Big 3way Floorstanding loudspeaker

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#61
No idea how the others are doing it but Tannoy DCs crossover from where the cone starts beaming at 90deg to the 90deg conical tweeter horn or waveguide with a little bit of overlap. That is the 12 dB lo pass does not use perfectly aligned cap and inductor but the inductor starts rolling off a little bit before the parallel cap kicks in so the woofer starts rolling off at 6dB for a bit, then the slope steepens to 12dB.
I had all the numbers worked out for my 12" but lost them over the years.

Pre 1990 drivers use a horn and thus require an additional little notch filter, post '90 drivers use a waveguide which does not need that notch or the 6dB of 'boost' from 6kHz.
In fact the horn behaves essentially like a constant directivity horn but despite making drivers like that since '48 Tannoy never called it that or patented that feature.
 
#62
navin said:
1. A 10" with a PR is not the same as 2 10" in a sealed box. The later will (all things remaining equal) give you better transient response and cleaner bass. PR systems are primarily bass systems but with a sealed 10" you can go as high as 300hz (which means cheaper XO components if you are going passive) which means you can use a smaller mid (which will give better dispersion for the upper mids).

2. A PR is in most respects equal to a port. You avoid the port noise but loose some transient response as the PR's mass has intertia.

If you are looking a 2 way + subwoofer (the Dayton you have specified above is a subwoofer) then please consider the SEAS L26ROY or Peerless XXLS instead. SEAS sells a matched PR for the L26. I dont know about Peerless.

So are you looking at building a 2 way + subwoofer or a 3 way? Your driver choice will not be the same.
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Sure you can push a 10" to 2000hz. There are many large "fullrange" drivers that exceed 10" diameter but I dont think this is a design gforse is looking at.
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I whant to build a 3way. I can always add a subwoofer. But i do whant a floorstandig loudspeaker that is colurfull with detail. And plays verry easy, when you have low volume the bass is there and when jou turn it up it realy kicks in. So a loudspeaker with a big sound. The logic whay is to build a proven system. But as you no i didn't find the right one.

The current speaker i have are old philips 22 serie. And the woofer are brocken. i also have 2 manacor pa speaker. that sounds like crap. i one's had it from a friend. So i finale do whant a good and impressif speaker. So if you now a good design or youvhave some tips and trics let me now. The shape of the cabinet is no problem, i can always redesign the cabinet. i'm also still open to start from scrats. But i prefer a proven system
 
#63
Gforse,

If you are looking to build a proper 3 way you need to focus on woofers (no subwoofers or PRs) that will go to about 300Hz. This will allow you to use a smaller midrange/midbass driver that has beeter dispersion and can cover the "critcal decade" (300-3000Hz) well. The Troels DTQWT is probably the best fit from the published designs.
 
#64
gforse said:
I whant to build a 3way. I can always add a subwoofer. But i do whant a floorstandig loudspeaker that is colurfull with detail. And plays verry easy, when you have low volume the bass is there and when jou turn it up it realy kicks in. So a loudspeaker with a big sound. The logic whay is to build a proven system.
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You need something like this.
211004d1298405345-ciare-design-idea-schermafbeelding-2011-02-22-om-21.06.21.png

see here
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/183727-ciare-design-idea.html

Or you shout go to speakerland there you can listen already build designs. Vivace is a proven design.
Vifa Vivace
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
 
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#68
Helmuth said:
You need something like this.
211004d1298405345-ciare-design-idea-schermafbeelding-2011-02-22-om-21.06.21.png

see here
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/183727-ciare-design-idea.html
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Did you ever build these speakers?

I also listen once to a vifa format and a vifa basis. and i liked the basis a lot bud also the format, the format is fits also better in my budget. i was wondering if there are new design of the format. or new look al like's

Or is it a idea to buy these speakers secondhands and put them in a new cabinet and so? the don't cost a lot and i do learn a lot?
 
#69
i just got minidsp the other day, now using it with alp10bass + 5.

highly recommended. just pick any drivers u want, suitable to ur taste and dynamics need.

then plug in minidsp for u crossover. u can have at least 100+ settings possible with them.

i believe this is the future of speaker building.

cheers
henry
 
#73
gforse said:
I can't find in your topic that you build the speakers. but you did designed a hole plan.

I know the best is to build a proven system, and i whant to do that bud i didn't find a systems i liked within my budget.
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A lot of beginners want to build proven project for a small budget.

These are links gforce
This one was 700euro. I have a pdf of this one.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/130857-high-end-3-way-dappolito-aluminiumcone.html

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/183727-ciare-design-idea.html
 
#74
The Dappolito is a nice design! but not within my taste. maybe is have to rethink what i want for my budget? a double 10''woofer design is expensive. but like you mentioned the ciare is a nice design within more or less in my budget. it's a lot of thinking what i want
 
#75
gforse said:
The Dappolito is a nice design! but not within my taste. maybe is have to rethink what i want for my budget? a double 10''woofer design is expensive. but like you mentioned the ciare is a nice design within more or less in my budget. it's a lot of thinking what i want
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it will be around 1200 euro. The ciare design has to be tested on the crossover design.

The bandpass MK2 design is cheap and MK1 has proven that it sounds very pleasant good full distortion free warm bass and detailed high tones of the dt300.
link:http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/137036-big-bandpass-fatboy.html
To make a good sounding sub-bas is the fundament of the total sound it can make the sound impressive or to thin with a poor bass response.
205045d1294825200-big-bandpass-fatboy-mk2-ba.jpg
 
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#76
gforse said:
The Dappolito is a nice design! but not within my taste. maybe is have to rethink what i want for my budget? a double 10''woofer design is expensive. but like you mentioned the ciare is a nice design within more or less in my budget. it's a lot of thinking what i want
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While a ready design is your best option most of them will exceed your $800/pr limit.

At $400 per side for drivers you would have to look at say $200 for the woofers, $120 for the midrange/midbass, and $80 for the tweeter. The midrange is the most critical part of the audio spectrum as the ear is most senstive here hence this is where I would start.

Options can be any of the Beyma, B&C or 18sound 6" fullranges or even something like the Tangband W6-789E or W6-658i could be be used to cover 200-4K. Keep these drivers in the 92db+ range this will allow you to still mate them well with a pair of woofers each having a sensitvity of 87-89db/1Watt.

Beyma
6P200Nd - Beyma 6,5” low frequency loudspeaker - Europe Audio
18sound
Eighteen Sound Speakers - Eighteen Sound 6ND430 - Eighteen Sound 6ND430 6.5" woofer has a lightweight neodymium magnet. Eighteen Sound 6ND430 6.5" subwoofers are available here. 18 Sound speaker components. $130
B&C
B&C 6NDL38 is a lighweight neodymium 6.5" speaker - B&C Speakers - B&C 6.5" speaker for 2 or 3-way sytems. B&C 6NDL38 lightweight neodymium speakers available now. $130
Tangband
W6-789E - TB speakers 6.5 inch paper midbass die cast basket - Europe Audio


For the bass you could use 2 10" woofers that you desire
2 x Peerless SLS 10 $56 each
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=1705
or
2 x Dayton RS270 @ $85 each
Dayton Audio RS270-8 10" Reference Woofer
or
2 x SEAS CA26RE4X $125 each.
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_228_258&products_id=1654

for the tweeter you can used the famed Aurum Cantus 2Gsi,Fountek Neo3.0,
or Vi RT2II ribbon drivers. Any of these are about $80 each.
Aurum Cantus 2Gsi
Aurum Cantus G2Si Ribbon Tweeter
Fountek NeoCd3
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_236&products_id=1389
Hi-Vi RT2II
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_236&products_id=8233

The advantage wide range midbass drivers offer is that you can build a simpler crossover. Doped paper woofers may not be as articulate as their metal coned counterparts but they dont have severe break up nodes either. The output of the 10" wofoers can be used to compensate for baffle step.
 
#78
To make a good sounding sub-bas is the fundament of the total sound it can make the sound impressive or to thin with a poor bass response.
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HELMUTH,

i couldn't agree more, only just recently when i finished the OB with 15" beta, i realised how much the bass involved for the whole sound, although i cross them @200hz.

cheers
henry
 
#79
Hello Navin,

Thanks for the advice. they are very interesting drivers for not much money

for the lower part i prefer the Peerless SLS10, i once hear it and it surprised me what out put en also deep and detail it is for his money.

What would you recomend mid and high by the SLS10 ?

does some one now a project that have a SLS10 ?

I saw a project of a sls10 as a transmission line

and this project ( its in dutch) forum.zelfbouwaudio.nl • Toon onderwerp - Cappuccino Crescendo: 3-weg Peerless zuilen
You can look at the picture's. i like the design but i would chose a different tweeter and woofer.
 
#80
gforse said:
for the lower part i prefer the Peerless SLS10
What would you recomend mid and high by the SLS10 ?
You can look at the picture's. i like the design but i would chose a different tweeter and woofer.
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I have not heard the SLS but have heard the SEAS woofer. However the SLS is half the price of the SEAS woofer and hence should be excellent value.

One could build a really VFM system (driver cost around $300 per pair) using 2 SLS woofers with say the Tangband W6-789 and the Vifa DXTG tweeter linked below.
DX25TG09-04 - Vifa 1 inch dome tweeter fabric diaphragm high sensitivity - Europe Audio
Europe Audio

I like the idea of using wide range drivers in the midrange.

a. It offer the opportunity to have one driver to cover the critical 200-4000Hz range

b. If allows one to use simpler shallower crossover slopes as wide range drivers usually have controlled break up nodes in their mid band.
 
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