FG: Don't you find them a little "short" (weak) regarding LF (deepness, slam...) ?
I find FW globally more neutral even if less airy and detailed.
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+1.
The zinggy highs and overall clinical sound have to be compensated with an combo...
IMHO:
FC are very very neutral; but kinda noisy/dirty (would have been "perfect" if not...)
FR a bit recessed (lacks "air", bass deepness...)
---
Guys, what cap is king regarding (real) bass quality: Deepness, power/energy/control, kick/slam/punch, "air"... (all that with no upper bass bump/boom) ?
Did not find perfection (dream of a clean FC): Had to combo...( SinGun way)
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Yes: "glassy"= clean/clear/straight but lacks body, micro details/texture (>emotion) >> strange/unreal.
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FG a little slow.
FC can sound very realistic on brass instruments but not for me cause it's too
forward sounding at least for my ML speakers & perhaps room as well.
Elna Cerafine in parallel with KZ makes a very good combi set back though is it takes away some bass but it has a very transparent & refine sound. In short you got to tweak elswhere to improve bass like main PS caps
and sounds great in dacs, digital... must be living with others caps for the good equilibrium. For me one of the best cap for smoothing or main power tank... And yes sometimes just too much on the Light side according the circuitry or setup... about the need to play with a lot of caps 
for the last refinments of devices...
for the last refinments of devices...Does anyone have measurements to show how the sound is affected by glassy sound, zinggy highs, or clinical sound, or a way to actually quantify it in real terms for us dumb people?
I am actually serious. For high current/power applications I choose capacitors that are suitable based on current rating, operating temperature, ESR required for the application etc.
But in everything else I shove Panny FC's and FR's and sometimes Rubycon's/Nichicon's in everything I touch, depending what fits in the space based on capacitance, voltage rating, because they work well and last a long time. If I see a case size that is larger I will choose the largest part that fits (because the increase in internal surface area should be better).
However I would like to know how you can quantify these other improvements in a meaningful way.
I am actually serious. For high current/power applications I choose capacitors that are suitable based on current rating, operating temperature, ESR required for the application etc.
But in everything else I shove Panny FC's and FR's and sometimes Rubycon's/Nichicon's in everything I touch, depending what fits in the space based on capacitance, voltage rating, because they work well and last a long time. If I see a case size that is larger I will choose the largest part that fits (because the increase in internal surface area should be better).
However I would like to know how you can quantify these other improvements in a meaningful way.
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Humble Homemade Hifi - Cap Test
Personally I have found sound differences with different capacitors in the signal path.
But, I don't have that much experience to be and accept by reports like the one attached.
Why is it difficult for me to accept whether to doubt personal opinions of capacitor sound?
Because human beings do not have auditory memory.
Once I made a change from the original Pio of a vintage JBL loudspeaker for Clarity Cap, my perception was that there was drier bass and more detail with CP.
But I made a very serious mistake in the upgrade.
I did the mod for the two boxes at the same time and then I dedicated myself to trying to remember what the sound was like before, with the original PIO.
You should have performed an A / B comparison to hear differences with a true degree of certainty ...
So, how can these reports or the opinions of those who think here about different brands be so conclusive?
Snake oil? , no ! but it looks a lot like ...
Personally I have found sound differences with different capacitors in the signal path.
But, I don't have that much experience to be and accept by reports like the one attached.
Why is it difficult for me to accept whether to doubt personal opinions of capacitor sound?
Because human beings do not have auditory memory.
Once I made a change from the original Pio of a vintage JBL loudspeaker for Clarity Cap, my perception was that there was drier bass and more detail with CP.
But I made a very serious mistake in the upgrade.
I did the mod for the two boxes at the same time and then I dedicated myself to trying to remember what the sound was like before, with the original PIO.
You should have performed an A / B comparison to hear differences with a true degree of certainty ...
So, how can these reports or the opinions of those who think here about different brands be so conclusive?
Snake oil? , no ! but it looks a lot like ...
According to Clarity Cap the "trick" is that their products have a minimum resonance point, see the attachment and the graphic.
ESA polypropylene audio capacitor from ClarityCap
ESA polypropylene audio capacitor from ClarityCap
Attachments
Humble Homemade Hifi - Cap Test
Have you read this? Just talk about the graph you question
" In the past capacitors were just capacitors and sound quality was determined by the dialectric material with polypropylene considered by many as "the best" seeing as this type of capacitor had the lowest losses. But technology of the 21st century has brought us new measuring techniques and insights and there seems to be more to it. We can now measure things that were not possible a few years ago. In a nut-shell: microphony is the keyword - the mechanical resonance, a key feature of audio capacitors. This is a physical deformation of the capacitor plates which occurs as a result of the audio signal passing through the component, in some ways like how an electrostatic speaker works. This resonance is dependent on the size, shape, materials and manufacturing parameters of the capacitors. This effect has been known about for years as it plays a part in the impulse strength of capacitors. However, the effect has never been considered to be significant enough to affect a hi-fi system's audio reproduction due to the low energy involved. For more indepth information read the Clarity Cap white paper on mechanical resonances inside capacitors. Another interesting article was written by Martin Colloms back in 1985 in which he tested several capacitors on their sonic differences. Also look at the equivalent circuit diagram of a capacitor at the top of this page, this also explains a lot. A capacitor is more than just capacitance C! "
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Nobody ever did a serious quantification based on measurable numbers. Otherwise this ridicoulous caps rolling would have ended decades ago
40 years of sound experience. Thousand hours hot swapping caps. Cap serie sounding the same way everytime everywhere. In the end, i know it has its sound, and take that into account, even if no common measured characteristic can help (same thing with resistors, coils, beads...)
I am grateful to those who share their experience of it. When you know a little, you recognize those who have a good hearing and thank them for guiding you among the "sound" of parts, saving you time and money.
People who laugh at it should just ignore it.
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I think I am not wrong if I say that capacitors do not have any sound by themselves, if they are not coupled to a system. There will be a synergy for or against when coupling them with a cabinet, its speakers, type of crossover network, etc.
My point is that those who report like
Humble Homemade Hifi, they should inform the systems used for their evaluations, since measurements are not important here, but "sonic signatures" do.
Did you do your evaluations with "neutral" studio monitors? I was recently in a TV studio, they were monitoring the sound with a pair of (modern) two-way Tannoys, I heard that sound and I said to myself, these guys didn't know the classic Yamaha NS-10!
Those hundreds of capacitors were always tested with the same reproduction media? Which were ?
And those media - systems - were so neutral-linear that they did not add or subtract anything to the performance of the caps?
Again, it is not snake oil, but it must be handled with a more empirical criterion, it seems to me.
I do not question the experience, or the seriousness or capacity of anyone, just curiosity.
I still have vintage JBLs and the Pio capacitors in a drawer.
Someday I will test correctly and test the modified cabinet and the other as it was originally.
By the way, almost 40 years have passed and they still have a tolerance margin of 1%, that speaks very well of the quality of the components from those years.
" To meet JB L production
tolerances, network components must check out
withi n plus or minus 1 % of the established design
value."
http://www.cieri.net/Documenti/JBL/...iding Network - Instruction Manual OM22-3.pdf
I respect the knowledge of others, I invested good money in the best capacitors that my budget allowed me when I built my Diy cabinets,according to the designer's recommendations.
(Jantzen in this case)
My point is that those who report like
Humble Homemade Hifi, they should inform the systems used for their evaluations, since measurements are not important here, but "sonic signatures" do.
Did you do your evaluations with "neutral" studio monitors? I was recently in a TV studio, they were monitoring the sound with a pair of (modern) two-way Tannoys, I heard that sound and I said to myself, these guys didn't know the classic Yamaha NS-10!
Those hundreds of capacitors were always tested with the same reproduction media? Which were ?
And those media - systems - were so neutral-linear that they did not add or subtract anything to the performance of the caps?
Again, it is not snake oil, but it must be handled with a more empirical criterion, it seems to me.
I do not question the experience, or the seriousness or capacity of anyone, just curiosity.
I still have vintage JBLs and the Pio capacitors in a drawer.
Someday I will test correctly and test the modified cabinet and the other as it was originally.
By the way, almost 40 years have passed and they still have a tolerance margin of 1%, that speaks very well of the quality of the components from those years.
" To meet JB L production
tolerances, network components must check out
withi n plus or minus 1 % of the established design
value."
http://www.cieri.net/Documenti/JBL/...iding Network - Instruction Manual OM22-3.pdf
I respect the knowledge of others, I invested good money in the best capacitors that my budget allowed me when I built my Diy cabinets,according to the designer's recommendations.
(Jantzen in this case)
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Excuse me for my comment, I think many here are all caught up in looking at specs.
Honestly it does not tell you how it would sound. Yes many will say that it's hog wash but if you are among guys like us who just have that curiosity to keep testing, I can assure you that you'll here a difference in sound regardless of it being boutique or run of the mill caps. This I'm afraid will not show up in measurements as same caps in different location or circuits will sound different. There's also a habit of diyers looking for ripple data, low esr etc. My findings,don't hope that low ripple will solve all the issues, why cause if caps are really good at killing ripples then there's no need for clc or crc etc.
As for low esr, it's not the defacto standard to look at for sound. BG caps that I measured had far higher esr then elnas , nichicons & yet they're famous for sounding good. Frankly we all do not know the innards of the actual type of materials used in the manufacturing of these caps so for me I'm just looking for what sounds good to the equipment that I build. This thread lasted so long cause there's just too many naysayers who would keep on arguing. Proof of the pudding is to really to conduct testing yourself.
I always say audio tweaking is just like cooking, you've got to use the right combination of ingredients to make the food taste good, in audio means a mix of different brand of caps etc to create the senergy. How to do this well like caps, you just have to keep on testing & listen, soon you'll have a data in you head on the sound signature of each brand/types of caps.
Cheers
Honestly it does not tell you how it would sound. Yes many will say that it's hog wash but if you are among guys like us who just have that curiosity to keep testing, I can assure you that you'll here a difference in sound regardless of it being boutique or run of the mill caps. This I'm afraid will not show up in measurements as same caps in different location or circuits will sound different. There's also a habit of diyers looking for ripple data, low esr etc. My findings,don't hope that low ripple will solve all the issues, why cause if caps are really good at killing ripples then there's no need for clc or crc etc.
As for low esr, it's not the defacto standard to look at for sound. BG caps that I measured had far higher esr then elnas , nichicons & yet they're famous for sounding good. Frankly we all do not know the innards of the actual type of materials used in the manufacturing of these caps so for me I'm just looking for what sounds good to the equipment that I build. This thread lasted so long cause there's just too many naysayers who would keep on arguing. Proof of the pudding is to really to conduct testing yourself.
I always say audio tweaking is just like cooking, you've got to use the right combination of ingredients to make the food taste good, in audio means a mix of different brand of caps etc to create the senergy. How to do this well like caps, you just have to keep on testing & listen, soon you'll have a data in you head on the sound signature of each brand/types of caps.
Cheers
Hi Zung,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. It's very hard to recommend cause every circuit will sound different. As mentioned one needs to play with components be it caps or resistors etc get to know them well & it will give you a better head start in your search for the sound that your looking for. Me I always will test just 1 location each time with many components to hear the changes that it makes be it good or bad.
One thing that I can recommend is to clean up as much as one can from the root. Generally it will include an diy AC Filter, transformer, main Ps caps. I never use toroids, never like it's sound since the day I started diy & strangely it's in recent yrs that it's been discovered to be a wideband device which off course is no good for audio. Whenever possible you should try out CLC or CRC to help clean up the supply lines on the main PS caps, this will help lots.
Cheers
Thanks for the vote of confidence. It's very hard to recommend cause every circuit will sound different. As mentioned one needs to play with components be it caps or resistors etc get to know them well & it will give you a better head start in your search for the sound that your looking for. Me I always will test just 1 location each time with many components to hear the changes that it makes be it good or bad.
One thing that I can recommend is to clean up as much as one can from the root. Generally it will include an diy AC Filter, transformer, main Ps caps. I never use toroids, never like it's sound since the day I started diy & strangely it's in recent yrs that it's been discovered to be a wideband device which off course is no good for audio. Whenever possible you should try out CLC or CRC to help clean up the supply lines on the main PS caps, this will help lots.
Cheers
The technical whys are to be primarily asked to be explained by major manufacturers I guess. Some claim to listen and tweak their capacitors then officially characterize some of their series good for "audio application". Pure marketing? Maybe. Or there is something they do actually notice?
Nippon Chemi-Con Corporation / Nippon Chemi-Con's capacitor designed exclusively for audio application
Aluminum electrolytic capacitors for audio applications | ELNA
Nichicon Audio Capacitors
Nippon Chemi-Con Corporation / Nippon Chemi-Con's capacitor designed exclusively for audio application
Aluminum electrolytic capacitors for audio applications | ELNA
Nichicon Audio Capacitors