I think with that kind of music you will need a waw, most of those music has a strong bass that most fullrange not can do. I don't know WAW kits that are sold yet as this is not so much build.
But on the other hand, my own design Mark Audio CHN110 MLTL does play dub (even more demanding for bass) rather well on low and medium volume, in that sense that i don't feel the need to switch to my waw for those. It's only on very loud session that the waw setup is needed. I used a Mark Audio Alpair 10.3/Scanspeak 26W8534G00 in sealed boxes as waw. But i don't have plans yet (i suck at cad drawing), and certainly no flatpacks. I thought Dave (Planet10) got plans of his above that you can ask. There is also an interesting design by XRK971 that is very documented (but again no flatpack or kit): 10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST / WAW Ref Monitor
I thought Scott got a very similar MLTL as mine design for that CHN110 driver i mentioned and for many others that also give good bass on low power (ask him). If you can find a carpenter to build the cabinet for you, you can still do it. Your budget could allow to pay for that as Mark Audio drivers are not that expensive, and you don't need a crossover or a second or third driver for this.
With this you may have to get a lower power amp to be comfortable (on the volume knop). My 32w tube amp is already way to powerfull for this MLTL in a 5x3.5x2.5m (yes i live in the metric world) room. That should be something like double the size of yours.
If you want a bookshelf, you will loose some bass, but there are designs that still give a lot. My design used in my homeoffice goes to F3 of 45Hz clean with a Mark Audio Alpair 10.3M driver, and that is lower than many multiway bookshelfs. Dave and Scott can you also give other plans (but no kits i thought). Off this bookshelf a friend made a cad drawing so that i can give you. But this was made to let the wood be cut with a CNC, and i guess you (or your carpenter) will also need a CNC machine to cut those... But to get an id you can still look at it. And it's free to use.
But on the other hand, my own design Mark Audio CHN110 MLTL does play dub (even more demanding for bass) rather well on low and medium volume, in that sense that i don't feel the need to switch to my waw for those. It's only on very loud session that the waw setup is needed. I used a Mark Audio Alpair 10.3/Scanspeak 26W8534G00 in sealed boxes as waw. But i don't have plans yet (i suck at cad drawing), and certainly no flatpacks. I thought Dave (Planet10) got plans of his above that you can ask. There is also an interesting design by XRK971 that is very documented (but again no flatpack or kit): 10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST / WAW Ref Monitor
I thought Scott got a very similar MLTL as mine design for that CHN110 driver i mentioned and for many others that also give good bass on low power (ask him). If you can find a carpenter to build the cabinet for you, you can still do it. Your budget could allow to pay for that as Mark Audio drivers are not that expensive, and you don't need a crossover or a second or third driver for this.
With this you may have to get a lower power amp to be comfortable (on the volume knop). My 32w tube amp is already way to powerfull for this MLTL in a 5x3.5x2.5m (yes i live in the metric world) room. That should be something like double the size of yours.
If you want a bookshelf, you will loose some bass, but there are designs that still give a lot. My design used in my homeoffice goes to F3 of 45Hz clean with a Mark Audio Alpair 10.3M driver, and that is lower than many multiway bookshelfs. Dave and Scott can you also give other plans (but no kits i thought). Off this bookshelf a friend made a cad drawing so that i can give you. But this was made to let the wood be cut with a CNC, and i guess you (or your carpenter) will also need a CNC machine to cut those... But to get an id you can still look at it. And it's free to use.
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Bob has churned out a couple Halycon WAW, i undersnd teh woofers are NLA. He has the drawings for both of our WAW, and i hope we will see some new WAW with the SEAS A26 as helper from the work i am doing to reimagine rhe A26 and explore other enclosure options.
dave
dave
The mark audio drivers in the mar-ken trap boxes are great sounding speakers bass down to 40 -3db clean to 45 on stands. Play pretty loud but at max (ear hurt level ) volume will bottom out. That may be my fault I may not have enough clearance behind the driver. I do not know if with electronic music will have the bass slam you are looking for. That being said the imaging sound stage are very good.the sound is very clean and the fr is quite good. The ones I build are Mar-Ken10.3T stand mounted speaker.
I am not meaning to steal the thread and would like ask Dave a question. and dont want to start a new thread
Dave I have a quick question I followed your link to scottmooses thread and saw a stand mount speaker with two drivers. Can I add a second driver to the marken 10,3T the reason is when I built them I glued the baffle upside down on one of the speakers. the sound is the same but I would like them to match. adding a couple of drivers would be easier than building a new box. I am using the metal drivers. Or would it affect the sound. thank you
I am not meaning to steal the thread and would like ask Dave a question. and dont want to start a new thread
Dave I have a quick question I followed your link to scottmooses thread and saw a stand mount speaker with two drivers. Can I add a second driver to the marken 10,3T the reason is when I built them I glued the baffle upside down on one of the speakers. the sound is the same but I would like them to match. adding a couple of drivers would be easier than building a new box. I am using the metal drivers. Or would it affect the sound. thank you
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There are so many options out there, it's pretty overwhelming sometimes! You mention limited info provided on my part-- is there anything I can add that would help narrow the choices further? If it helps, I'd prefer to not reinvent the wheel-- if there is a tried and true design (like the Pensils you've mentioned) then I'm happy to stick with something like those 🙂
My projector screen brackets are adjustable, with a maximum of approximately 22.5" of screen clearance from the wall. From where I sit, a perfect speaker toe-in, aimed behind my head, is 20 degrees. A 16.5"x12" length speaker cabinet (Pensil 12 for this example) at 20 degrees is about 20" from the wall on the longest side, which gives ~2.5 inches of movement from the wall, so I think 16.5" is the maximum allowance for a cabinet depth (assuming a 12" width). I'm not sure what these measurements do for clarifying how large of a speaker design I can accomodate in my living room, but I figure it would help a bit 🙂
Yes. A 2 driver version is doable, it was done for A10 and A10.2, have to chack my drawings to see if i have done or started a twin. CGR? Rectangle? Trapezoid?
The bottom of these is filled with sand.
dave
The bottom of these is filled with sand.
dave
Thank you Dave these are the Mar-Ken10.3T stand mounted speaker.trapezoid on the planset it is page 66 should I follow the filter options for two drivers in the planset? thank you again. I have been doing more critical listening and they really are quite remarkable.
There's a new woofer from SBA that replaces the original ones that became NLA.
So the design remains "current" and DIYers can build Halcyons.
Thank you Dave lets hold up on that. I wanted to know if it could be done I am debating a new cabinet vs buying two more drivers. Is there any other benefit like less excursion? I wont be able to do any woodworking for several weeks. (broken ankle) thank you for responding now that I know it is possible I have more options. thanks again
Same LF response, 2 cones at low frequencies, 3 ways to wire with 3 different compromises.
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloads/Dual-Driver-Wiring.pdf
A Castle is possible which also has appeal.
dave
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloads/Dual-Driver-Wiring.pdf
A Castle is possible which also has appeal.
dave
Dear Xovaan,
More I listen to Vök, more I like it.
I like the fantasitic and mellow sound.
I think, can you get the bass you need with 5" driver?
So I recorded with 5" full-range(MAOP10), SMSL amp(SA-S1) and Topping DAC(E30).
With 12watt power, I can get loud sound.
"Vok-Adrift" played by MarkAudio MAOP10 + SMSL SA-S1 , and recorded at 2.5meter(8.2ft) away. - YouTube
More I listen to Vök, more I like it.
I like the fantasitic and mellow sound.
I think, can you get the bass you need with 5" driver?
So I recorded with 5" full-range(MAOP10), SMSL amp(SA-S1) and Topping DAC(E30).
With 12watt power, I can get loud sound.
"Vok-Adrift" played by MarkAudio MAOP10 + SMSL SA-S1 , and recorded at 2.5meter(8.2ft) away. - YouTube
Wow, that sounds really good! I'm glad you're enjoying the song as well 🙂
Currently, my speakers are the AviaTrix MTM, which uses 5.25" drivers, seen here: AviaTrix-RST Sealed MTM Speaker Kit Pair with Knock-Down Cabinets
Do you think the MAP10 would have more punch? Or would the 6.5" drivers offer more?
Currently, my speakers are the AviaTrix MTM, which uses 5.25" drivers, seen here: AviaTrix-RST Sealed MTM Speaker Kit Pair with Knock-Down Cabinets
Do you think the MAP10 would have more punch? Or would the 6.5" drivers offer more?
Do not forget that the enclosure plays a large role.
And it terms of moving air you have to look at the swept volume, not the cone area.
Something like the FHXL has LF gain so the driver does not have to work as hard at LF.
dave
And it terms of moving air you have to look at the swept volume, not the cone area.
Something like the FHXL has LF gain so the driver does not have to work as hard at LF.
dave
I can second that, some box designs emphase the bass so that even a small driver (on low volume) can give a lot. Especially horn and TL type of speakers are good at that. Combine that with a driver that has some bass from itself (low enough FS) and enough xmax and you will be surprised (i was) how much bass you can get out of a 5 or 6" driver in the right cabinet.
Dear Xovaan,
MarkAudio's 5 ”driver has the strong punching power, unless it is put in a small box or uses a lot of sound absorbing material.
Looking at AviaTrix MTM's woofer spec(Dayton ND140-8),I think that the punching power is also weak because the driving force is weak.
And, if it is an ordinary sealed box, the punching force will be weak.
MarkAudio's 5 ”driver has the strong punching power, unless it is put in a small box or uses a lot of sound absorbing material.
Looking at AviaTrix MTM's woofer spec(Dayton ND140-8),I think that the punching power is also weak because the driving force is weak.
And, if it is an ordinary sealed box, the punching force will be weak.
Ah, that makes total sense with regard to bass presence by cabinet design. Appreciate all the information-- y'all are selling me on these Mark Audio drivers for sure 🙂
The MAOP series looks pretty cool and that video you posted of the Vok song with the MAOP 10 packs a serious punch. Markaudio MAOP 11 Full Range Speaker Driver | KJF Audio it says here that the MAOP 11 is a direct drop-in replacement/upgrade to the Alpair 11ms, the bigger brother to the 10. Cost aside, and probably not answerable given how many drivers are out there, but how would the MAOP 11 compare to the Alpair 11ms? Because even if they sound similarly, at very least they're really really pretty 😱
The Pensil design with the MAOP 11 drivers seems like it's calling me haha
The MAOP series looks pretty cool and that video you posted of the Vok song with the MAOP 10 packs a serious punch. Markaudio MAOP 11 Full Range Speaker Driver | KJF Audio it says here that the MAOP 11 is a direct drop-in replacement/upgrade to the Alpair 11ms, the bigger brother to the 10. Cost aside, and probably not answerable given how many drivers are out there, but how would the MAOP 11 compare to the Alpair 11ms? Because even if they sound similarly, at very least they're really really pretty 😱
The Pensil design with the MAOP 11 drivers seems like it's calling me haha
Dear Xovaan,
MAOP11 and Alpair11MS are in the same direction in terms of sound quality.
I think your choice will change depending on whether you focus on quality or cost.
Sound Quarity
MAOP10 > MAOP11 > Alpair11MS > Alpair10.3 > CHR-90
(The sound quality is not different as the price difference)
Cost Paformance
Alpair10.3 > CHR-90 > Alpair11MS > MAOP10 > MAOP11
(The cone area is different, but the amount of bass is about the same )
I think Pensil10 and Pensil11 are good choices.
MAOP11 and Alpair11MS are in the same direction in terms of sound quality.
I think your choice will change depending on whether you focus on quality or cost.
Sound Quarity
MAOP10 > MAOP11 > Alpair11MS > Alpair10.3 > CHR-90
(The sound quality is not different as the price difference)
Cost Paformance
Alpair10.3 > CHR-90 > Alpair11MS > MAOP10 > MAOP11
(The cone area is different, but the amount of bass is about the same )
I think Pensil10 and Pensil11 are good choices.