efficiency ideally 97db but can live with 93db.
I use 12BR70 and want to improve on that driver.
what are considered the best "musical" 12" for use in big 2-ways setup?
I use 12BR70 and want to improve on that driver.
what are considered the best "musical" 12" for use in big 2-ways setup?
If you don’t mind me asking, what is it you don‘t like about the 12br70 ? was thinking about buying a pair for a three way build.
I based my search on basically these criteria:
Low mms - 40-50g or less
Low voice coil overhang, e.g. 12-13mm VC height vs 8mm gap height (OR underhung)
Non-conductive VC former, e.g. polyimide or glass fibre.
Low inductance, e.g. for a nominal 8 ohm / 5.5 DCR, impedance doesn't reach 20 ohm until 4 kHz or higher (for a basic design without shorting rings.* )
Low end of the power range. This was a good filter for finding woofers with small, light voice coils and low-mass cones.
Workable T-S parameters. E.g. the Eminence Alpha 12 looked like a strong contender, but box sims suggested that it would need an infinite baffle and/or lots of EQ.
And then, far down the list with least order of importance, frequency response not too ragged.
*I'd already had positive results reducing the mid-range harshness of woofers by adding series resistance, so my next step is an amplifier with high output resistance already built in. In my case I didn't want to risk potentially messing things up with a woofer that already had shorting rings, but that's not to say they won't work.
My search led me to brands like Eminence, FaitalPRO, Lavoce, Celestion and a couple of others. Bass guitar woofers could also be good: unlike electric guitars they generally don't use the speaker for distortion effects, and have strong requirements for a clear midrange.
Low mms - 40-50g or less
Low voice coil overhang, e.g. 12-13mm VC height vs 8mm gap height (OR underhung)
Non-conductive VC former, e.g. polyimide or glass fibre.
Low inductance, e.g. for a nominal 8 ohm / 5.5 DCR, impedance doesn't reach 20 ohm until 4 kHz or higher (for a basic design without shorting rings.* )
Low end of the power range. This was a good filter for finding woofers with small, light voice coils and low-mass cones.
Workable T-S parameters. E.g. the Eminence Alpha 12 looked like a strong contender, but box sims suggested that it would need an infinite baffle and/or lots of EQ.
And then, far down the list with least order of importance, frequency response not too ragged.
*I'd already had positive results reducing the mid-range harshness of woofers by adding series resistance, so my next step is an amplifier with high output resistance already built in. In my case I didn't want to risk potentially messing things up with a woofer that already had shorting rings, but that's not to say they won't work.
My search led me to brands like Eminence, FaitalPRO, Lavoce, Celestion and a couple of others. Bass guitar woofers could also be good: unlike electric guitars they generally don't use the speaker for distortion effects, and have strong requirements for a clear midrange.
Consensus, on diyaudio.com??? I don’t think that’s ever happened on any topic ;-)
YKY, you are looking for problems by askin' this. And you are englued into your first order philosophy as well. Notice you do not specify what is your low pass needs too ! Are you looking for a 40 hz to 1400 hz 12" and believe it is the best trade off ?
You already know the answr between the B&C, Faitals, etc drivers. You already know the trade off about the size of its diameter and pistonic behavior and off axis response..
A 12" climbing so high is asking for trouble. While you migth want by design some wanted loss off axis upon the pistonic range of a 12" (400 hz to 600 hz acording the cone shape), a single unit will have hard time to make it all. low mms better towards upper frequencies and heavier cones better for lower freqencies.
You perhaps need to split the problem with a 15" plus a 10" or a 8" ? (aka : are filters the Evil ?)
Simpliest answer : 12PR320 (that's what I'm going to do but knowing it is a trade off between not so good low end and not so good high end. At least one of the good 12" trade off driver there. Of course not the only one.)
What's your trade offs ? Size of cabinet? Monney ? Ways numbers ?
So, you migth try there the 12PR320 or close in your scenario if a 12 db slope forr instance.
You already know the answr between the B&C, Faitals, etc drivers. You already know the trade off about the size of its diameter and pistonic behavior and off axis response..
A 12" climbing so high is asking for trouble. While you migth want by design some wanted loss off axis upon the pistonic range of a 12" (400 hz to 600 hz acording the cone shape), a single unit will have hard time to make it all. low mms better towards upper frequencies and heavier cones better for lower freqencies.
You perhaps need to split the problem with a 15" plus a 10" or a 8" ? (aka : are filters the Evil ?)
Simpliest answer : 12PR320 (that's what I'm going to do but knowing it is a trade off between not so good low end and not so good high end. At least one of the good 12" trade off driver there. Of course not the only one.)
What's your trade offs ? Size of cabinet? Monney ? Ways numbers ?
So, you migth try there the 12PR320 or close in your scenario if a 12 db slope forr instance.
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F3 = 40 hz and flat to that high is a toughie.................
I like the jbl 2206h but you will be -9db @ 50hz, add some eq (I do).
Qts .3 and Fs 50hz make for not much low bass.
Another option is the eminence delta pro 12a (that I want to make something with) with its slightly climbing response but no sharp resonant spikes in the hf.
2 in 5ft3 make 50hz tuning for F3 near 55hz...........
Bagby preferred it for rock and roll (in the diysound group tempest fusion) to a shorting ringed drivers that had measurabled lower distortion.
I like the jbl 2206h but you will be -9db @ 50hz, add some eq (I do).
Qts .3 and Fs 50hz make for not much low bass.
Another option is the eminence delta pro 12a (that I want to make something with) with its slightly climbing response but no sharp resonant spikes in the hf.
2 in 5ft3 make 50hz tuning for F3 near 55hz...........
Bagby preferred it for rock and roll (in the diysound group tempest fusion) to a shorting ringed drivers that had measurabled lower distortion.
I already have a 3 way 15"+6.5"+ tweet, i want to try a 12" 2 -way. the idea behind a 12" is they do sound better up to 1500hz vs 15" that sounds good up to 1khz.
ill try the 12PR320
thanks!
The Eminence Delta Pro 12A, Kappalite 3012CX, 3012HO, Faital 12PR310 and 12PR300i are all nice.
The KL3012CX plays the lowest out of the bunch and takes a compression driver as a huge bonus.
The Delta Pro 12A and KL3012HO are very similar, just lower sensitivity on the Delta Pro 12A. Both need alot of BSC.
The Faital 12PR310 is smoother and cheaper than the 12PR300.
The KL3012CX plays the lowest out of the bunch and takes a compression driver as a huge bonus.
The Delta Pro 12A and KL3012HO are very similar, just lower sensitivity on the Delta Pro 12A. Both need alot of BSC.
The Faital 12PR310 is smoother and cheaper than the 12PR300.