deflector though).dhenryp said:
chuyler1 said:
Great! I'm still a ways from having a properly completed set of horns.
chrisb - Thanks for the offer. I'll reciprocate and even pretty much guarantee to return all parts. Can't say much about sanity - I'm not familiar with it myself.
Just drop me a message when you're done and we'll have a little listening party or something. Anyone else in the area on this forum that you know of?
dhenryp said:
I trust you realize the first part was a childish barb directed towards the little old horne-maker, whose "compound" is in South Carolina - just mention Frugalhorn & or EnABL when you ring the security buzzer, and a warm welcome is assured
forget the Kevlar vest, they're trained to start with the disabling knee shot
that's almost a joke
as for the second part, I thought it went without saying that long time practitioners of the DIY-arts long abandoned any pretense of sanity - I guarantee you my better half would support that thesis
Detail of the Styrofoam block in the CC. I glued up four sheets to get the full 5.5 inch width. I've angled the front edge to to reduce reflections back to the rear of the driver. Hornresp seems to strongly call for the the pretty small 1.3 liter volume. I'm going to just screw (no glue) the last side on until I'm convinced I have the right volume. That way I can take it off and cut down the Styrofoam block if needed.
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Here is one speaker all together and set up for measurements. Notes:
- the driver is a bone stock fe126e that has been broken in with test signals for ~50 hours.
- The last side is just screwed on, no glue so the seal probably is not perfect
- The CC is currently set to about 1.5 liters
- Only one speaker is together connected to one channel of a T-Amp which is connected to on channel of a DVD/CD player (Oppo) - not ideal listening conditions
So how does it sound? It sounds good. There is plenty of bass and even with the puny T-Amp set to a fraction of its gain I can play louder than I care to listen. I listened for a short while to piano, acoustic guitar and female voice (Mary Chapin Carpenter) and it was initially startling to hear it sound so "here". The upper midrange sounds a little raw but I attribute that mostly to a raw unmodified driver.
Measurements are coming in following posts.
- the driver is a bone stock fe126e that has been broken in with test signals for ~50 hours.
- The last side is just screwed on, no glue so the seal probably is not perfect
- The CC is currently set to about 1.5 liters
- Only one speaker is together connected to one channel of a T-Amp which is connected to on channel of a DVD/CD player (Oppo) - not ideal listening conditions
So how does it sound? It sounds good. There is plenty of bass and even with the puny T-Amp set to a fraction of its gain I can play louder than I care to listen. I listened for a short while to piano, acoustic guitar and female voice (Mary Chapin Carpenter) and it was initially startling to hear it sound so "here". The upper midrange sounds a little raw but I attribute that mostly to a raw unmodified driver.
Measurements are coming in following posts.
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I've made a set of initial measurements using a Smith and Larson Speaker Tester. These are my first measurements with a new setup. Take them with a grain of salt but they seem to match pretty well with hornresp predictions. The horn was placed about one foot from a corner. The mike was moved from the mouth to the driver and finally about two meters away, on axis for a combined response.
The first is the output at the mouth of the horn.
The first is the output at the mouth of the horn.
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Finally, the third measurement is combined with the microphone 2 meters away on axis and the speaker a foot from the corner.
It looks pretty much like hornresp with a 10 db bump in the bass where the horn comes in and good extension down to 50hz or less.
Maybe somebody can give me suggestions how to tame the bass bump at ~180hz. I haven't played around much with other positions in the room.
As always, comments are welcomed.
It looks pretty much like hornresp with a 10 db bump in the bass where the horn comes in and good extension down to 50hz or less.
Maybe somebody can give me suggestions how to tame the bass bump at ~180hz. I haven't played around much with other positions in the room.
As always, comments are welcomed.
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Here is one more combined plot, this time with the speaker about four feet from the back wall and two feet from a side wall. The mic is still about two meters away on axis.
The way I interpret this one (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the the bump is now somewhat reduced to two smaller spikes because of no longer being fully corner loaded. It looks like the rising top end is showing now because the bass, and midrange to some extent, is no longer being boosted as much. This boost seemed to almost perfectly compensate for the rising top end in the previous plot.
The way I interpret this one (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the the bump is now somewhat reduced to two smaller spikes because of no longer being fully corner loaded. It looks like the rising top end is showing now because the bass, and midrange to some extent, is no longer being boosted as much. This boost seemed to almost perfectly compensate for the rising top end in the previous plot.
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