When i see those dustcaps in place i cringe. You must remove them. If you were 30 to 50 feet away from them then leave them on... i am about 7 or 8 feet from mine. I was happy to see the measurements posted reinforce what i heard... cut out the dustcap and add a phase plug for even further smoooooothness. Then add a sub. I can't wait to hear mine in ob... if i prefer them in sealed boxes i will put them back.
I'd expect yours to sound light in the bass. Thin baffles. But it must be efficient. Do you even hear that dome tweeter?
Zilla
I'd expect yours to sound light in the bass. Thin baffles. But it must be efficient. Do you even hear that dome tweeter?
Zilla
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I know from the info that's been presented on this thread that I want to modify the drivers, but I had to listen to them stock first. I do run subs.
yes, thin in the base. I just used the pieces of ply for baffles as proof of concept. If it gets close I'll cut wood that's not just shop scraps.
I also have a pair of 18" Cerwin Vega woofers which I'm thinking could be in an H frame firing out of the side of the baffle at ground level. This will get me to the subs better.
I had the dome tweeter for another project for a friend, so I "borrowed" them. Yes, they are audible and add something needed.
Alas I have to work today, But I'll fool around later...........Evan
yes, thin in the base. I just used the pieces of ply for baffles as proof of concept. If it gets close I'll cut wood that's not just shop scraps.
I also have a pair of 18" Cerwin Vega woofers which I'm thinking could be in an H frame firing out of the side of the baffle at ground level. This will get me to the subs better.
I had the dome tweeter for another project for a friend, so I "borrowed" them. Yes, they are audible and add something needed.
Alas I have to work today, But I'll fool around later...........Evan
OK so here's what I did so far
Cut out the dust caps. Some improvement, but the shout that was still being produced actually hurt my ears.
I crossed the tweeter lower. 2uF
I made the notch filter do more. 1mh. 2uF, 15R. This made the biggest difference. Now I can actualy listen. This isn't the sollution I want. Seems wasteful of my limited power.
Any way at this point they sound OK. But my Ariels aren't moving to the basement yet.........
Evan
Cut out the dust caps. Some improvement, but the shout that was still being produced actually hurt my ears.
I crossed the tweeter lower. 2uF
I made the notch filter do more. 1mh. 2uF, 15R. This made the biggest difference. Now I can actualy listen. This isn't the sollution I want. Seems wasteful of my limited power.
Any way at this point they sound OK. But my Ariels aren't moving to the basement yet.........
Evan
the amp is a tubelab se with #45 tubes...about 2 watts
I have solid state amps to use for bass augmentation
When I first plugged these speakers in the midrange was overwhelming. And was super annoying at what seemed like one particular frequency. A notch filter seemed like a good idea to get them listenable. I had the inductor so that value is fixed. The drivers are parallel...4ohm.
I know my set up is crude and my knowledge little, but these seem like inexpensive, yet capable enough drivers for me to play with and learn. Reading is great, but I need to have an example in front of me to work with for the info to get in. Anyway critiques and peoples ideas on what "their" right way is to improve things is what I want.
Thanks, Evan
I have solid state amps to use for bass augmentation
When I first plugged these speakers in the midrange was overwhelming. And was super annoying at what seemed like one particular frequency. A notch filter seemed like a good idea to get them listenable. I had the inductor so that value is fixed. The drivers are parallel...4ohm.
I know my set up is crude and my knowledge little, but these seem like inexpensive, yet capable enough drivers for me to play with and learn. Reading is great, but I need to have an example in front of me to work with for the info to get in. Anyway critiques and peoples ideas on what "their" right way is to improve things is what I want.
Thanks, Evan
At the risk of sounding like a broken record (scratched CD, corrupted MP3, whatever) the small investment in a MiniDSP will reward you many times over.
You can set any active EQ curve you like, croosover to a tweeter (or helper woofer), listen, change and listen again.
If the sound quality is acceptable, you can leave it there and the job's right.
If the sound quality is not good enough for you, at least you will know what curve you need from an active EQ. Build one, make it's curve match the one you decided on with the MiniDSP and put the MiniDSP in the cupboard until your next build.
Like a soldering iron, a CRO, or a calibrated mic, a MiniDSP can be a vital aid to the design and optimisation process.
No, I don't work for them: but I wish I had shares in the company....
Coda:
It is also a very instructive lesson to spend an hour or so 'flattening' the frequency response of a humble / mundane system. Unless it is a real dud, it should be possible to get almost anything flat within 2dB or so over a decent frequency range. Listening to such a system tells you a lot about what matters and what doesn't in system performance.
You can set any active EQ curve you like, croosover to a tweeter (or helper woofer), listen, change and listen again.
If the sound quality is acceptable, you can leave it there and the job's right.
If the sound quality is not good enough for you, at least you will know what curve you need from an active EQ. Build one, make it's curve match the one you decided on with the MiniDSP and put the MiniDSP in the cupboard until your next build.
Like a soldering iron, a CRO, or a calibrated mic, a MiniDSP can be a vital aid to the design and optimisation process.
No, I don't work for them: but I wish I had shares in the company....
Coda:
It is also a very instructive lesson to spend an hour or so 'flattening' the frequency response of a humble / mundane system. Unless it is a real dud, it should be possible to get almost anything flat within 2dB or so over a decent frequency range. Listening to such a system tells you a lot about what matters and what doesn't in system performance.
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blakkshepeaudio, can I ask you a question? It's something I've not been able to understand. If you're going to make a 4-way system with minidsp, doesn't that mean you need 4 independent amps for each set of drivers? Or is this totally mistaken? Looking at the inputs and outputs, I can't understand how it works any other way.
You understand. Signal level crossover requires amp per band.
Also, most mechanical solution to the 12LTA response curve I can think of is a Deltapro 15A (instead of dual LTA's) with a 12dB oct lowpass at 500-700Hz. This would get you the 100dB low-end the 12LTA doesn't have. This wouldn't smooth the 4-5dB swings in the top end of the LTA that would probably still stand out.
Also, most mechanical solution to the 12LTA response curve I can think of is a Deltapro 15A (instead of dual LTA's) with a 12dB oct lowpass at 500-700Hz. This would get you the 100dB low-end the 12LTA doesn't have. This wouldn't smooth the 4-5dB swings in the top end of the LTA that would probably still stand out.
12LTA seemed smoother than the old B102 which I used to make a fake "Druid" - here's 12LTA vs the old B102 outdoors with each in an Aristocrat. The Aristocrat had a rear vent to fire in a corner so tuning would be a bit lower with it mounted into a corner. I still wish Eminence had smacked another 16oz of motor on 12LT - it lacks slam. The new B102 may be improved but their graph doesn't indicate much extension. (I've got one somewhere in my pile for 2-way K-coupler evaluation) - If Zilla can't take that dustcap in 12LTA then he'd really revolt with the old B102 flat dustcap
fwiw I briefly ran 12LTA with cheap 21" woofers on open baffles - probably a tossup vs Beta12cx on same baffle. The coax had the advantage
of no noticeable spatial shift on harmonics vs a jump from 12LTA to helper tweeter (probably had my helper too far away)
btw - over at the other fullrange forum, Ron Brady ran a car silk-come tweeter on a piece of pvc to act as phase-plug on his 12LTs
loved the kup tweeter ! - fake Druids were fun too
fwiw I briefly ran 12LTA with cheap 21" woofers on open baffles - probably a tossup vs Beta12cx on same baffle. The coax had the advantage
of no noticeable spatial shift on harmonics vs a jump from 12LTA to helper tweeter (probably had my helper too far away)
btw - over at the other fullrange forum, Ron Brady ran a car silk-come tweeter on a piece of pvc to act as phase-plug on his 12LTs
loved the kup tweeter ! - fake Druids were fun too
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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I like the idea of adding a 15" woofer to supplement the bottom end. I could keep the 2 LTAs as they are and let the extra woofer fire out the side of the baffle. I have an ss amp and active cross over I could dedicate to the purpose. In my limited experience I have not liked using multiple amps except for woofer duty. Although the sound has improved somewhat as these drivers run in, I don't think that they will be useable without some attenuation of the upper midrange. Probably time for me to invest in some measuring tools and software....
As Andrew said, your understanding is correct.
However, there are lots of ways to skin the cat.
If you were planning on making an active four way, then you need 4 amp channels per side and either multiple MinDSPs or the new 8 channel beastie.
If you were planning a passive four way, you could design a passive crossover for maximum transition smoothness, and then use a single MiniDSP to flatten out the bumps. This would save you amplifier power which is at a premium in your system I guess.
You could also go half way and use your existing amp for the top 3 drivers, and cross over to an active sub using the MiniDSP.
Lots of possibilities. You CAN just use the MiniDSP as a DSP EQ, without any crossover at all, if you want.
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